User talk:Marchjuly/Archives/2018/March

Ikebana photos

Hi Marchjuly,

Thank you for your message. That is a good question.

For arrangements which are copies of historical pieces, there cannot be a copyright since they are copying classical arrangements on which the copyright of the original inventor/teacher has expired. The example you gave of the Sōka Hyakki pieces is such, the author being Ikenobō Senjō (池坊専定) and the arrangements dating to at least 1820. Therefore there is no copyright on it since it has expired. It would be as if someone today copied an old master like Hiroshige, and then claimed copyright on the work. If a piece is modern and new (Jiyūka 自由花 for example), then I agree copyright would apply. The pictures I have uploaded are all pieces which are classical and traditional and copies of old existing formats. If that logic does still not suffice, you could argue that article 46 applies in this case. Gryffindor (talk) 14:45, 12 March 2018 (UTC)

Discussion continues at User talk:Gryffindor#Ikebana photos. — Marchjuly (talk) 22:32, 12 March 2018 (UTC)

Hallo Marchjuly, could I ask you for a big favour? Could you please add the kanji that is written on the small wooden tablets in the description text, for example with this one? File:2017 Ikenobou Autumn Tanabata Exhibition Souka Hyakki (9).jpg and others? I will request the photography workshop to airbrush the tablets out, but I would like to save this information in the description first. Thank you. Gryffindor (talk) 13:13, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

@Gryffindor: I don't mind doing that, but some of the characters are blurred and look to be written with a brush so I clearly cannot make them out. For example, the tablet for File:2017 Ikenobou Autumn Tanabata Exhibition Souka Hyakki (9).jpg looks like (from top to bottom)

1. 必 ?
2. ? ? ?
3. 松原カツ子

My guess is the tablet follows that same format for all of the works in that particular exhibition. Item #1 probably describes the category/award, item #2 probably is the name of the work, and item #3 is the name of the artist. Also, there appear to be two seals on the tablets as well, but I am unable to make them out. I should be able to get most of the names since they appear to be the easiest to make out, but the other two items are too blurred. It would probably be much easier for you to figure out what they are exactly by looking at the original photos. -- Marchjuly (talk) 22:08, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

Hi Marchjuly. Yes, whatever is possible, that would be wonderful. All images that need identification from the tablets are here: Category:2017 Ikenobō Autumn Tanabata Exhibition. I know it's quite a bit of work, but your help would be immensely appreciated. Please let me know if I can help you in any way. Thank you very much. Gryffindor (talk) 17:27, 17 March 2018 (UTC)

Names can be tricky even when the characters are clearly legible; they may sometimes use other non-standard/special readings of a character or the character may have multiple readings which are used are commonly used for names. for example, "別府" can be "Beppu" like en:Beppu station or "Befu" like en:Befu station (Fukuoka), and "愛" can be "Ai" like en:Ai Sugiyama, "Manami" like ja:Manami Nomoto or even "Megumi" like en:Megumi Nakajima. So, even if I can make out the characters, there's no way to be completely sure the my reading will be the actual reading. IS there any way to figure out who held the exhibition and ask them for a kana-listing of the participants names? That would clear up both the blurred characters and the reading issues. If not then perhaps you good do one file as an example of what you want done. I'm not sure where the information you want included is to be added. Do you want to add it to the existing text in the |description= parameter like this: "Classical shōka arrangement of the Ikenobō school presented by XXXXX at the annual autumn Tanabata exhibition, Takashimaya Kyoto."? (minus the bold) -- Marchjuly (talk) 00:58, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

I think best would be if you could just create a separate line for the Japanese text using the template

日本語: xxxyyy

and fill it with any legible kanji. I would worry about the correct translation into English of the names later. I will ask also if there is an exhibition catalogue available. Gryffindor (talk) 14:15, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

Do you still have the original photo data? Perhaps there's a way to use that to determine the blurred characters? If not, then maybe someone in Category:Users in Japan can help with the reading. Alex Shih is a English Wikipedia admin who might be able to help. There is also ja:WP:HNJS where a native speaker might be found who can make out the blurred characters. Finally, you mentioned that you want this done because you're going to have the tablets "airbrushed out"; however, even if that's done, the older versions of the files with the tablets should not be deleted just in case that was a concern of yours. -- Marchjuly (talk) 00:34, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

Is this the exhbition where you saw File:2017 Autumn Tanabata Exhibition Ikenobou doujou 01.jpg? I am unable to find anyone named "Shizuka Wakabayasshi" on this page, but I'm now pretty sure that item 1 above is "Ikenobō" (池坊). -- Marchjuly (talk) 00:56, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

That is correct. Item 2 is "Sōkatoku" (総華督), the top qualification for Ikebana. Alex Shih (talk) 04:09, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

Thank you that Alex. -- Marchjuly (talk) 04:12, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

Yes, to go back to your earlier question, the old version with the tablet will still exist as a previous version. Do any of the tablets state what type exactly the arrangement is, for example which type of Rikka, or Shoka, etc.? For example in this image it is obvious because it also states in the back in English File:2017_Ikenobou_Autumn_Tanabata_Exhibition_03.jpg. Gryffindor (talk) 15:30, 23 March 2018 (UTC)

I'm not sure what is meant by "Rikka" and "Shoka". Do you mean "立花" and "生花"? Those words do not appear to be written on any of the tablets, but I'm not really able to make out much more than the names for most of the photos. Once again, you might be able to do so from the original photo data if you still have access to it. -- Marchjuly (talk) 21:48, 23 March 2018 (UTC)