User talk:Smiley.toerist/out of rhe village-pump

Multiple category search

My original question would've been "how to search images which are in multiple categories together?", but after some search (before asking) revealed this extension:

• http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Multi-Category_Search

Is there a reason it's not enabled on Commons? For example it'd been extremely useful to find pages which are in "1939 deaths" and "painters", to find painters whose works just went into public domain this year. Since Commons relies on categorisation this seems to be a very useful one to have. --grin ✎ 12:56, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

A problem is that Category:Painters (and many other categories at Commons) have most content in different subcategories by country, genre, style, or period, so you would not be able to find anything that is both in "1939 deaths" and "Painters". The search at commons is can already do this, for example here (without any results). To find something you need to search in subcategories like here. /Ö 14:51, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Cat Scan can do what you want to do, and you can specify how many levels of subcategories of the two categories should be traversed, for example 1939 deaths (depth 0) and Painters (depth 3). —LX (talk, contribs) 17:00, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

CetScan2 can also be used. However they only work if the categories are not too big. en:Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser' can also be used with its list comparer. --Jarekt (talk) 13:05, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

Beautiful. Thanks, fellas! Nice tool to get all the PD by 1st january people. :-) --grin ✎ 19:20, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

• As people prefer to use different tools and categories are key to navigate Commons, maybe we could activate Extension:Multi-Category_Search here. --  Docu  at 03:36, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

Making a map from KML routes drawn on Google maps

I am busy drawing the whole FEVE metergauge network in north Spain. I still have a lot of work to do (go the whole to Bilbao and then back to Leon) but I want to check if I can convert the lines to a SVG map. The KML file can be exported from FEVE lines. If not give me feedback.

When I Google for (conversion KML to SVG) I find the website kml2svg.free. However this tool does not seem to functioning as I see (WEBSITE IN MAINTENANCE) and the message (The searched document is not found) when I try this tool. Does anyone know a working solution? Or can do this conversion for me?

My purpose is to make two maps:

• One for the Asturias region (lots of lines)
• The whole FEVE network

Stations, tunnels, etc will be added later on.Smiley.toerist (talk) 00:10, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

• • It might be best to use a GIS program like qGIS. --Rschen7754 03:31, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

You probably know this, JFTR, Google will ditch KML (like everything else working as it should for more than a year) in a few weeks wrt their maps. –Be..anyone (talk) 05:55, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

I took the precaution of backing up all my Google Maps links in KML files. I have made quite a lot of Google map links in Dutch Wikepedia. I suspect Google wil keep the existing Google maps active but maybe not allow exports. Can you make SVG maps with qGIS?Smiley.toerist (talk) 09:37, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

If that you was about me, no, but there is a maps lab somewhere on commons, and a w:de:Wikipedia:Kartenwerkstatt project exists, maybe w:nl: also has something in this direction. –Be..anyone (talk) 10:05, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

Yes, it is possible to export maps to SVG in qgis. It's pretty much straight forward if you have some experience with Geographic information systems, but if you don't it might be best to ask someone else to do that for you. Unless you really only want your network lines to show on the map, you'll need some additional (vector!) geodata to create a base map – Natural Earth is a good source for for free (Public Domain) geodata. I've got some experience with stuff like that, so feel free to come back to me … --El Grafo (talk) 10:34, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the offer of help. I wil try first myself and if I get stuck I wil ask for assistence. I am worried that Google will shortly be no longer be working with KML files. I hope I still wil be able to export KML files from Google Maps in the future. My first priority is to get the routes for Asturias complete. Then I wil try to make a FEVE map for the Asturia and Galicia region. I prefer to have a background map with as little clutter as posible. Certainly the coastline, an indication of mountains, rivers and built up areas, but no roads.Smiley.toerist (talk) 00:19, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

[1] may be helpful, though of course it's for making road maps. --Rschen7754 06:33, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

@Smiley.toerist: If you have saved the KML files to your computer, you can still use en:Google Earth instead of Google Maps to edit them . See e.g. this tutorial on Youtube --El Grafo (talk) 14:57, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

Please make the KML files available, too. Google maps may not support them, but the WikiMiniAtlas still does. --Dschwen (talk) 04:19, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

I have saved a lot of KML files wich I use in Wikimedia articles (via Google map links) but I cant upload them to Commons as the KML format is not accepted. And Wikipedia discussions (and most forums) dont accept attachments. Where can I upload the files?Smiley.toerist (talk) 09:00, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

We do use w:en:Template:Attached KML on enwiki, though obviously they can't be used on other wikis. We have asked Wikidata to take them but adding support is unfortunately low on their priority list. --Rschen7754 04:41, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

I installed Grass GIS on my laptop. However the software demands a location. I try to make a location (a new directory is no problem) but then I have to chose a projection type (there are other choices) without any explanation as to the types of projection. Basically I want to define the location as seen in this OS map. File:North Spain backgroundmap for FEVE an EuskoTren railnetworks.png. The selection coordinates in OSM are upp: 43.799, left:-8.361, rigth:-1.741, down:42.480. I checked out WikiMiniAtlas but this is only a JavaScript plugin, not a database/location to store multiple KML routes information. (The KML file is already 156 kB) Smiley.toerist (talk) 19:57, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

@Smiley.toerist: GRASS is not easy to learn even for people who are familiar with GIS software in general. Also (afair) it's primarily aimed at raster data while you'll probably mainly be working with vector data. I'd highly suggest to try qgis instead. --El Grafo (talk) 19:02, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

I went to the upload website https://www.qgis.org/en/site/forusers/download.html and downloaded the qgis 64bit version for windows. The downloaded file QGIS-OSGeo4W-2.6.1-1-Setup-x86_64.exe (274.707 bytes) installed Grass GIS instead of Qgis. What is going on?Smiley.toerist (talk) 19:50, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

@Smiley.toerist: Most likely it installed GRASS in addition to qgis (GRASS can be called/used from within qgis for more advanced raster calculations). qgis should be installed somewhere on your machine as well … --El Grafo (talk) 09:34, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

I checked the installed maps and programs. There is qgis map wich contains some ddl files but no program executable and a grass subdirectory. It looks like only the minimum of qgis file was installed for the GRASS installation. I didnt see any option to install only Qgis during the installation. At the time I supposed that GRASS was a new version of Qgis. I managed to install a location (EPSG::2062/Madrid) in the GRASS application but it is heavy going with no real documentation.Smiley.toerist (talk) 10:14, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

Changing map dates

Some maps are regularly updated such as File:HighSpeedSpain.svg. I noticed dat the dates in the descriptions didnt follow. I update these dates, however I dont know all the months names in the different languages. Similar probleem with the png version: File:HighSpeedSpain.png Can we have a system where this is done automaticaly?Smiley.toerist (talk) 13:20, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

In most cases, the date in the summary is the date the file was first uploaded, and the most recent date that a file was updated is available from the upload list. For some photographs, and for some other files, the date in the summary reflects neither date, but instead the date from the EXIF data, or an otherwise obtained date that the file was actually created. There is no system wide method that can be used, nor is a bot of any value. If you wish to adopt a convention for some files that you wish to maintain that the date in the summary reflects the "current as of date" for that file, feel free to do that. I can help you with the month names in a large number of languages (over 100), but by far the easiest way to find a month name in another language is to go to wikidata: and put in the month you want in either English or your own language, and voila, you have a list in over 100 languages. But you can just also enter the date as YYYY-MM-DD, and it is automatically translated. Delphi234 (talk) 17:40, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

Date abbreviations

January February March April May June July August September October November December English en Jan. Feb. Mar. Apr. May June July Aug. Sept. Oct. Nov. Dec. Belorussian be studz. liut. sak. kras. mai. cherv. lip. zhniven' veras kastr. list. snezh. Bulgarian bg ian. fevr. mart april mai iuni iuli avg. sept. okt. noem. dek. Czech cs led. ún. brez. dub. kvet. cerv. cerven. srp. záríj. ríj. list. pros. Danish da jan. febr. marts april maj juni juli aug. sept. okt. nov. dec. Dutch nl jan. feb. mrt. apr. mei jun. jul. aug. sept. oct./okt. nov. dec. Estonian et jaan. veebr. märts apr. mai juuni juuli aug. sept. okt. nov. dets. French fr janv. févr. mars avril mai juin juil. août sept. oct. nov. déc. German de Jan./Jän. Feb. März Apr. Mai Juni Juli Aug. Sept. Okt. Nov. Dez. Greek, Modern el Ian. Phevr. Mart. Apr. Maios Ioun. Ioul. Aug. Sept. Okt. Noem. Dek. Hungarian hu jan. feb. márc. ápr. máj. jun. jul. aug. szept. okt. nov. dec. Indonesian id Jan./Djan. Peb. Mrt. Apr. Mei/Mai Juni/Djuni Juli/Djuli Ag. Sept. Okt. Nop. Des. Italian it genn. febbr. mar. apr. magg. guigno luglio ag. sett. ott. nov. dic. Latin la Ian. Febr. Mart. Apr Mai. Iun. Iul. Aug. Sept. Oct. Nov. Dec. Latvian lv jan. feb. marts apr. maijs junijs julijs aug. sept. okt. nov. dec. Lithuanian lt Saus. vas. kovas bal. geg. birz liepa rugp. rugs. spalis lapkr. gr. Malaysian ms Jan. Feb. Mac Apr. Mei Jun Julai Og Sept. Okt. Nov. Dis. Norwegian no jan. febr. mars april mai juni juli aug. sept. okt. nov. des. Polish pl stycz. luty mar. kwiec. maj czerw. lip. sierp. wrzes. pazdz. listop. grudz. Portuguese* pt jan. fev. mar. abr. mai. jun. jul. ago. set. out. nov. dez. Romanian ro Ian. Feb. Mar. Apr. Mai Iunie Iulie Aug. Sept. Oct. Noem. Dec. Russian ru ianv. fevr. mart (mart') apr. mai iiun' iiul' avg. sent. okt. noiabr' dek. Serbo-Croatian sr hr jan./sijec. febr./velj. mart/ozuj. april/trav. maj/svib. juni/lip. juli/srp. aug./kol. sept./ruj. okt./list. nov./stud. dec./pros. Slovak sk l'ad./jan. ún./feb. brez./mar. dub./apr. kvet/máj cerv./jún cerven./júl srp./aug. zári./sept. ruj./okt. list./nov. pros./dec. Slovenian sl jan. feb. mar. apr. maj. jun. jul. avg. sept. okt. nov. dec. Spanish es enero feb. marzo abr. mayo jun. jul. agosto sept./set. oct. nov. dic. Swedish sv jan. febr. mars april maj juni juli aug. sept. okt. nov. dec. Turkish tr Ocak Subat mart Nisan Mayis Haziran Temmuz Agustos Eylul Ekim Kasim Aralik Ukrainian uk sich. liut. ber. kvit. trav. cher. lyp. serp. ver. zhovt. lyst. hrud. Welsh cy Ion. Chwef. Maw. Ebr. Mai Meh. Gorff. Awst Medi Hyd. Tach. Rhag. * fixed. -- Tuválkin ✉ 08:47, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

You could also replace the date in the description (inside the parentheses) by {{date|2014|12|lang=xx}} with "xx" replaced by the corresponding language code to have it autogenerated. Doesn't give you the abbreviated month name, though. Lupo 20:54, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

Where's this table from? Because the Dutch abbreviations are wrong. For all months it should be the first three letters, with the exception of mrt. for maart and a second possibility of sept. besides sep. for september. See this page for official language advice. Mvg, Basvb (talk) 00:20, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

http://web.library.yale.edu/cataloging/months.htm I am not surprised. Another source I have seen is the Microsoft style guide for each language, which includes abbreviations for each month[2] which uses maa for March, and no periods. I have these in a spreadsheet and have updated it from the website you cited, as well as above. I do a lot of SVG translations and while I did not do any (or many) of the ones in File:Ebola_Outbreak_2014.svg, that is what I used to translate the descriptions for File:HighSpeedSpain.svg. Delphi234 (talk) 07:02, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

FEVE maps

Thanks for your response to my queries. I reached Santander from Ferrol (522,5 km) on My Google maps (https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=zEoWHo7PGBKA.kfsyCcK5oYo4). I wil continue drawing the lines on to Bilbao en then to Leon. (see File:FEVE map trial version.png (First try in 2008)) This will take a while due to the intensive curvature of the metergauge railways (I want to be very precise). I made a new Category:FEVE rail maps. I put a query to the Spanish community ([3]) but they dont seem to be very responsive. It can happen that there is nobody interested in local railway history (there is a very complicated railway history of local lines) and be prepared to draw maps.

I will concentrate on tracing the lines and later on then try again to convert the drawn lines to SVG. I seem to get stuck with Grass and Qgis. I can deinstall the software and try again or persevere the hard way. Idealy the projection should be conical for the long East-West map (around 43 degree North latitude). The closest I could find was EPSG::2062 (Madrid). The background map I want to keep as a separate layer so I can keep the option open to make an SVG map with only the FEVE railway lines to be filled in by other map makers. A lot of other elements have to be added in such as stations, tunnels bridges, connecting main railway lines etc, but this can be done in Inkscape.

In the meantime I want to check something. Can you export a KML file from my My Google Map? As I am logged in My Google Maps and its in my laptop memory I am not sure if other people have the same (export) options I see on my screen.Smiley.toerist (talk) 11:19, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

@Smiley.toerist: I fear I can't help you with your installation issues at the moment, since I don't have a Windows machine at hand to try it myself …

I don't see any possibility to download/export anything from here. --El Grafo (talk) 12:33, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

This means I have to place the KLM files on some file server or mail the files personaly as attachments.Smiley.toerist (talk) 15:32, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

I put these on my own website (I forgot I stil have one) Adres is: My website The most complete one is FEVE Lines. Smiley.toerist (talk) 13:15, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

Qgis and FEVE maps

I completed drawing the whole FEVE narrow gauge network. (see My KML website) In the meantime my laptop crashed and had to be replaced. I am now ready the load the software again. I noted down the installation but I get stuck with choices I dont understand:

From https://www.qgis.org/en/site/forusers/download.html I downloaded:

Downloads for windows -> For new users -> QGis standalone version 2.8 (64 bit) Downloaded: QGIS-OSGeo4W-2.8.2-1-Setup-x86_64.exe

I started the installation:

Qgis Wien (2.8.2) installation After the license questions: Chose the parts you want to install: North Carolina data set, South dakota (Spearfish), Alaska data set

What the hell are these datasets and do they have any connection with projections of the North of Spain? This is not very user friendly for new users. I wont go beyond this point until I understand what I am doing.Smiley.toerist (talk) 10:19, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

Could you convert the KML files to a SVG map? I suppose an conical East - West projection is best for this long distance (438 km). From there I could try to add details (stations, tunnels, etc) with Inkscape (I have to learn to use this tool also). PS: I started a discussion in the village Pump (Mapmaking of the FEVE metergauge network).Smiley.toerist (talk) 10:19, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

Hi Smiley.toerist, I recently had the same problem of qgis not being installed correctly. As far as I remember, choosing a different download source fixed that (I may have used this one, don't remember). Those datasets you mentiopn are part of GRASS, you don't need them. If the alternative download doesn't work for you, I can try converting them to SVG, but that may take a while since I'll be traveling for at least a week. --El Grafo (talk) 11:29, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

Searching in structured output

I have added Q23397(lake) to the file. I am curious if there other files in the Commons with structured data (lake). How can I find them?Smiley.toerist (Overleg) 19:16, 18 May 2019 (UTC)

   PS: The location is know corrected.Smiley.toerist (Overleg) 19:28, 18 May 2019 (UTC)

           @Smiley.toerist: [13]. This is already explained here. Cheers. Strakhov (Overleg) 21:39, 18 May 2019 (UTC)

       @Smiley.toerist: Note that generic depictions like "lake" are discouraged per Commons:Depicts#What_items_not_to_add. There are untold thousands of images of lakes on Commons. The more specific name of the lake would probably be more useful, e.g. perhaps Zandmotor DeltaDuin (Q1393347)? --Animalparty (Overleg) 22:53, 18 May 2019 (UTC)

           That note is not discouraging generic depictions, but adding generic depictions when there is already a more specific one. Not exactly the same. Since Zandmotor DeltaDuin (Q1393347) is not an instance of lake (or an instance of a subclass of lake...), tagging this image as lake IMHO is OK (if this is really a lake), unless someones finds an item about this specific lake. Having untold thousands pictures of lakes hosted in Commons is not a problem, it's a fact. A good one, I may add. Have in mind there's room in the future for a "location"-property (see "Items expected to be covered by other statements"). I do not know if that one would refer to "administrative entities" or "more generic places". Strakhov (Overleg) 23:31, 18 May 2019 (UTC)

               There is a Category:Zandmotor meer but not a Wikidata item. There are two bodies of water. One lake, originaly an enclosed sea, but It has become a fresh water lake. The other is a lagoon wich is reached by seawater at high tide. It is drained by a narrow undeep channel, except by very high tide when the lagoon is refilled. There where occasions when the channel is filled over after a sandstorm. How do you type in structured output: File:Zandmotor januari 2016 14.JPG, File:Zandmotor januari 2016 01.JPG, File:Zandmotor januari 2016 07.JPG, File:Zandmotor januari 2016 09.JPG? It is to small to use 'bodies of water'. 'Tidal pools' or 'salt marsh' dont really cover it. Maybe puddle (Q152841), but it is larger and has structure (river like) and certainly not when it flows.Smiley.toerist (Overleg) 18:13, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

           The strong point of the structured data is to find unusual combinations such as File:Paardenpauze bij strandtent.jpg.Smiley.toerist (Overleg) 18:21, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

Lakes in Wikidata

Weissensee.jpg

I have been relinking the lake property of files to specific lakes. However what if the more specific Wikidata-item (Q9181844) does not have the lake property? In this case a Commons category? Smiley.toerist (Overleg) 13:52, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

   I hope I corrected the mess in Wikidata (Q9181844)Smiley.toerist (Overleg) 21:51, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

       Not really, I'm afraid. There was a second Wikidata item for this lake which I merged with Q9181844. De728631 (Overleg) 22:28, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

Searching in structured output

I have added Q23397(lake) to the file. I am curious if there other files in the Commons with structured data (lake). How can I find them?Smiley.toerist (Overleg) 19:16, 18 May 2019 (UTC)

   PS: The location is know corrected.Smiley.toerist (Overleg) 19:28, 18 May 2019 (UTC)

           @Smiley.toerist: [13]. This is already explained here. Cheers. Strakhov (Overleg) 21:39, 18 May 2019 (UTC)

       @Smiley.toerist: Note that generic depictions like "lake" are discouraged per Commons:Depicts#What_items_not_to_add. There are untold thousands of images of lakes on Commons. The more specific name of the lake would probably be more useful, e.g. perhaps Zandmotor DeltaDuin (Q1393347)? --Animalparty (Overleg) 22:53, 18 May 2019 (UTC)

           That note is not discouraging generic depictions, but adding generic depictions when there is already a more specific one. Not exactly the same. Since Zandmotor DeltaDuin (Q1393347) is not an instance of lake (or an instance of a subclass of lake...), tagging this image as lake IMHO is OK (if this is really a lake), unless someones finds an item about this specific lake. Having untold thousands pictures of lakes hosted in Commons is not a problem, it's a fact. A good one, I may add. Have in mind there's room in the future for a "location"-property (see "Items expected to be covered by other statements"). I do not know if that one would refer to "administrative entities" or "more generic places". Strakhov (Overleg) 23:31, 18 May 2019 (UTC)

               There is a Category:Zandmotor meer but not a Wikidata item. There are two bodies of water. One lake, originaly an enclosed sea, but It has become a fresh water lake. The other is a lagoon wich is reached by seawater at high tide. It is drained by a narrow undeep channel, except by very high tide when the lagoon is refilled. There where occasions when the channel is filled over after a sandstorm. How do you type in structured output: File:Zandmotor januari 2016 14.JPG, File:Zandmotor januari 2016 01.JPG, File:Zandmotor januari 2016 07.JPG, File:Zandmotor januari 2016 09.JPG? It is to small to use 'bodies of water'. 'Tidal pools' or 'salt marsh' dont really cover it. Maybe puddle (Q152841), but it is larger and has structure (river like) and certainly not when it flows.Smiley.toerist (Overleg) 18:13, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

           The strong point of the structured data is to find unusual combinations such as File:Paardenpauze bij strandtent.jpg.Smiley.toerist (Overleg) 18:21, 19 May 2019 (UTC)