Commons:Featured picture candidates/File:Antoine Aveline ca 1700 vue cavalière de la ville de Brest.jpg

From Wikimedia Commons, the free media repository
Jump to navigation Jump to search

File:Antoine Aveline ca 1700 vue cavalière de la ville de Brest.jpg, featured[edit]

Voting period is over. Please don't add any new votes.Voting period ends on 30 Oct 2018 at 14:26:51 (UTC)
Visit the nomination page to add or modify image notes.

SHORT DESCRIPTION
@Colin: You're right, that was how I meant to say it. As I suggested in the nomination above, it would probably be best to start again from scratch if the uploader wanted to do that. Daniel Case (talk) 17:38, 22 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
S. DÉNIEL it isn't the colour that is relevant but the fact that the ink creates a high contrast edge much like vector images or text does. JPG is designed for photographic or painted works where there is not much high contrast lines and edges. The compression algorithm simply can't handle the abrupt transition from dark to light, and you get little gnats flying around the edges. PNG on the other hand has no problem with this, but doesn't compress so well. Additionally, for restoration work, you need a lossless save/load cycle, so our best restorationists here always use TIFF or PNG. -- Colin (talk) 20:30, 22 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Doing tif or png from an already compressed jpeg does not make sense. --S. DÉNIEL (talk) 10:09, 26 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Oppose Although pen-and-ink, the original had tones created by the edges of the lines and the crossed lines, which are a lost when the contrast has been boosted to pure black. I also dislike removing the colour of the paper, which would never have been pure white. Also, at the bottom of the original (now cropped off) is the text "engraving by an anonymous engraver at the end of the seventeenth century" which would seem to disagree with the authorship claimed here. -- Colin (talk) 07:59, 22 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
No it is not about pen-and-ink but an engraving. It is not a drawing by hand but printing. That's why the image is very contrasted. That's why there are lines to make heaven (as Peulle said). Engraving + Printing = Full and Hollow = Black or White There are no gradients.
The editing is made to find this initial state: a white paper and black lines (engraving). I voluntarily remove the text from the bottom : it is a recent addition and it is wrong. It comes from the donor, the leclerc foundation. The Leclerc family owns supermarkets: www.fonds-culturel-leclerc.fr They are very rich but have no historical expertise.
If you had look at the source I give it all this information : Type document: PRINT - Reproduced type: ESTAMPE - Origin of the document: Private collection Edouard Leclerc - Observations: Burin engraving by an anonymous engraver late eighteenth century.
The engraver is often anonymous (except for the best ones). Generally he is not the author of the drawing but the one who reproduces it for printing. Antoine Aveline was also an engraver but that does not mean that he made this engraving himself : - https://books.google.fr/books?id=x5VUAAAAYAAJ&dq=Antoine%20Aveline%20BREST&hl=fr&pg=PA1703#v=onepage&q=Antoine%20Aveline%20BREST&f=false - https://books.google.fr/books?id=L3j_v48zL7MC&dq=Antoine%20Aveline%20BREST&hl=fr&pg=PP338#v=onepage&q=Antoine%20Aveline%20BREST&f=false - you see in these two links that the artist was a designer, engraver and he is coming to Brest.
To find the author : Primary reference : le Manuscrit "Description historique, topographique et naturelle de l'ancienne Armorique" de Christophe-Paul de Robien (1698-1756) - Secondary reference : http://www.bretania.bzh/EXPLOITATION/Default/doc/OAI_7/TABLETTE_3091
It would be more correct to ask for information before accusing.--S. DÉNIEL (talk) 19:26, 22 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, but that is not entirely correct. Old inks used in prints were never totally black, that is a later invention. That is why you see faint shifts in color in the "black" lines. Also the papers were not of the dense, compact qualities we get today, but more porous (and never as white as this) so the ink leaked out a bit from the black areas. I'm sure an 18th century printer would be ecstatic if s(he) saw this image, because this is what they were striving for but could never do. --Cart (talk) 19:40, 22 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
ok cart, mais j'ai répondu a quelqu'un qui a cru que c'était un dessin à la plume et à l'encre. C'est surtout l'usure de la plaque qui finissait par rendre imprécis les lignes. Une première impression pouvait atteindre une très grande finesse. Cela dit j'ai mis les deux versions et il suffit de comparer les deux pour voir que ma retouche ne retire rien. Regarde toi-même les deux images, l'une a coté de l'autre et jugera par toi-même. N’oublions pas que ce qu’on appelle original n’est qu’un scan --S. DÉNIEL (talk) 20:17, 22 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
S. DÉNIEL, you are right I wasn't paying enough attention and it is in fact an engraving. But as Cart says, the effect of real ink on real paper creates at the fibre level shades and tones. When you increase the contrast as much as this, the square pixels become the edges, and it looks rough. -- Colin (talk) 20:30, 22 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
(Edit conflict) Je comprends votre point de vue, M Déniel, mais chacun à son goût. Désolé. --Cart (talk) 20:34, 22 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Pas de problème, chacun a ses propres goûts. Cela dit, si on regarde la photo de l’indien ci-dessous. On demande à ce qu’elle soit restaurée et il y a peu de votant. Idem sur le carte ci dessus. Comment faire passer un document ancien en FP si la moitié des votants veulent une restauration et l’autre moitié n’en veut pas? --S. DÉNIEL (talk) 07:24, 23 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Les restaurations sont acceptables, mais elles doivent être effectuées avec soin et avec beaucoup de sensibilité. Une restauration consiste à conserver l'objet, pas à l'améliorer ni à le moderniser. --Cart (talk) 08:09, 23 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
There are three references on the work and two references on the context and the author. What do you want more?--S. DÉNIEL (talk) 07:32, 23 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, I hadn't seen them. Support reinstated. -- Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:59, 23 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Confirmed results:
Result: 7 support, 3 oppose, 0 neutral → featured. /--Cart (talk) 22:19, 30 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
This image will be added to the FP gallery: Non-photographic media/Maps
Retrieved from "https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Commons:Featured_picture_candidates/File:Antoine_Aveline_ca_1700_vue_cavalière_de_la_ville_de_Brest.jpg&oldid=402164122"