Commons talk:File renaming/Archive/2020

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Add a section about the changing extensions

I'm a new file mover. The script caught me by surprise as it suggested me to rename an ogg to oga. After some digging I realised it's intended and not a bug. As such, I suggest a section explaining lines 1235 to 1251 of special:permalink/377175130 be added.

Here's a draft from me.

By design, Move & Replace suggests the following fixes of file extensions, which file movers should follow:

  1. converting to lowercase
  2. replacing jpeg with jpg
  3. replacing midi with mid
  4. replacing ogg (audio files) with oga
  5. replacing ogg (video files) with ogv

What do you think?--Roy17 (talk) 02:16, 3 January 2020 (UTC)

Names that are absurdly long

For example:
File:President Barack Obama and First Lady Michelle Obama greet 106-Year-Old Virginia McLaurin during a photo line in the Blue Room of the White House prior to a reception celebrating African American History Month, Feb. 18, 2016.jpg

This is literally just the description of the photo and can get rather confusing if this file is ever used in articles. IDK, maybe this is just a me problem. –MJL ‐Talk‐☖ 20:29, 4 January 2020 (UTC)

  • Probably this doesn't meet any of file renaming criteria, maybe we could create redirects for long name files if it is goona be in use. -- CptViraj (📧) 02:31, 5 January 2020 (UTC)
  • It would seem reasonable to make some naming criteria related to conciseness. File names really just need to be unique and meaningful, not really exhaustively descriptive. GMGtalk 02:44, 5 January 2020 (UTC)
    • Not sure it's the case here, but often the long ones are bots uploading files, since filenames do need to be unique and meaningful -- it's hard to automate that stuff, so often the first sentence is used as a filename. The filenames don't appear in articles -- just wiki text. Prefer shorter ones of course, but not sure long names are that big a problem. Carl Lindberg (talk) 04:50, 5 January 2020 (UTC)
      • Presumably they would cause some small added unnecessary burden on those with limited internet access, no? And they would make wiki markup more unwieldy regardless. GMGtalk 05:20, 5 January 2020 (UTC)
        • Yeah, and they do make external URLs more of a pain as well (other sites linking directly to the Commons image). On the other hand, it's that latter use case which breaks when files get renamed, which is the main reason to avoid renames when possible. I would say if you are going to rename anyways, try to make such names much shorter, because I would agree they are not really desirable. On whether it's worth renaming for that reason alone, I'm not as sure. Carl Lindberg (talk) 20:33, 16 January 2020 (UTC)

Obvious typo

"To correct obvious errors in filenames, including misspelled proper nouns, incorrect dates, and misidentified objects or organisms."

What about File:A view of the evening cloudy sky from thr ground in Kotadi.jpg? Seems like policy doesn't allow renaming to the ground? - Alexis Jazz ping plz 17:02, 24 November 2019 (UTC)

It looks to be eligible for renaming per criterion 3 IMHO. "thr" seems pretty obvious error to me. Masum Reza📞 17:19, 24 November 2019 (UTC)
But it goes on to specify misspelled proper nouns. So I'm not sure. - Alexis Jazz ping plz 05:10, 25 November 2019 (UTC)
"Including" != "Only those errors" Agathoclea (talk) 10:26, 26 November 2019 (UTC)
So the typical phrase "including, but not limited to," could well replace "including" in this instance?? Consider this a Proposal S a g a C i t y (talk) 13:53, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

Which files should not be renamed #2

CHANGE APPLIED:

4 supports, no oppose/neutral; has been open for 8 days. Closed as successful; I applied the change here. Ahmadtalk 18:11, 24 January 2020 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

#2 in this section states:

"Files should NOT be renamed only because the filename is not English..."

Does this only apply if someone requests a file to be moved from another language to English? I recently ran into an example of a user requesting a file to be moved from English to Russian, which I declined (feel free to revert if I was wrong). - ZLEA T\C 14:33, 16 January 2020 (UTC)

I think it applies to other similar cases as well. This criterion aims to prevent translate-only renames, so I think it's a good idea to change it so that it can literally include all translation-only renames, not just x-to-en renames. Ahmadtalk 15:12, 16 January 2020 (UTC)
I agree. As Commons is a multi-language project, files can be named in any language, no matter what the file depicts/contains. So a file depicting something in Ukraine is fine to be named in English (as would be a file depicting something in the US being named in Ukrainian). Sebari – aka Srittau (talk) 18:12, 16 January 2020 (UTC)
Ahmad252 Srittau I propose that the wording be changed to:
"Files should NOT be renamed only because the filename is not in your language and/or is not correctly capitalized. Remember, Commons is a multilingual project, so there's no reason to favor one language over another."
to avoid confusion. - ZLEA T\C 19:51, 16 January 2020 (UTC)
 Support Sebari – aka Srittau (talk) 20:19, 16 January 2020 (UTC)
General support, but I think it's better to change the first part to something like "Files should NOT be renamed only to translate the filename to another language and/or because the filename is not correctly capitalized." This way, we'll make it less personal (it isn't necessarily the file mover/admin's language, it can be a request made by someone else). The rest is fine with me and I support it. Ahmadtalk 20:55, 16 January 2020 (UTC)
 Support, as per Ahmad. Lotje (talk) 13:17, 17 January 2020 (UTC)
@Srittau and ZLEA: I have made a change to ZLEA's proposal above. Do you {{Support}} my suggestion? Ahmadtalk 17:20, 23 January 2020 (UTC)
Sounds good to me. Sebari – aka Srittau (talk) 11:31, 24 January 2020 (UTC)
I support the change. - ZLEA T\C 17:45, 24 January 2020 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Obvious typo II

It should be added that changes from one plausible spelling variant to another do not fall under criterion 3, even if the spelling used in a filename is considered obsolete or incorrect by some authorities. --Abderitestatos (talk) 17:12, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

Exception to harmonize the names of a set of images so that only one part of all names differs

Would someone please add under "To harmonize the names of a set of images so that only one part of all names differs" an exception? Proposed addition is to read: "Exceptionally, if any file is heavily used elsewhere, especially if transcribed on Wikisource, then adding a redirect without very impacting renaming still indirectly harmonize the names, such as redirecting File:UN Treaty Series - vol 1.pdf to File:UNTS 1.pdf and File:UN Treaty Series - vol 221.pdf to File:United Nations Treaties and international agreements registered - Volume 221 (13 November 1955 - 30 November 1955).pdf, to grandfather still heavily used "non-standard names".--Jusjih (talk) 02:37, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

File:502 0.svg

502 0.svg

This road sign is used on hundreds of pages in many languages. I declined the renaming request because of this. Can some experienced renamers such as @~riley: please comment whether renaming this file into File:Norwegian-road-sign-502.svg would be acceptable. Thanks, Elly (talk) 21:17, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

  • Elly: This is a tricky situation. I'm not worried about it's high use on Wikimedia projects, the bot will update the links on all pages in all languages. It is important to recognize that renaming would break any hard link (hard links can't be redirected iirc) and if this image is highly used on Wikimedia, it is probable that it is well linked elsewhere offwiki. However, the name meets Criteria #2 as an ambiguous name. Aside from size, is there any difference from this file to File:Norwegian-road-sign-502.0.svg? Seems like an exact match. I wouldn't rename it considering the same sign is available under the designated name and both come up in search. ~riley (talk) 14:48, 9 June 2020 (UTC)
    • Thanks, I will keep it like it is. The name of the other file has an additional .0. The requester listed a lot of signboards for renaming to "norwegian", I executed it all exept this one.Elly (talk) 18:57, 9 June 2020 (UTC)

Category:Files with bad file names (needing expert attention)‎

When working with Category:Files with bad file names, I created Category:Files with bad file names (needing expert attention) for files which renaming is tricky or needs long-time experiences. This new category helps to avoid cluttering parent category--Estopedist1 (talk) 12:08, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

Estopedist1 Who says that the names in Category:Files with bad file names are bad and needs to be renamed? For example File:Ged mæhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.jpg. What is wrong with that name?
Does it break the system or is there just someone who think that it looks strange? (It is nominated for deletion but never mind that). --MGA73 (talk) 12:18, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
And what about File:Alise3.jpg and the other ones with similar names? Does they break something or why do they need a new name?
Will it break something if we just let them keep the name? --MGA73 (talk) 12:20, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
@MGA73: you are right, it is tricky topic. Eg name "Ged mæhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh" seems very suspicious. Name "Alise3" maybe acceptable, despite of the fact, that quite certainly this name implies to feminine name--Estopedist1 (talk) 12:42, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
@Estopedist1: "Ged" is the Danish word for "Goat" and I think the picture shows a goat. And "mæh" is the Danish way of describing the sound a goat says (bah)?. So if you want to say it is saying "baaaaaah" you could write "mæææææh". I think the correct is to repeat the vocal when you write but some repeats the last letter or all letters. But I think that all Danish users would understand "mæhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh", "mææææææææææææææææææææææææææææh" and "mmmmmmmææææææææææææhhhhhhhhhhh".
As for "Alise" it was just the first part of "Alise-Sainte-Reine". Why is that wrong? Do we have a rule that we must use full names? Would anyone demand that photos like "Clinton and Reagan talking" should be renamed to "William Jefferson Clinton and Ronald Wilson Reagan talking"? --MGA73 (talk) 12:51, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
I do not understand why file names may not sound feminine. Personally I have no problems with females. So I do not see them as a problem that we should try to eliminate. --MGA73 (talk) 12:55, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

Stop meaningless renaming of files

I just noticed that there are 101 k files in Category:Files with bad file names. And if you check the CommonsDelinker log there are rename dones non stop.

To me it looks like there is a lot of renaming done because the new name looks more pretty. In my opinion it is a waste of time to move files around. I think renaming should be kept at an absolute minimum.

I think most of the meaningless renames are done in #2 so I suggest to remove that as a valid reason to rename.

And for #4 it should only be used if the rename is needed to make it usable in templates. --MGA73 (talk) 12:40, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

@MGA73: , the name was confusing. As a matter of fact, also this file should idealiter be renamed: File:Site d'Alésia.jpg because of #2
@Lotje: It is only confusing if you think of file names as something that should describe the photo en details. I'm pretty sure that if you put the file in an article the software will not be confused and break down or show the wrong photo.
There are many names on Commons that means absolutely nothing to me. For example all files with Chinese or Arabian names. I think that they are confusing. So I could easily argue that they should be renamed. And many do not understand English so they would argue that names should be written in their language.
We have a description field that can be used to describe the photo. We have categories that can be used to categorize the photo. We can add notes to the photo to describe elements of the photo. And we also have structured data. So I really doubt that someone is really lost and have to give up because the file name was "Alise2".
I really do not understand the comment in the post before about the name was too feminine. Commons is not a dating site so if someone search for ladies/women/females and are disappointed because they get a photo that is not "a hot babe" it is not our problem.
If someone is actually is confused and report the file name we could perhaps rename it. But why look for problems if they are not actually a problem?
Example: We have Category:Women. To most people it is pretty clear what a woman is. But recently "people who menstruate" have been introduced and that have led to a lot od discussion. I find the discussion confusing and other finds it discriminating or whatever. Should we mass rename all categores and files that have terms like "man" and "woman" because someone might find it offending or confusing?
We can't make everyone happy and I do not think it helps our goal to rename files. --MGA73 (talk) 14:44, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
@MGA73: I had not read the post about the name being too feminine. And yes, you are probably right We can't make everyone happy... Lotje (talk) 14:52, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
@Lotje: Lol I thought it was the "You can't make everyone happy... you are not Nutella" :-) My point is that if we have a file and 10 or 1000 users look at it... It only takes one to rename it. --MGA73 (talk) 16:12, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

Filemover helper table

I made a table for inclusion on each maintenance cat special:permalink/419833030, so that filemovers can move between different rationales thru one click. What do you think?--Roy17 (talk) 15:39, 30 May 2020 (UTC)

@Roy17: I think we are using Category:Rename to get same info--Estopedist1 (talk) 11:34, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

Please move back to original name

This have been bugging me for a while, but I don't know if it's possible to move a file back to its original name. That has been a problem with route icons for Manila rapid transit line route boxes for WV use, and the files in question are:

Can someone follow those up?--TagaSanPedroAko (Talk) 19:22, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

@TagaSanPedroAko: How many files are used in total in the templates. Is it just those 3? --MGA73 (talk) 13:17, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

Just those three. TagaSanPedroAko (Talk) 08:41, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

@TagaSanPedroAko: I checked and it should work. I picked a random page and it worked fine with both the old and the new name. Can you give us an example on where it is not working? --MGA73 (talk) 09:12, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

jpeg to jpg

I'd like to request the renaming File:Dervla_Murphy_Iran_1963_A.jpeg from jpeg to jpg, for consistency with other images in the collection. But the existing tools don't consider this a new name. Is there another way of requesting the move? U+003F? 19:34, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

OK user:Bjh21 solved this problem--Estopedist1 (talk) 21:17, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
Please could you do the same with renaming File:Richard_Askwith_2014.jpeg from jpeg to jpg for consistency with others in the collection? And how should I go about requesting a change in the tools, to recognise this as a name change? U+003F? 07:49, 29 July 2020 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by U003F (talk • contribs) 07:49, 29 July 2020 (UTC)
@U003F: Done under criterion 1 (uploader's request). I think the place to make requests regarding the RenameLink gadget is MediaWiki talk:Gadget-RenameLink.js, though this code might come from MediaWiki:Gadget-AjaxQuickDelete.js. --bjh21 (talk) 09:47, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

1500+ files from ja.wiki are renamed so template won't work - how to fix?

Hi!

Japanese Wikipedia have more than 1500 files like ja:ファイル:Demography01100.svg that is used via templates. But when they were moved to Commons someone changed the names to names like File:Population_distribution_of_Sapporo,_Hokkaido,_Japan.svg and that means the templates won't work. So if the local files are deleted hundreds of pages on Japanese Wikipedia will fail to show the file.

Any ideas how to fix that? Rename all the files on Commons so the template works (rename criteria # 4)? Create 1500 redirects on Commons? Have someone fix the template on Japanese Wikipedia? --MGA73 (talk) 13:15, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

Same with a lot of files like ja:ファイル:基礎自治体位置図 40381.svg vs File:Ashiya in Fukuoka Prefecture Ja.svg. Is English names better than Japanese? And what about criteria 4? --MGA73 (talk) 21:34, 20 July 2020 (UTC)
@MGA73: I think any of these approaches would work. Personally, I'd go for putting a redirect at the template-generated name, either here or on jawiki (assuming the latter works). That way, you replace upload or renaming wars with edit wars on the redirect, which are rather less disruptive. --bjh21 (talk) 22:33, 20 July 2020 (UTC)
File redirects to do seem like the solution. If the original names were well-chosen filenames in Japanese, I'd say they should be left alone, but from the example given, it looks like they weren't. "ファイル", for anyone wondering, is just Katakana for "File". "Demography01100.svg" is a poor filename, barely better than "DSC 1342.jpg", the first example at Commons:File renaming of the sort of name that merits changing. - Jmabel ! talk 00:30, 21 July 2020 (UTC)
@Bjh21 and Jmabel: Thank you both! Poor name or not. The templates worked with the old names and it does not work with the "good" new names. I think it is like the "File:BSicon BHF.svg"-names. They make no sense for anyone who are not really into the template :-) I think the numbers represent an official number of that particular region or what ever they are called in Japan.
Should redirects just be created as regular redirects or should they be categorized in some way? Any thoughts on that? --MGA73 (talk) 07:03, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

Okay I'm creating redirects now. That should work and make sure noone else upload a files with those names. --MGA73 (talk) 15:49, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

Renaming a file to have a shorter name?

File:A pronouncing and defining dictionary of the Swatow dialect, arranged according to syllables and tones.djvu causes me displeasure on Wikisource due to its length.

(This is mainly when copy-and-pasting URLs. Also note that s:Page:A pronouncing and defining dictionary of the Swatow dialect, arranged according to syllables and tones.djvu/5 has a page number tacked on at the end.)

This is the full title as used on the title page of the book, but the header in the main content is "Dictionary of the Swatow dialect".

Is it apppropriate for me to request a rename to File:Dictionary of the Swatow dialect.djvu?

Or, is mw:Extension:Proofread Page capable of handling redirects?

Suzukaze-c (talk) 02:35, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

@Suzakaze-c: You might ask Assassas77 Lotje (talk) 08:42, 18 August 2020 (UTC)
@Lotje: I agree with this change. Assassas77 (talk) 08:57, 18 August 2020 (UTC)
@Assassas77: wanted to make the rename (mention #1 as reason) and this is what I copy-pasted from the message I got:

Error while moving the page.
A detailed description of the error is shown below:
API request failed (articleexists): A page already exists at File:Dictionary of the Swatow dialect.djvu, or the page name you have chosen is not valid. Please choose another name. at Tue, 18 Aug 2020 09:01:53 GMT served by mw1297

Manually report the error here or click on Report automatically to send an automatic error-report.

Wish I could have done better. :-) Lotje (talk) 09:05, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Mass renaming

I am missing information on whether it is possible to request a renaming of a whole bunch of files with the same typo in their name in one go. Or would I have to tag them for renaming manually one by one? -- H005 17:21, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

@H005: User:Perhelion/massrename.js is probably what you're looking for. On a side note, I think we should consider adding it as a gadget for file movers; it's quite useful. Ahmadtalk 05:18, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
Sorry, I misunderstood. I thought you wanted to move them. You can use Help:VisualFileChange.js, and prepend the following on all the pages you want a rename:
{{Rename|1={{subst:#invoke:string|replace|source={{subst:PAGENAME}}|pattern=what that's wrong|replace=what that's right}}|2=Criterion|3=|user={{subst:REVISIONUSER}}}}
You should change the Criterion to the criterion you want to request a rename under (1-6). "what that's wrong" is the string in the old name that is in error. "what that's right" is what you want to insert instead (in the new name). For example, if I want to request a rename for everything in Category:Test images with "Test" in their name to a new name with "Example" instead of "Test" in the name under criterion 3, the code should be:
{{Rename|1={{subst:#invoke:string|replace|source={{subst:PAGENAME}}|pattern=Test|replace=Example}}|2=3|3=|user={{subst:REVISIONUSER}}}}
Ahmadtalk 05:46, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
Many thanks, worked like a charm! Any concerns if I add this to the help page? -- H005 06:43, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
Don't mention it. Now that it can be of use, I've created {{BatchRename}}. It's practically the same thing, but since the code is a bit complicated, I personally prefer the template (the documentation may need improvements, and the template must be substituted). The example above would be:
{{subst:BatchRename|Test|Example|3}}
In my opinion, it's probably a good idea to wait some more before adding it (I don't really think it's controversial enough for a formal proposal, a waiting period should suffice). Ahmadtalk 13:21, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

Move and replace script stalled

I renamed File:BSicon ueWHARFq.svg → File:BSicon ueWHRFq.svg as part of a set of renamings of BSicons, but the script stalled out and my browser killed it before all the uses were replaced. How do I go about finishing the renames? VanIsaac (en.wiki) 21:41, 31 August 2020 (UTC)

Revise files should not be renamed example 1

Based on this discussion, I would like to propose a revision to example 1 to include "or adds a small detail like the date" at the end. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 18:06, 19 December 2020 (UTC)

I suggest rewording that to "trivial detail" or "insignificant detail", because small details can actually be important to include in a filename. pandakekok9 02:22, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
To be honest the current form of the guidelines is pretty clear to me. I'd suggest creating a supplement essay interpreting FNC #2 and FRNOT #1 instead. pandakekok9 02:28, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

Again: Filemover helper table

As talked about at Commons_talk:File_renaming/Archive/2019#Six_uses_for_rename_requests
and Commons talk:File renaming#Filemover helper table, I suggest to add to the box which appears when a rename action is done a short table with 6 buttons where one of the "Rename criterions" (RC) can be selected; this selection causes the insertion of the standard text "RC1" to "RC6" (or "MC" for move criterion, or anything other code the community likes) as the reason/rationale/criterion "Why do you want to move this file?"

The table may be normally hidden and shown only upon request in the second box, when it is drop-down opened.

Select one of the criterions
RC Criterion
1 uploader’s request
2 descriptive name
3 obvious errors, typos
4 harmonising names
5 Commons' guidelines
6 maintenance and fixes
The table may appear somehow like this example, with clickable buttons
There will be no problem to expand the table when the page changes.
The advantage will be the short and self-explaining criterions when automatic inserted,
and nobody needs any more to search for the criterions, neither online nor with an own offline list.
Professional file movers will not need the eplanatory help, but may like nevertheless the comfort of buttons.
People renaming files rather seldom are often unsure when they need to specify a reason; that option will be for their benefit.
-- sarang♥사랑 14:11, 19 November 2020 (UTC)
 Support if not a box, a pull down menu would be handy. -- MaxxL - talk 07:35, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
 Support Lotje (talk) 07:39, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
 Support Krok6kola (talk) 19:58, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
I like MaxxL's alternative idea. I'm not sure why non-filemovers are shown a different prompt which contains a dropdown of rationales, while we don't have such prompt. pandakekok9 07:45, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

To the unknown expert

Thank you for your expansion of the tool! I think it a good idea that it is now possible to read again the whole instruction page; for me, with my half-knowledge, it is not necessary. But what I really need is the new box "Rationale according to the policy" / "Select a reason", a great help for people like me (with Alzheimer problems?) forgetting from one occasion to the other the six points. May I suggest that this box is always present, between the other two boxes? Then I need not to click on the help page, and just opening the pull-down menue in the new box enables me to select a reason, which (also a very useful expansion!) will be standardized to the short FileRemove-Rationale.
This is a really very helpful action, and I will use it full of thanks.
BTW: My second proposal for a shortening of the input search field, depending Template: to Tem: or T:, vanished again with no further reaction. It had a lot of supporters, and only one opposer ('non existent problem' in his point of view), but no final decision whether to accept or denie it. Shall we all bury our hopes that we can type that namespace with less characters? -- sarang♥사랑 10:29, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

Question to the governing body of commons: who decides on the template issue? How can we achieve an implementation? -- MaxxL - talk 16:42, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
@MaxxL: , there is no governing body of commons. Decisions are made in consensus by and with the users :-) Lotje (talk) 17:27, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
@Lotje: Thanks for enlightening me. It was just a kind of outcry of praise as I can't understand WHY the proposal of sarang went down the drains again. There must be some other mystic rule then consensus that leads to acceptance. ;-) -- MaxxL - talk 18:41, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
@MaxxL: you might add this request to the Community Wishlist Survey Lotje (talk) 06:00, 21 December 2020 (UTC)
@Lotje: - Good idea. I'll ask @Sarang: .  MaxxL - talk 08:03, 21 December 2020 (UTC)
@MaxxL: The wishlist had been open until 30 Nov 2020; now it seems too late for that year. When I am still alive at the end of the next year, I'll retry it -- sarang♥사랑 12:37, 21 December 2020 (UTC)
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