User talk:Alexis Jazz/Proposal incubator

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Incubator goals[edit]

  • Make it easier to make a proposal. There is no real process currently to shape a proposal with community help.
  • Filter out all the threads that either can't be voted on, nobody wants to vote on or that only lead to long discussions with hardly any votes on Commons:Village pump/Proposals.
  • Draw more traffic to Commons:Village pump/Proposals by having a box at the top of Commons:Village pump and similar pages containing like this (this box requires zero maintenance):
Currently open proposals:
  • This box could be extended with other relevant stuff:
Currently open proposals: Requests for adminship: Requests for license reviewer:
  • Roy17
  • Was already promoted
  • This is just filler
 Projects that need your help: Ex-proposals:

Incubator[edit]

I need to split the info/instructions to a separate page. Collapsed for now. - Alexis Jazz ping plz 04:25, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Donald Trung: wat denk je? Experimenteer gerust. Ik heb de pagina zo gemaakt dat je de pagina ook als template kan gebruiken ({{User:Alexis Jazz/Proposal incubator}}), dan krijg je een lijstje van voorstellen. Dit zou dan weer in een box bovenaan de village pump gezet kunnen worden om meer mensen naar de proposals pagina te lokken. De proposals pagina en incubator pagina zouden technisch identiek zijn, op de VP zou uiteraard alleen een lijst van openstaande voorstellen die de incubator hebben weten te overleven komen. - Alexis Jazz ping plz 04:45, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Ik ga effe kijken of ik de huidige dorpspomp als een sjabloon kan gebruiken, daarna "nowiki" ik het. Zonder her op te slaan kom ik tot de conclusie om iets gelijkwaardig aan {{CUR Country}} (e.g. {{Albania}}, {{Belgium}}, {{United Kingdom}}, Etc.) te gaan gebruiken. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 07:45, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
{{CUR Country|Albania}}, {{CUR Country|Belgium}}, {{CUR Country|United Kingdom}} bedoel je? Als je COM:VP als sjabloon gebruikt krijg je gewoon de volledige inhoud van de VP. Deze pagina is anders. Ik volg je niet helemaal geloof ik? - Alexis Jazz ping plz 08:42, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Ja, dat is het probleem, de hele pagina wordt dan gebruikt, is er een manier dat alleen de kopstukken worden gebruikt? --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 08:51, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Donald Trung: Ja, dat is nu precies de kunst. Er staat nu een grote knop op de projectpagina om een nieuw voorstel te incubaten (op een nieuw voorstel broeden?), druk er maar op en kijk wat het resultaat is in wikicode. - Alexis Jazz ping plz 10:19, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Ik had hem eerder uitgeprobeerd en als ik de bureaubladmodus gebruik lijkt hij te werken, maar als ik het mobiel probeer niet ook in mobiel, zie dit. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 22:52, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
 Offtopic: Trouwens is een goede vertaling van "Administrator" in het Nederlands niet een "Beheerder" sinds beheren and administreren gelijkwaardige concepten zijn? --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 07:45, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Donald Trung: is een goede vertaling. De mediawiki software gebruikt "beheerder" en "moderator" door elkaar: Hedwig in Washington is een interfacemoderator, beheerder en vertalingenbeheerder. Maar op nlwiki heten beheerders dan weer moderators?! - Alexis Jazz ping plz 08:42, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Guideline for proposals that have left the incubator stage[edit]

This section would actually go on Commons:Village pump/Proposals and/or be part of the incubator proposal.

  • Proposals must include an option to reject the proposal.
  • Proposals are left open for at least 7 days.
  • Proposals can only be closed if no votes were cast during the last 3 days.
  • No proposals shall be archived without a decision. Proposals must be accepted or rejected. Only sections with {{Section resolved}} or a similar template will be (automatically) archived.

Cosy VPP[edit]

  • VPP is a relatively low-traffic venue on Commons. I think creating a proposal incubator will make the traffic of VPP even less.
  • Commons is already a bureaucratic project (although not as heavily as the English Wikipedia). I don't like the idea of creating many narrowly-scoped and highly-specialized venues on Commons.

What problem are you going to solve by creating an incubator? I don't think it is grossly bad if a proposal fails the first time that is raised, but succeeds the second time when raised in a more mature style within a short period of time. 4nn1l2 (talk) 14:32, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@4nn1l2: I think one of the reasons for VPP to be a low-traffic venue is because too many proposals are not clear enough. For example Commons:Village pump/Proposals#Better handling of file copyright releases with source linkrot: pretty much TLDR, not well defined (it literally says "Please vote on the principle of having this guideline"), hard to vote on. If VPP is just a list of proposals that one can realistically vote on, it'll be more interesting to actually visit the place. By listing the headers at the top of the Village Pump, random visitors will be more likely to notice something and think "hey, that matters to me!" and vote on it.
On the other side, for those who consider creating a proposal, they may feel like they need to be an expert to create a proposal. And to be frank, you kind of have to be. Poorly worded proposals don't make it. I could single-handedly double the number of proposals at VPP, but I don't, for two reasons. It'll probably be overwhelming and second: I often would like a little feedback to allow me to dot the i's and cross the t's. Based on your comment, I'm now wondering if the incubator and VPP could be on a single page somehow. - Alexis Jazz ping plz 00:51, 23 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Tracked in Phabricator
Task T214464

@4nn1l2: what if we went the other way? Requests for adminship/LR are also a form of proposals. Their individual pages can continue to exist, but say the proposals page contains an overview of proposals, incubating proposals, requests for adminship and requests for license reviewer? By clicking "edit" next to the header, you're directly taken to the right page similar to (for example) Commons:Requests for checkuser or Commons:Administrators/Requests. - Alexis Jazz ping plz 08:51, 23 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

That's a great idea, because that way accepted and declined proposals as well as invalid proposals would be more easily tracked, linking to these proposals would also be easier. This would be similar to Wikidata's version, which I personally fancy over the current one we use here at the WC, which I personally find 💩. If you link to a proposal now and someone reads that a year from now they will be taken to VP/P, but will then have to go to the archives to find the specific proposal, with adminship requests this isn't the case which makes linking to them more consistent. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 19:18, 23 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Donald Trung: making links permanent is a different matter. This would require every single proposal to be on its own page, just like RfA and Checkuser requests, which means they have to be listed when created (could be done by a gadget I guess) and unlisted when no longer relevant, just like RfA and Checkuser now. - Alexis Jazz ping plz 03:24, 24 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@4nn1l2: take this CropTool discussion for example. Beyond My Ken doesn't use CropTool and doesn't use {{Extracted from}} for crops. At least part of the reason is because they prefer to see a larger and possibly differently placed thumbnail. Something that is well worth considering, but will require consensus because the template is widely used. But instead of proposing to improve {{Extracted from}}, they uploaded hundreds of images without the template. I would hope to see more proposals for issues like that. - Alexis Jazz ping plz 09:03, 24 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Lanceer het toch gewoon, man![edit]

Dit zijn allemaal geweldige ideeën en het creëren van aparte sub-pagina's zal de voorstellen dorpspomp flink verbeteren, lanceer je ideeën toch gewoon, man. Die "doos" waar alle beheerderverzoeken, verzoeken om commentaar, Etc. in staat is een geweldig idee en zal meer ogen op gemeenschapsdebatten zetten en jou hervormingen voor hoe de voorstellen dorpspomp werkt is een geweldig idee. Er is geen reden om zo lang met het uitbrengen te wachten. Als je al een paar ideeën aan de gemeenschap in de dorpspomp voorlegt kan je al op je toekomstige verbeteringen concentreren. Geduld is misschien een deugd, maar te lang wachten is een zonde. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 09:42, 10 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Donald Trung: die "doos" is nu technisch nog niet goed mogelijk. Voor alle pagina's die in de doos worden weergegeven werkt inclusion niet meer, waardoor een overzichtspagina met alle discussies niet meer mogelijk is. We hebben dus phab:T214464 nodig (kan lang duren) of een bot moet de "doos" invullen. Ik heb een verzoek gedaan daarvoor: Commons:Bots/Work requests#Current events box. Op dit moment zit ik nog even met DWDD in mijn maag. Daar moet ik al het derivate werk nog uit verwijderen, binnen een paar weken, daar moet ik eerst een oplossing voor bouwen en 280 videos doorlopen. Lukt hopelijk wel, maar alle andere dingen staan even op de lange baan. - Alexis Jazz ping plz 14:04, 10 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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