User talk:Apalsola/Archive 4

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Archives Current talk page Archive 1 (2008-04-08 to 2010-09-08) Archive 2 (2010-09-08 to 2011-12-31) Archive 3 (2012-01-01 to 2014-12-31) Archive 4 (2015-01-01 to 2017-12-31)

Finnish military aircraft registrations

Hello. I noticed that you proposed to move the categories I recently created for some Finnish army helicopters. I have left a comment on the talk pages of these categories, e.g. at Category talk:NH-215 (aircraft). Regards, De728631 (talk) 23:23, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

Categories of Switzerland

Hi Apalsola. I remember you that Categories of Country by something are maintenance categories, like a flat list, (they are little local flat list!), so it's important that all categories of that type are there for the general maintenance. For this reason they have no overcategorisations. In fact generally they are hiddencats. So it's not correct and not useful what you have done, to delete someone of them because "overcategorizated". Best regards, --DenghiùComm (talk) 14:46, 17 April 2015 (UTC)

Where is it stated that Categories of Country by something would be maintenance categories or flat lists? Flat lists have "(flat list)" in their name (like Category:Categories by country (flat list)) and that is not the case with the sub-categories of Category:Categories by country by city. I also checked contents of some of them and they all seemed to be just ordinary, non-hidden, non-maintenance categories. So, yes, I think my edits were correct and useful. Best regards, ––Apalsola ^{t • c} 16:25, 17 April 2015 (UTC) –– (fix) Apalsola ^{t • c} 16:30, 17 April 2015 (UTC)

There was important discussions about it when this categories was created. They are archieved in CFD. --DenghiùComm (talk) 18:27, 17 April 2015 (UTC)

Can you provide a link? ––Apalsola ^{t • c} 19:49, 17 April 2015 (UTC)

I can't remember. You need to search it. But it was in 2010. --DenghiùComm (talk) 05:22, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

@DenghiùComm, I did search (already before I asked you to provide a link) but I did not find such discussions. Anyway, I don't think it is my responsibility to find them because I am not the one who refers to them; I have only referred to Commons:Categories and it is quite clear about overcategorization. Best regards, ––Apalsola ^{t • c} 20:50, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

Finnish aircraft

Hi Apalsola. Can you check the categories on these files uploaded on May 15? Cheers --Helmy oved 06:54, 29 May 2015 (UTC)

How to gategorize?

I created category Category:Manors in Finland by city under the category Category:Manors in Finland. This was primarily, because in Category:Salo there is a vast amount of buildings, and they have to be tackled somehow, and to create category:Manors in Salo was one step and it seemed to requier the Category:Manors in Finland by city.

The question now, however, is, can the categories be like this, i.e. so that the same item is both in the category Category:Manors in Finland and, for example, category:Manors in Salo? Or should there be a category something like Category:Manors in Finland by name or is the current situation ok? Of course, finally there were not so many images of the manors of Salo in the first place, so that the whole existence of the category may be somewhat querstionable. But because of the great amount of pictures in Category:Salo this seemed helpful.

(Juu, juhannusaatto, siivous menossa, tiskit likoamassa. Viime juhannuksen olin mettässä.) --Urjanhai (talk) 20:44, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

@Urjanhai, vähän myöhässä tämä vastaus, mutta kuitenkin.

Minusta Category:Manors in Salo on aivan hyvä ajatus. En tiedä, onko tästä mitään virallista ohjeistusta, mutta omissa muokkauksissani olen pitänyt periaatteena, että luokan voi luoda, jos siihen tulee vähintään kolme alaluokkaa tai samaan alaluokkaan kuulumatonta tiedostoa (eli sellaista tiedostoa, joita ei voi yhdistää yhteen alaluokkaan). Kaksikin alaluokkaa voi olla aivan OK, mutta yhden alaluokan tai tiedoston luokissa ei mielestäni ole mitään järkeä: ne vain vaikuttavat kuvien löytymistä ja ovat siten pikemminkin vahingollisia.

Osittain em. syystä erilaisia "by city", "by country" yms. luokkia pitää luoda vain, jos ko. asia on mahdollista (tai järkevää luokitella) alaluokkiin useammalla perusteella. Tästä on hyvä (tai siis huono...) esimerkki vaikkapa luokat Category:Saint Luke churches ja Category:Saint Luke churches by country. Kaikki Pyhän Luukkaan kirkot on luokiteltu maittain jälkimmäiseen luokkaan, joka on sitten ensiksi mainitun luokan ainoa alaluokka. "By country" -luokittelutaso on tässä tapauksessa aivan turha, koska kirkot olisi aivan yhtä hyvin voitu luokitella maittain suoraan luokkaan Category:Saint Luke churches. Sen sijaan esim. luokan Category:Churches in Finland "by jotain" alaluokat ovat hyvinkin järkeviä (noh, kirkkojen luokittelua valokuvausajankohdan mukaan en oikein ymmärrä...), koska luokitteluperusteita on useita.

Em. vaara on myös luokalla Category:Manors in Finland by city, koska ainakaan toistaiseksi kukaan ei ole keksinyt luokitella Suomen kartanoita muuten kuin sijainnin perusteella. (Nimen perusteella luokittelu voi toki olla toinen peruste.) Koska kaupunkikohtaisia kartanoluokkia on (ainakin toistaiseksi) vain kahdelle kaupungille (Hamina ja Salo), voisivat nämä yhtä hyvin luokitella suoraan Category:Manors in Finland -luokan alle.

Varsinaiseen kysymykseesi vastaukseni on, että samaa kuvaa tai luokkaa ei koskaan pitäisi luokitella yhtä aikaa johonkin luokkaan ja sen alaluokkaan. Eli koska Category:Hirvilahti Manor on jo luokassa Category:Manors in Salo, ei sitä pidä luokitella luokkaan Category:Manors in Finland. ––Apalsola ^{t • c} 13:25, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

Osuin tänne takaisin vasta viiveellä. Pikainen kommentti tuohon viimeiseen, että tuossa näköjään en-wikipedia ja commons taitavatkin soveltaa eri käytäntöä. Fi-wikipediassahan on vanhastaan tapa, että mitään ei koskaan luokitella samanaikaisesti sekä ylä- että alaluokkaan, kun taas en-wikipediassa joissain tapauksissa näkee luokiteltavan ja kehotetaan luokittelemaan sekä ylä- että alaluokkaan, mutta käsitteet, joita näiden tapausten määrittelyyn käytetään, ovat niin monimutkaisia sivistyssanoja (ja niitä käsitteitä on useita!) ettei niitä ole lukion englannin laudaturilla tai edes Ofxford advanced learner's dictionarylla juuri mitään toivoa hahmottaa. Mutta jos tuollainen luokittelu commonsin puolella onkin virhe, niin kuin on totuttu vanhastaan fi-wikpediassa, niin se on näihin fi-wikipedian käytäntöihin tottuneelle helpotus. Noiden miuiden osalta täytyy tsekata, ellei joku ehdi säätää jo ennen. Commonsin luokkaan Salo on ladattu paljon arvokasta sisältöä, mutta järjestelytyö on suuri ja vaatii käytännössä hyvän paikallistuntemuksen.--Urjanhai (talk) 07:53, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

Joo, tässä asiassa Commonsin ohje on itse asiassa aika selkeä ja tosiaan poikkeaa englanninkielisestä Wikipediasta: "The general rule is always place an image in the most specific categories, and not in the levels above those." Ja Salosta olen tismalleen samaa mieltä. Aika monessa kuvassa on kyllä koordinaatit, mikä jonkin verran helpottaa työtä ilman paikallistuntemustakin. ––Apalsola ^{t • c} 10:15, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

Jirayu Laongmanee

Can you be the one who can edit the article of Jirayu Laongmanee?? I just wanted to replace his photo there,if you insist, i dont know already yet how to edit articles.so i hope you will accept my request,by the way,i'am a newbie here.. Jayveeaguilar83 (talk) 11:59, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

Do you mean article Jirayu La-ongmanee in English Wikipedia? It is not protected, so you should be able to edit yourself. ––Apalsola ^{t • c} 12:19, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

Events in Europe by decade

Hi Apalsola. Since more than a week I am making a big work on MetaCats, to bring order, consistency, correction of mistakes, etc. Now you rollbacked all my corrections in the subcats of Category:Events in Europe by decade. I can understand that you don't like that I add a category where it works only a template. But this template has a mistake. If you open a subcat of Category:Events by continent by decade, you will see that the Events of Asia, North America, etc. are located on the right, at the bottom of all subcats, while the Events in Europe are located on the left side, at the top of all subcats. Absurd! I try to correct this stupid mistake due by the template. Now you rollbacked all my corrections. Is this useful? If you don't like that I add a category, then please correct the template! I will be very grateful to you. Thank you very much! Best regards, --DenghiùComm (talk) 21:38, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

The proper way to fix this kind of problems is indeed to fix the template. That is what you should have done in the first place instead of manually adding categories. I fixed the template anyway. ––Apalsola ^{t • c} 10:40, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

Unfortunately I have no knowledge how to do, neither how to correct a template, different way I would have done it myself. Anyway thank you very much again ! Best regards, --DenghiùComm (talk) 11:44, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

Categories for discussion

Hi Apalsoloa, I just wanted to give you a heads up that I have responded to your inquiry here. Cheers.Anythingyouwant (talk) 19:43, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

Regarding this revert of yours, please see Category:Meta categories which says "This category is used for administration or maintenance of Wikimedia Commons." Therefore, every subcat of Category:Meta categories is also used for administration or maintenance, no?Anythingyouwant (talk) 21:21, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

No. It only applies to Category:Meta categories. {{Global maintenance category}} is used for categories containing categories or files with some problems and thus needing some maintenance. For example, Category:Media missing infobox template contains files that need {{Information}} template to be added. (You probably get the idea by looking at the list here.) Generally, there is nothing wrong in composer categories nor files in them, so they do not require maintenance. And technically {{Global maintenance category}} is used in categories "used for administration or maintenance of Wikimedia Commons" which is not the case here because you are using that category for maintenance of English Wikipedia, not Commons. ––Apalsola ^{t • c} 21:40, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

Category:people by name is a meta category. Is it used for administration or maintenance of Wikimedia Commons?Anythingyouwant (talk) 21:49, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

Probably not because it is not tagged as such. Not all meta categories in general or "by name" categories in particular are maintenance categories; actually very few are. ––Apalsola ^{t • c} 21:52, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

What is the purpose or meaning of a "meta category" other than for administration or maintenance of Wikimedia Commons? In any event, I think administration of Wikimedia Commons includes analysis and utilization of data within Wikimedia Commons.Anythingyouwant (talk) 22:00, 11 August 2015 (UTC)reply

They are just categories by some criterion. For example, Category:Buildings in the United States by state contains buildings in the United States sorted by the state they are located. Category:Buildings in the United States by material sorts them by the material they were built, and Category:Buildings in the United States by function by their function.

Basically, they are meant for finding the files, such like any other category. Their only difference from "ordinary" categories is that they only may (directly) contain other categories while ordinary categories may also contains files. Nothing to do with maintenance. ––22:21, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

Well, if "Meta category" at Commons merely means the same thing as "container category" at Wikipedia, then it might be a good idea to mention that here at the Commons category.Anythingyouwant (talk) 22:30, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

Well, their purpose is quite clearly described with {{Metacat}} template that is (or should be) placed in every meta category. ––Apalsola ^{t • c} 22:35, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

We all agree that categories here at Commons may be merely for administration or maintenance of Wikimedia Commons. Why rule out categories here at Commons that are merely for administration or maintenance of Wikimedia more generally? If a category is very useful for that purpose, then it should be accepted. I will never persuade a bot programmer to write a program for something that could easily be accomplished by simply creating a category. I am very sad that this whole Sound project at Wikipedia is now collapsing due to this issue.Anythingyouwant (talk) 22:52, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

As I already replied to this one in Commons:Categories for discussion/2015/08/Category:Composers by name, no, we do not agree. Let's keep that discussion in one place. ––Apalsola ^{t • c} 22:58, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

Okay.Anythingyouwant (talk) 23:03, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

Deprecate template

Hi Apalsola. I make a big work of consistency in metacats. Now you rollback my changes, so you bring again a mess in the subcategories. Look e.g. here. Is this useful? I don't know why this template is deprecated. But it is in use by the most part of the subcats. If this template is not good, delete it! Now we have again a mess in our subcats: the most part with the deprecated template, and few of it with the good template. Please make order you now! I spend hours to make order! Thank you very much. Best regards, --DenghiùComm (talk) 09:06, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

The main reason for the deprecation of {{Europemonthyear}} is its dependancy on the English language and does not handle well other languages. (And Wikimedia Commons is an international and thus multilingual project.)

And yes, there was a minor problem with category sort keys in {{Month by year in Europe}}. Actually the correct way is to use the year as the sort key, not "Month". This has now been fixed both in {{Month by year in Europe}} and {{Europemonthyear}}. BTW, Category:January in Europe is not a metacat. ––Apalsola ^{t • c} 09:20, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

Thank you very much for your corrections (at least aesthetically if not substantially). I maintain again that faulty templates must be deleted (but this is not in my power). Yes I know that "January in Europe" is not a metacat; but I was making order in all subcats of the Category:Months by continent, and so I arrived finally in these other categories. Cheers,--DenghiùComm (talk) 09:47, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

P.S.: : if you like to work on templates: 1) look at Category:Months in Tunisia how the template works in his subcats. 2) can you create a template for Category:Decades by month for all its subcats? Thank you very much! --DenghiùComm (talk) 09:47, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

Yes, faulty templates should be deleted but only after they have been replaced.

I'll look into the templates later. ––Apalsola ^{t • c} 09:53, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

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Apuja

Moi. Mitä temppuja pitää tehdä, jotta saisi fi-wikin artikkeliin kuvan paikalle äsken tallentamani uuden version samasta kuvasta? Kyseessä on . Kameran linssissä oli tahra ja en ymmärtänyt tallentaessa kropata sitä pois. Nyt ymmärsin ja tallensin samalla nimellä uuden version, mutta artikkelissa Suomen itsenäisyyspäivä pysyi sitkeästi vanha versio täplineen. Vaihdoin sitten sinne kokonaan uuden kuvan (joka sekin on uusittu). Käyttäjäsivulleni uusi versio lipputankokuvasta tallentui. Olen päivittänyt kaikkia mahdollisia sivuja, purgettanut ja tyhjentänyt selainten välimuistin, mutta ei. Stiplukuva säilyy. Voisiko vanhan version poistaa täältä Commonsista?, Terveisin --Htm (talk) 07:26, 6 December 2015 (UTC)

Enpä osaa antaa tuohon muuta neuvoa kuin odottaa. Yleensä kuvat päivittyvät viimeistään muutamassa päivässä. ––Apalsola ^{t • c} 11:23, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

Ei sitten auta kuin odottaa kärsivällisesti, harvoin olen samaa kuvaa uudestaan ladannut. Kiitos vastauksesta!--Htm (talk) 05:17, 8 December 2015 (UTC)

Category:Air_disasters_by_year

Air disasters by year has been listed at Commons:Categories for discussion so that the community can discuss ways in which it should be changed. We would appreciate it if you could go to voice your opinion about this at its entry. If you created this category, please note that the fact that it has been proposed for discussion does not necessarily mean that we do not value your kind contribution. It simply means that one person believes that there is some specific problem with it. If the category is up for deletion because it has been superseded, consider the notion that although the category may be deleted, your hard work (which we all greatly appreciate) lives on in the new category. In all cases, please do not take the category discussion personally. It is never intended as such. Thank you!

Themightyquill (talk) 23:49, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

Removal of uploader credit

Hello, you are being contacted as a user who has previously [or currently] included "* Uploaded by Example" in your file uploads. A bot task has been approved to remove this specific phrase from files because it can be misleading when attempting to attribute the file creator. As an alternative, RileyBot is willing to tag your uploads with a user category instead. Please respond stating if you opt-in and if you have any specific requests (addition of user category, etc); if there is no response within two weeks, consent will be implied. Please note, this message has been left by an automated bot, however, a user will be tracking your response. RileyBot (talk) 01:15, 14 February 2016 (UTC)

Category:People of Finland by name

Hi, Apalsola. I noticed that you added a metacat template to this category. Categories for individual people by name are not metacategories, so I have removed the template. Subcategories in a metacategory contain things that are grouped by a common characteristic, and that characteristic is specified in the name of the metacategory. Since the people under this category don't have the same name, this is a "by name" category, but it's not a metacategory. It's confusing because "by name" can mean different things. It can mean a metacategory grouping of things with the same name (such as Category:Hotels by name), or it can mean the English expression "by name" which means to refer to people or things using their names. If you have any questions about this, feel free to ask. --Auntof6 (talk) 18:46, 10 October 2016 (UTC)

Auntof6, please do not add my talk page Category:People of Finland by name.

I think, Commons:Naming categories#Categories by CRITERION is quite clear about this: "by name, like People by name" categories "should be marked with {{MetaCat}} template". ––Apalsola ^{t • c} 08:46, 11 October 2016 (UTC)

I apologize for your page ending up in the category: that was a mistake, not on purpose.

Please note that Commons:Naming categories#Categories by CRITERION is an inactive page. It has a note at the top that says "This page is presently inactive and retained primarily for historical interest." In the past, it was not always well understood that the "by name" piece of a category name doesn't always mean a metacategory. Not long ago, the metacat template was removed from many "by name" categories, leaving only the ones that grouped things that had the same name. I tried to get the naming convention changed a while back so that the difference would be clear from the category names, but few people were interested. --Auntof6 (talk) 09:06, 11 October 2016 (UTC)

Juhani Toukosen maalaus eversti Latikaisesta

Mitä pitäisi tehdä, jotta maalaus eversti Laatikaisesta jäisi wikimediaan? 1Eetu5 (talk) 16:34, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

Lisäsin kuvasivulle {{Painting}}-mallineen. Kannattaa käydä täydentämässä siihen tietoja, ainakin lähde (Source).

Jos taiteilijan antama OTRS-lupa kattaa myös sinun lataamasi kuvan (niin kuin poistokeskustelussa sanot), käsittääkseni sinun ei sen osalta tarvitse tehdä mitään: jossain vaiheessa ylläpitäjä käy tarkastamassa luvan sisällön ja päättää poistokeskustelun "Kept"-merkinnällä. Tähän saattaa mennä jonkin aikaa (muutamia viikkojakin), mutta ei kuvaa kuitenkaan poisteta selvittämättä OTRS-luvan sisältöä. ––Apalsola ^{t • c} 17:02, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

Suuret kiitokset avustasi ja neuvoistasi. Helppoa ei ollut, vietin paljon aikaa yrittäessäni ymmärtää asiaa. Apusi oli tosi tarpeellista.1Eetu5 (talk) 14:47, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

Generosity Crowdfunding Campaign for User:The Photographer

Please excuse me spamming you, which concerns Generosity Crowdfunding Campaign. My contributions cover the architecture and culture of Brazil and Venezuela. I has basic photographic equipment: an old D300 camera and 35mm lens, and it is very expensive for me to acquire this equipment. I has recently taken several images using the technique where multiple frames are stitched together to create a high-resolution panorama. However, many times frustrated with the stitching errors that result from trying to take such photos without a proper panoramic head for his tripod. This special equipment permits the camera to be rotated around the entrance pupil of the lens, and eliminates such errors. Having a panoramic head would greatly increase the potential for The Photographer to create sharp high-resolution images for Commons. In addition, the purchase of a camera with a fisheye lens would enable 180 × 360° panoramas to be taken, which are a great way to explore a scene as though one is really there.

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Kirkkoja Suomessa?

Tämä kuva esiintyy sivullasi "Churches in Finland". Mitä tekemistä sillä on kirkkojen kanssa? JIP (talk) 21:04, 27 March 2017 (UTC)

Itse olen samaa joskus ihmetellyt. Johtuu siitä, että Mannerheimintie kuuluu Churches in Finland\Evangelical Lutheran Church of Finland\Lutheran churches in Finland\Lutherans from Finland\Carl Gustaf Emil Mannerheim\ -kategoriaan. Mannerheim on muuten yksi neljästä suomalaisesta luterilaisesta (pl. piispat) commonsin mukaan --Estormiz (talk) 09:02, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

Joo, noin minäkin sen päättelin. Nuo sivut ovat siis botin tekemiä, ja automatiikallekin tulee joskus huti. :-) Apalsola ^{t • c} 09:25, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

Botin asetuksiin tehdyn muutoksen jälkeen tätä ongelmaa ei pitäisi enää esiintyä.

Sinänsä Category:Lutherans from Finland -luokan mielekkyydestä voi olla monta mieltä: jos pelkkä kirkon jäsenyys riittää perusteeksi, sinne voisi edelleen laittaa noin 70 prosenttia suomalaisista, historiallisista henkilöistä puhumattakaan. (Tässä toki oletetaan, että kirkon jäsenyys on yleisesti tiedossa; lähtökohtaisestihan se on yksityisasia.) ––Apalsola ^{t • c} 12:45, 28 June 2017 (UTC)

Category:Boeing_777-200ER_of_Malaysia_Airlines_aircraft_at_Zurich_International_Airport

Category:Boeing_777-200ER_of_Malaysia_Airlines_aircraft_at_Zurich_International_Airport has been listed at Commons:Categories for discussion so that the community can discuss ways in which it should be changed. We would appreciate it if you could go to voice your opinion about this at its entry. If you created this category, please note that the fact that it has been proposed for discussion does not necessarily mean that we do not value your kind contribution. It simply means that one person believes that there is some specific problem with it. If the category is up for deletion because it has been superseded, consider the notion that although the category may be deleted, your hard work (which we all greatly appreciate) lives on in the new category. In all cases, please do not take the category discussion personally. It is never intended as such. Thank you!

feminist (talk) 13:49, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

Bot edits reverts

To remove doublings of template Countries of Europe, please, remove it from the other template, not from the page itself, because my bot will consider the template missing from the page and could put it back over and over again. --TohaomgTohaomg (talk) 09:15, 13 April 2017 (UTC)

Well, in that case you need to reconfigure your bot. As I already stated in your talk page, this kind of templates should be added to the template, not to individual pages. ––Apalsola ^{t • c} 09:17, 13 April 2017 (UTC)

Finnish desricption

Hi Apalsola, thank you for adding Finnish description to my photo. If you are willing, you're welcome to add Finnish description to any of my photos, even all of them :)
Sincerely yours,
Skelanard (talk) 12:05, 7 November 2017 (UTC)