User talk:Elkost

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Why did you remove Category:Marketing by topic from several categories?

Why did you remove Category:Marketing by topic from several categories? This is a category wherefor overcategorization is allowed, see description. JopkeB (talk) 07:58, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Who has allowed overcategorization? Such practice is against a main principle rule of Commons, leading to mass confusion. If it is so important for you, then name the category differently from common categories to avoid confusion. --Elkost (talk) 08:07, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Categories by topic are an exception to this rule. See for instance the outcome of Commons:Categories for discussion/2023/10/Category:Terminology, one of the conclusions was:

• A category by topic is for improving the findability of subcategories, ... Because it is an index category, all contents can be listed at the same level and overcategorization is allowed.

Sadly, not all of the actions resulting of that discussion have yet been implemented (for instance adding hatnotes in the categories), we are still working on it. JopkeB (talk) 10:15, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

@JopkeB. To my regret, I have missed this discussion.

• In fact such list-categories would improve the findability of subcategories only for small lists, but for huge lists will not. Anyway I don't mind these list-categories, but their usage as simple cats is not correct.
• Let's take “C:Marketing by topic” – when categorize its subcat by country we are looking for a “by country” category in the parent category or eventually in next level parent cats. Finally we shall choose “C:Marketing by country”, but soon it will be full of country cats (as should be) and plenty of sub-cats and their sub-cats (although categorized without duplication as per our rules). Thus we get needless double categorization.
• Normally no categorizer would know that these cats have special status and usage (as me earlier).
• An idea: add “HiddenCat” template to such categories to avoid improper categorization. --Elkost (talk) 11:46, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for your thoughts. Perhaps indeed it might have been a good thing if you could have joined the discussion. Well, you can always start a new discussion if you do not like the outcome.

• “C:Marketing by country” and its subcategories should not be in “C:Marketing by topic” because they are not topic categories. None of the "by"-categories should. Only topic categories should be in “C:Marketing by topic” (for instance about marketing concepts and marketing tools).
• No, you are right, normally no categorizer would know that these cats have special status and usage. We are working on that.
• I'll think about your idea to make these categories Hidden cats.

JopkeB (talk) 14:09, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

In the mean time:

• Josh has made a template for the subcategories, I added it to them. See for instance in Category:Marketing by topic the line with "Expand for more information about how to use this category". So I hope that categorizers now know what the special status and usage of these categories is.
• We indeed decided that it is best to make these categories Hidden cats, again thanks for this idea. I have implemented it.

JopkeB (talk) 14:03, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

Fine! Congratulations for the hidden cats! --Elkost (talk) 14:46, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

Category:Statues_of_Lenin_in_Taraz

Category:Statues_of_Lenin_in_Taraz has been listed at Commons:Categories for discussion so that the community can discuss ways in which it should be changed. We would appreciate it if you could go to voice your opinion about this at its entry. If you created this category, please note that the fact that it has been proposed for discussion does not necessarily mean that we do not value your kind contribution. It simply means that one person believes that there is some specific problem with it. If the category is up for deletion because it has been superseded, consider the notion that although the category may be deleted, your hard work (which we all greatly appreciate) lives on in the new category. In all cases, please do not take the category discussion personally. It is never intended as such. Thank you!

Qualitätssicherung (talk) 15:21, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

OK. Answered on the discussion page. --Elkost (talk) 15:36, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

Category:Avenues_(streets)

Avenues (streets) has been listed at Commons:Categories for discussion so that the community can discuss ways in which it should be changed. We would appreciate it if you could go to voice your opinion about this at its entry. If you created this category, please note that the fact that it has been proposed for discussion does not necessarily mean that we do not value your kind contribution. It simply means that one person believes that there is some specific problem with it. If the category is up for deletion because it has been superseded, consider the notion that although the category may be deleted, your hard work (which we all greatly appreciate) lives on in the new category. In all cases, please do not take the category discussion personally. It is never intended as such. Thank you!

Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 08:19, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

Answered on the discussion page. --Elkost (talk) 18:51, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

"Category:Categories of"

Just an FYI, but there's been several discussions about it and the consensus seems to be against categories called "category:categories of" in most cases because it's totally nonsensical and goes against the guidelines that category names not be ambiguous. So I'd appreciate it if you left things alone in regards to "categories of Belarus by district" versus "districts of Belarus by topic." It's pretty clear that "by topic" is the clearer name for the category in this case. Thanks. Adamant1 (talk) 21:22, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

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Jewish schools

Does [1] iean the category should not be used for any school in Israel, not even (for example) a Hassidic kheder? Or am I just confused (which is possible)? We don't have a similar parent category on Category:Catholic schools. - Jmabel ! talk 15:46, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

@Jmabel. While looking for a common cat for Armenian, Jewish and Turkish schools (in Bulgaria), I found as super category “C:Minority schools”, understanding it as “C:Ethnic minority schools”, not “C:Religious minority schools”. Its only sub category was “C:Armenians schools” and I added the Jewish one. --Elkost (talk) 19:26, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

It's tricky, isn't it? There are also Japanese and Korean schools in the U.S., American schools in practically every major city of the world, French schools in Spain, Romania, and who knows where else, etc. I'm not sure how we should handle these all, but the emphasis on minority seems wrong to me. Also, there is some sort of distinction to be made between (for example) a Japanese school in the U.S. that focuses entirely on people of Japanese ancestry and one where non-Japanese might study aspects of language and culture as well. I don't think any of this has been well thought through. Plus "Jewish" especially raises the issue of religious vs. ethnic. For example, a cheder is a very different matter than a Jewish day school that teaches a broad curriculum. Analogously, but not a school: the 92nd Street Y in Manhattan is emphatically culturally Jewish, and equally emphatically secular.

If you have thoughts on this entanglement I'd love to hear them, but maybe this calls for a broader discussion. - Jmabel ! talk 14:48, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

@Jmabel. Really tricky! Sure, a broader discussion would be the best as the category name is vague, which may be connected to schools with various characteristics. --Elkost (talk) 18:08, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

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Category:Curators

Apparently you disagree with me. Edit-warring is not a way to solve this. How is being a curator not a "museum occupation"? It would seem to me to be the museum occupation par excellence. - Jmabel ! talk 23:43, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

@Jmabel. We have a parent and a subcategory: “Curators” and “Museum curators”. Obviously, to avoid over-categorization, “Museum curators” have to stay in its museum categories and “Curators” must not. --Elkost (talk) 04:54, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

If we are limiting this only to things that apply to all curators, then Category:People in history occupations and Category:Visual arts occupations are also wrong. Someone curating the collection of a truck museum is in no way in a visual arts occupation; it is quite a stretch to say that someone curating a contemporary art gallery or a science museum is in a history occupation. Or am I not following your logic correctly? - Jmabel ! talk 05:13, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

OK, curator should not be classified as arts occupation but as cultural one. --Elkost (talk) 05:25, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

“C:People in history occupations” is OK, according to me. --Elkost (talk) 05:29, 16 December 2024 (UTC) — for museum curators! --Elkost (talk) 05:30, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Curators&diff=prev&oldid=971153332 : best I can see to do with existing categories. - Jmabel ! talk 21:08, 16 December 2024 (UTC)