User talk:MKFI/archives 2

File:Astrid Thors.JPG

File:Astrid Thors.JPG has been listed at Commons:Deletion requests so that the community can discuss whether it should be kept or not. We would appreciate it if you could go to voice your opinion about this at its entry. If you created this file, please note that the fact that it has been proposed for deletion does not necessarily mean that we do not value your kind contribution. It simply means that one person believes that there is some specific problem with it, such as a copyright issue. Please see Commons:But it's my own work! for a guide on how to address these issues. Please remember to respond to and – if appropriate – contradict the arguments supporting deletion. Arguments which focus on the nominator will not affect the result of the nomination. Thank you!

Ellin Beltz (talk) 15:41, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

Code issues in User:MKFI/common.js

Hi MKFI, I am a bored bot (this is kind of a computer program) that is watching the recent changes and tapping buttons like I did now.

Curious about the reason? Possibly not but I will tell you anyway:

1. You edited User:MKFI/common.js. Glad to see you coding in javascript! Have you ever considered becoming a MediaWiki hacker?
2. Though, that change appears to introduce 2 new jshint issues — the page's status is now having warnings. Note that invalid or ambiguous code often has unwanted side effects like breaking other tools for you. If you cannot find out how to fix it, I suggest blanking the page for now.
3. To help you understanding where the issues are, I have aggregated a report here and now. If you have questions, don't hesitate to ask users experienced in javascript writing for help. But do not ask the bot's operators (chronically overwrought) unless you suspect an error of mine. If you prefer not getting spammed by me, you can opt-out reports by adding {{ValidationOptOut|type=all}} to your user page or cmb-opt-out anywhere on your your global user page on Meta. Good luck at Wikimedia Commons and happy hacking!

1. ISSUE: line 7 character 91: Script URL. - Evidence: mw.util.addPortletLink('p-tb', 'javascript:importScript("MediaWiki:VisualFileChange.js");', 'Perform batch task', 't-AjaxQuickDeleteOnDemand');
2. ISSUE: line 10 character 48: ['href'] is better written in dot notation. - Evidence: var googleImagesUrl = googleImagesBt.attributes["href"].value;
3. ISSUE: line 12 character 27: ['href'] is better written in dot notation. - Evidence: googleImagesUrl.attributes["href"].value = googleImagesUrl;

Your CommonsMaintenanceBot (talk) at 11:53, 20 April 2015 (UTC).

Code issues in User:MKFI/common.js

Hi MKFI, I am a bored bot (this is kind of a computer program) that is watching the recent changes and tapping buttons like I did now.

Curious about the reason? Possibly not but I will tell you anyway:

1. You edited User:MKFI/common.js. Glad to see you coding in javascript! Have you ever considered becoming a MediaWiki hacker?
2. Though, that change appears to introduce 1 new esprima issue — the page's status is now having ERRORS. Note that invalid or ambiguous code often has unwanted side effects like breaking other tools for you. If you cannot find out how to fix it, I suggest blanking the page for now.
3. To help you understanding where the issues are, I have aggregated a report here and now. If you have questions, don't hesitate to ask users experienced in javascript writing for help. But do not ask the bot's operators (chronically overwrought) unless you suspect an error of mine. If you prefer not getting spammed by me, you can opt-out reports by adding {{ValidationOptOut|type=all}} to your user page or cmb-opt-out anywhere on your your global user page on Meta. Good luck at Wikimedia Commons and happy hacking!

1. ERROR: Cannot parse line 11 column 32: Unexpected token ;

Your CommonsMaintenanceBot (talk) at 12:16, 20 April 2015 (UTC).

Code issues in User:MKFI/common.js

Hi MKFI, I am a bored bot (this is kind of a computer program) that is watching the recent changes and tapping buttons like I did now.

Curious about the reason? Possibly not but I will tell you anyway:

1. You edited User:MKFI/common.js. Glad to see you coding in javascript! Have you ever considered becoming a MediaWiki hacker?
2. Though, that change appears to introduce 2 new jshint issues — the page's status is now having warnings. Note that invalid or ambiguous code often has unwanted side effects like breaking other tools for you. If you cannot find out how to fix it, I suggest blanking the page for now.
3. To help you understanding where the issues are, I have aggregated a report here and now. If you have questions, don't hesitate to ask users experienced in javascript writing for help. But do not ask the bot's operators (chronically overwrought) unless you suspect an error of mine. If you prefer not getting spammed by me, you can opt-out reports by adding {{ValidationOptOut|type=all}} to your user page or cmb-opt-out anywhere on your your global user page on Meta. Good luck at Wikimedia Commons and happy hacking!

1. ISSUE: line 7 character 91: Script URL. - Evidence: mw.util.addPortletLink('p-tb', 'javascript:importScript("MediaWiki:VisualFileChange.js");', 'Perform batch task', 't-AjaxQuickDeleteOnDemand');
2. ISSUE: line 13 character 52: ['href'] is better written in dot notation. - Evidence: var googleImagesUrl = googleImagesBt.attributes["href"].value;
3. ISSUE: line 15 character 31: ['href'] is better written in dot notation. - Evidence: googleImagesUrl.attributes["href"].value = googleImagesUrl;

Your CommonsMaintenanceBot (talk) at 13:10, 20 April 2015 (UTC).

Thanks

Thanks for helping me. Ainsleykg (talk) 14:58, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

File:Flag of Finland Air force squadrons without squadron emblem.svg

Greetings! Will you back me up in deletion request? I could really use your help. This file is hanging here just because of one man's stubbornness. But I am sure we have enough expertise to fight this stubbornness. The cause is just. Sincerely, --Kwasura (talk) 18:01, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

I don't think this one is worth spending too much effort on. At least the file doesn't claim to be an actually used flag. MKFI (talk) 18:37, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

Unfortunately it is. Before I started cleaning up this category, there were all king of rubbish there. Vanadium were eliminated fast, but this one is uploaded be mistake and was used as the "Flag of the Finnish Air Force" some people like to think that the FAF has a branch flag, like the RAF or USAF and they were quick in placing it in their national Wikipedias. But this is deeply misguiding and creates an alternative reality. If the file will remain in Commons someone will return to using it just because "it's looks nice". I want to protect FAF articles from it. Hope you understand. Sincerely, --Kwasura (talk) 18:47, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

Suomen poliisi.svg

The file Suomen poliisi.svg is not an exact duplicate version of the Suomen poliisin miekkatunnus.svg:
the Suomen poliisi.svg has a white colour (with blue contours), but the Suomen poliisin miekkatunnus.svg is transparent.
Infact, perhaps the colour of the Suomen poliisi.svg should be argent (silver), white metal (gray) instead of white, look at the file Supo old badge.svg: .
--Coat af arms (talk) 17:44, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

HYLJE (ship)

• Hi MKFI, can you read these rules for ship names before you are going to revert my edition:

rules

A. When to create a category for a specific shipIf you know the name of a ship in a photo, you might want to create a category for the ship.

B. How to name the category

1.In general, name the category with the ship's name as painted on the vessel (when the picture was taken). Sample: This photo shows "Isla de Botafoc" in 2008. The category is named "Isla de Botafoc (ship, 1980)". This even if the ship had other names before and afterwards. 2.The general format for category titles is "<name of ship> (ship, <year>)". <year> is the year the ship was completed, see Category:Ships by year built for further information. Samples: "Golden Hind (ship, 1973)" or "Pacific Dawn (ship, 1991)". 3."<name of ship> (ship, <year>)" is a naming convention rather than a disambiguation rule. "(ship, <year>)" is added even if there is no other category named "<name of ship>". The "<name of ship>" may already mean ship. Samples: "Norwood (ship, 1899)" or "Europic Ferry (ship, 1968)" or "Mein Schiff 2 (ship, 1997)" or "The Big Red Boat II (ship, 1966)". 4.Submarines use "<name> (submarine, <year>)" and tugs/towboats use "<name> (tugboat, <year>)". All other types are identified by category:Ships by type. Samples: "Akula (submarine, 1909)" or "Cape Romain (tugboat, 1979)". 5.Fishing ships display their license number. Categories for these have the format "<license number> <name> (ship, <year>)" (see Category:Fishing vessels by license number). Sample: This image shows "N206", the category is named "N206 Castle Bay (ship, 1965)". 6.Prefixes are generally omitted. Samples: "Titanic (ship, 1912)" instead of "RMS Titanic (ship, 1912)". Rather "Ammonia (ship, 1929)" than "DF Ammonia (ship, 1929)" or "SF Ammonia (ship, 1929)" . Exception: If the name as painted on the ship always includes the "prefix", the category name includes it as well. Sample: MS. Volendam (ship, 1990) as the name on the vessel reads "MS. Volendam". 7.If there are several ships with the same name built in the same year, the place where the ship was built/location of the shipyard is added: "<name of ship> (ship, <year>, <place>)". Sample: "Mistral (ship, 1999, Saint-Nazaire)" as there are several Mistral (ship, 1999). In the rare case that there are several ships with the same name built the same year at the same place, the yard number is also added: "<name of ship> (ship, <year>, <place>, <yard number>)". Sample: "Stena Transporter (ship, 1978, Ulsan, 649)" and Stena Transporter (ship, 1978, Ulsan, 651). 8.If you don't know the year the ship was built or can't find it, just use "<name> (ship)". Sample: "Ben Campbell (ship)".

best regards,--PjotrMahh1 (talk) 06:43, 25 May 2016 (UTC)

Hylje

I don't see this data:
IMO number : 8006804
Name of ship : HYLJE (during 1981)
External marking : 799
Call Sign :OIMG
MMSI : 230353000
Gross tonnage : 726
DWT : 984
Type of ship : Pollution Control Vessel
Builder : Laivateollisuus Oy
Year of build : 1981
Flag : Finland
Port of registry : Upinniemi
Status of ship : In Service/Commission
Registered owner : Finnish Ministry of the Environment
This is not good, I think, --PjotrMahh1 (talk) 06:52, 25 May 2016 (UTC)

PjotrMahh1 I was under the impression that naval ships follow the convention of ship name + pennant number: Category:USS Elrod (FFG-55), Category:HMS Broadsword (F88), Category:Pori (83). I should note that if you create a new category to replace an existing one it would be in my opinion better to use category redirects instead of deleting the old one. I have added the missing info, sorry about that. MKFI (talk) 07:15, 25 May 2016 (UTC)

• Hei MKFI, sorry I don't see, does Hylje has a naval ensign or flag of Finland? Photo by Aleksi Lindström, he wrote FNS HYLJE. Naval vessel with flag of Finland. Is it correct? Thanks,--PjotrMahh1 (talk) 09:15, 25 May 2016 (UTC)

Hylje is a Finnish navy ship, yes. MKFI (talk) 20:29, 25 May 2016 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/Files uploaded by ErickSati

Hey MKFI, wikipedia is telling me that theres a request for deletion on my uploads of Edwards Manufacturing Company's photos. I've submitted the files to Wikimedia commons [Ticket#: 2016063010014361] to try to not get them taken down. Is there something more that needs to be done to allow these pictures to exist on wikipedia? — Preceding unsigned comment added by ErickSati (talk • contribs) 18:21, 30 June 2016 (UTC)

Deletion Request

Can you please explain to me, in the simplest terms as I'm having trouble finding the answer myself, why you had my film posters deleted from Wikimedia? How do others upload film posters to Wikipedia articles? What did I do wrong and what do I need to do to fix it? I own the rights to the film posters, what copyright am I violating? — Preceding unsigned comment added by TheLachrymistFilm (talk • contribs) 18:52, 12 July 2016 (UTC)

TheLachrymistFilm, if you have the rights you need to send OTRS ticket so we have an actual confirmation and record of that. Since the posters were not actually created by you personally you need to include the artists in OTRS as well. If the OTRS ticket is accepted the files can be restored.

An easier way might be to upload one posters locally in English Wikipedia under US fair use law. (In Commons fair use is not allowed.) This is how most modern film posters are uploaded, for example Independence Day (1996 film) poster is an English Wikipedia local file (en:File:Independence day movieposter.jpg) and not available in Commons.

Many film posters in Commons are in fact copyright violations which have not yet been caught. We get a lot of film posters / CD covers / concert posters etc. which are copyright violations and legitimate uploads can get caught up as well.

Sorry if this is confusing, but the copyright law (especially all the different variations around the world) is not simplest thing. MKFI (talk) 19:21, 12 July 2016 (UTC)

You deleted file:GPS - APRS - Radio - data - sanomaserveri - Kaavio tnx Matti OH3EGY.png

Dear Sir,

You have deleted the drawing my friend Matti Pyykkonen kindly made with effort to describe readers emergency comms message handling.

There was nothing wrong with rights to publish it. Why did you delete it? I clearly wrote on it about permission and linked it to his page! Did you ever read it? I have been writing, illustrating and and co-authoring printed media for decades and I am quite familiar with the rules of crediting pics for their copyright owners.

We can not get the pic back after your deletion. Neither me or Matti himself managed to restore it. Hitting help buttons all we get is page after page of incomprehensible computer code! So I kindly ask you to put the pic back, please!

Regards,

- Juha Hartikka

OH7HJ Finland — Preceding unsigned comment added by OH7HJ (talk • contribs) 20:24, 18 July 2016 (UTC)

Vastasin omalla keskustelusivullasi. MKFI (talk) 22:15, 18 July 2016 (UTC)

Deletion of Belgian Armed Forces pictures

I don't understand why you deleted all those pictures... it was alot of work finding correct pictures and uploading all of them... none of them had watermarks on them.

Instead of deleting everything and telling me "this is your last warning" mind giving me some advice on how I can find pictures free of copyright using google image search? — Preceding unsigned comment added by DomeResident (talk • contribs) 23:27, 18 July 2016 (UTC)

DomeResident, by default everything is copyrighted. Watermarks are irrelevant. You must find an image with explicit free license claim or have the copyright owner send OTRS permission. Neither of these are easy ways.

Almost everything you can find in the internet is copyrighted and unless you are the copyright owner you can't take a picture from the net and upload it to Commons with a free license. Government works are also usually copyrighted (United States is the big exception).

You can try to find something with Google image search by adding CC-license (CC-BY, CC-BY-SA) to search terms. MKFI (talk) 06:32, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

Ok I will try adding CC-license (CC-BY, CC-BY-SA) to my google image search terms. Is there a possiblity if I send an email to the copyright owner of all the photographs on the website of the Belgian Armed Forces (www.mil.be) that he/she can give me an OTRS permission for ALL the photographs on their website? It would be kind of ridiculous that I would have to get an individual permission email for every single photo that I would like to use on wikipedia... --DomeResident (talk) 08:29, 20 July 2016 (UTC)

DomeResident, yes it is possible to ask for a blanket permission. Whether the copyright owner agrees to grant it is another thing. MKFI (talk) 08:36, 20 July 2016 (UTC)

Deletion request for FoB for B&B.jpg

Hello MKFI I understand you may be keen to ensure material is not used without the consent of the owner and in this case, the schematic of the Battle of the Ford of the Biscuits was used in a blog on the Ancient Clan O'Neill website. However I wrote the blog, I am Dr. James O'Neill fro University College Cork. After posting 'Maguire, MacBaron and Henry Duke's crackers' I decided to update the FoB Wiki site and share by map which I created using Photoshop and 1:10000 scale Northern Ireland OS contours. Since the map is already out in the public domain I have no problem sharing it with the Wiki community. Consequently, I would appreciate it if you would remove your delete request.

regards

Dr. James O'Neill — Preceding unsigned comment added by Galloglass1598 (talk • contribs) 09:17, 24 August 2016 (UTC)

Hello,

I have responded on the deletion request page. Please send OTRS permission so we have a record of the license. MKFI (talk) 09:23, 24 August 2016 (UTC)

Monte Carlo vodka deletion

(Comment moved to the end of the page)

Hello, Rainier Enterprises is the owner of Monte Carlo vodka , Certificate of Registration US Copyrights NO. VA 1-901-109 Please explain why you delite our file, Best Regards. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mcv369 (talk • contribs) 16:22, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

Replied on your talk page. MKFI (talk) 17:48, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

Anttikokkomaki.jpg

Kyseisen kuvan käytöstä on sovittu valokuvaajan, Joonas Salo, kanssa. Käyttöoikeudet ovat siis kunnossa. Marttipop (talk) 06:40, 18 September 2016 (UTC)

Vastasin omalla keskustelusivullasi. MKFI (talk) 08:07, 18 September 2016 (UTC)

The Emperors of Bedlam Book Cover - Deletion Request

Hello. The copyright and uploaded book cover for The Emperors of Bedlam, published October 1, 2016 is wholly owned by Fugue Publishing (FuguePub is our Wikipedia user account). We are in the process of creating an entry for "The Emperors of Bedlam" book series that will include such book cover. We ask that you please not delete this image.

Thank you very much. — Preceding unsigned comment added by FuguePub (talk • contribs) 22:07, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

FuguePub, if you own the copyrights for the image please comment in the deletion discussion: Commons:Deletion requests/File:The Emperors of Bedlam - Book Cover.jpg. In order to prove that you are authorized to upload this we usually require OTRS permission. MKFI (talk) 07:36, 15 October 2016 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion

Hi I just create two nomination for deletion pages and added them here. But the page looks like something went wrong. Can you fix it please? Thanks. --85.101.109.144 09:14, 30 October 2016 (UTC)

Fixed. The deletion subpages were missing headers. MKFI (talk) 10:08, 30 October 2016 (UTC)

Kuvasi ovat päätyneet kirjaan

Hei, sinua ehkä kiinnostaa tietää, että tänä vuonna julkaistu tietokirja Maailmanympärimatka Helsingissä: suurlähetystöt ja niiden historia (Kustantaja Laaksonen) käyttää kuvituksessaan kolmea sinun ottamaasi valokuvaa (nähdäkseni File:Iraqi embassy in Helsinki 4.JPG, File:Iraqi embassy in Helsinki 1.JPG ja File:Egypt embassy in Helsinki.JPG). Selasin kirjaa tänään Akateemisessa kirjakaupassa ja kiinnitin huomioni muutamaan kuvaan, jotka näyttivät kovin tutuilta. Kuvalähteeksi on ilmoitettu pelkkä Wikimedia Commons. Tekijänoikeusongelmaa siinä ei liene, kun olet ilmoittanut luopuvasi kaikista oikeuksistasi noihin kuviin, mutta ajattelin tämän ehkä kiinnostavan sinua. --Risukarhi (talk) 18:20, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

Kiitos tiedosta. Hiukan olen yllättynyt että Egyptin suurlähetystön kuva on päässyt kirjaan; valokuvana se ei mielestäni ole kovin kummoinen. MKFI (talk) 19:14, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

File Deletion - The Collaborators.jpg & Bastion Poster Compressed.jpg

Hi MKFI, I wondered if you could tell me why the two uploaded files The Collaborators.jpg & Bastion Poster Compressed.jpg were deleted after I was issued with a concern over copyright, and sent an explanation in response. Thanks in advance. RichardAlbiston89 (talk) 00:27, 6 February 2017 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by RichardAlbiston89 (talk • contribs) 23:25, 5 February 2017 (UTC)

Replied on your talk page. MKFI (talk) 07:49, 6 February 2017 (UTC)

Re

Hello MKFI, I create categories that I saw suitable only to what I put into it. Which mean I will create Category:Videos of T-72 tanks when I found some videos of T-72 tanks that quite simple. So if you or anyone see categories should have parent add into it and go for more complex tree, you can do it yourself. Have a nice day, sorry if my english is bad.Tnt1984 (talk) 10:31, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

Hello MKFI, like I said before I create category for videos of only specific that I saw since I don't think that my worry if I don't need them to check further for wasting time if anyone think parent should have they can create them themselves and add into it, in the mean time that you (if you really want them), if I need them I will create them myself like Ak family when I don't really feel like classify what they are using. Cheer man.Tnt1984 (talk) 10:27, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

Your VFC installation method is deprecated

Hello MKFI, we are aware that using the old installation method of VFC (via common.js, which you are using) may not work reliably anymore and can break other scripts as well. A detailed explanation can be found here. Important: To prevent problems please remove the old VFC installation code from your common.js and instead enable the VFC gadget in your preferences. Thanks! --VFC devs (q) 16:24, 22 May 2017 (UTC)

HHubi and his socks

Hi! I thought you might want to know that the abuse filter I created already caught HHubi 6 times and denied him access. His last try was a complaint on the abuse filter talk page, last sentence: Comments = I would like to add the file description in de, en, and ru language as follows. However, access to WC is denied. Vr. --HHubi I hope that's that. --Hedwig in Washington ^(mail?) 03:43, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

Raasepori ja Sisu

Hei,

tiedoksesi vain, että 2014 kuvaamasi Sisu A2045 on sama kuin Raaseporin tasoristeysonnettomuudessa ollut; molemmat kilveltään 3579. Ks. kuva onnettomuuspaikalta esim: https://d3ncwv2e9zpfbf.cloudfront.net/200300262.jpg --178.38.94.224 09:50, 27 October 2017 (UTC)

No jopas. Merivoimien vuosipäivänähän se on kuvattu joten Uudenmaan prikaatin auto oli kyseessä, mutta silti melkoinen yhteensattuma. Kiitos kun mainitsit. MKFI (talk) 10:39, 27 October 2017 (UTC)

File:Rajavartioston auto Lippujuhlan päivän 2017 kalustoesittely.JPG

Regarding your RR about the photo, I think listing border Guard as a kind of police agency is OK. As examples, the CBP of US and the Guardia di Finanzia were both listed as police agencies. Why do you think the Finnish Border Guard is not police? I am reasonable and hope you can give me a reply.

KTT 廣九直通車 (talk) 08:00, 23 February 2018 (UTC)

See: Category:U.S. Customs and Border Protection and Category:Guardia di Finanza

KTT廣九直通車 (talk) 08:04, 23 February 2018 (UTC)

@廣九直通車: , yes I believe you are right. While the Finnish border guard is more paramilitary organisation they do still belong to the ministry of the interior. MKFI (talk) 22:25, 23 February 2018 (UTC)

File:Finnish Air Force fin flash 1918.svg

Greetings. I am about to nominate this file to be deleted. Would like to ask for your opinion first. Sincerely, --Kwasura (talk) 18:05, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

Hello Kwasura. What deletion reason do you plan to use? The previous deletion discussion is still valid in my opinion that this mark was briefly used on some aircraft. MKFI (talk) 19:15, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

I would like to see some evidence. But right now it looks like we got deceived by the notorious puppet master once again. I had a feeling about it when I first nominated file to be deleted and then recalled my nomination. But now I find a book "Suomen Ilmavoimien Lentokonet 1918-38" by Keskinen, Stenman and Niska. On the 10 p. is the image in question - N. A. B. typ 9 Albatros aircraft. Annotation says: "Koneen peräsimessä on vielä Ruotsin lippu". Picture is black and white, so one will not know the colours without the annotation. But Keskinen, Stenman and Niska are well renown experts in their field. So, if they say that it is Swedish flag — it is indeed Swedish flag. Make sense really, since the aircraft were of Swedish origin. Sincerely, --Kwasura (talk) 19:33, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

@Kwasura: Yes, a possible hoax is a concern. This flag might really have been used, but until further verification I will not contest deletion. After a quick search I was unable to find a digitized version of the order 26 mentioned in file description. MKFI (talk) 20:03, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

You will not find a digital version of the image in question, I already checked, it is unavailable. But this image was of no importance, since it was lacking annotation. However, a book "Suomen Ilmavoimien Lentokonet 1918-38" by Keskinen, Stenman and Niska is much more serious and reliable source then any online pictures. You can find this book in your local library. Still, I will temporarily upload a snapshot from this book to support my claim. However, at the time of previous deletion requests you've said that you find some reference in Heinonen, Timo; Valtonen, Hannu (2010) Albatrossista Pilatukseen - Suomen sotilaslentokoneet 1918-2010, Keski-Suomen ilmailumuseo, p. 18 ISBN: 978-952-9989-2-0. . Could you please double check it, as this book unavailable to me. Sincerely, --Kwasura (talk) 21:32, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

@Kwasura: I have uploaded the image from the book Albatrossista Pilatukseen - Suomen sotilaslentokoneet 1918-2010 to http://zombie.mbnet.fi/Thulin_D_Heinonen_Valtonen.jpg MKFI (talk) 07:37, 23 September 2018 (UTC)

I see what you mean. Well, it is a difficult situation indeed. Both group of authors are very respected experts on the Finnish Air Force history. Now I would really love to contact them, just to make things clear. But I am agree that there is not enough evidence at the moment to nominate this file to be deleted. Swedish flag on the old black and white pictures looks like this [1] [2], which is different then the Finnish aircraft in question. However, modern black and white photographic pictures have different blue and yellow colour presentation. Here is the Swedish Air Force N.A.B. typ 9, and here is the same aircraft of the Finnish Air Force. Annotation is quite clear, and is taken from the book "Suomen Ilmavoimien Lentokonet 1918-38" by Keskinen, Stenman and Niska. If the later two pictures are the modern reproductions, then the flag on them is indeed Swedish. See, I am a little bit confused now, not being able to find any references regarding proposed Finnish red flag with yellow cross. Can you help me out here? Sincerely, --Kwasura (talk) 17:22, 23 September 2018 (UTC)

@Kwasura: From late 1800s to Finnish independence and to 1918 there were many proposals for Finnish flag, and a major public question on whether the flag should be blue-and-white or red-and-yellow (the colours of the Finnish coat of arms). Red flag with yellow cross was one of the major competitors for the modern Finnish flag with a blue cross on white. Red-and-yellow cross flag was especially favored by swedish speaking Finns, and the flag (slightly modified) was officially adopted as a temporary Finnish merchant flag in 1918: w:fi:Suomen_lippu#Itsenäisyyden_ensimmäiset_liput. Finnish civil war put a quick end to that flag as the red colour was tainted by its association with communism. Still the red flag with yellow cross survives as the unofficial w:en:Flag of the Swedish-speaking Finns.

For more information you may try to find the book by Kajanti, Caius (1985) Suomen lippu kautta aikojen, Helsinki: Suojakallio Oy ISBN: 951-99659-4-7. see for example pages from 416 to 449. MKFI (talk) 19:11, 23 September 2018 (UTC)

I know what you are talking about. But question is not about this flag , but about this flag . Namely when it comes to its use in the military. Any references? Sincerely, --Kwasura (talk) 20:21, 23 September 2018 (UTC)

@Kwasura: that Thulin D image in Heinonen & Valtonen is the only one I was able to find. MKFI (talk) 19:14, 24 September 2018 (UTC)

See, that is exactly what I am talking about. There is no sufficient references regarding the flag in question was ever used anywhere. And a group of respected scholars believe that the flag found on the rudders of two air plains is indeed Swedish. --Kwasura (talk) 22:19, 24 September 2018 (UTC)