Template talk:PD-old-assumed

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120 years[edit]

The period of 120 years is based on a community discussion including a vote. Do not change this period without clear evidence that the community has changed its mind since this vote. Jcb (talk) 22:56, 2 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Improvement suggestion[edit]

It would be nice if the template had a parameter for the date of creation, if known. Similar to "deathyear" in {{PD-old-auto-1923}}. Gestumblindi (talk) 20:53, 16 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Also, how about a combined tag such as "PD-old-assumed-1923" for works created more than 120 years ago and published before 1923? So we wouldn't need to add a separate US PD-1923 tag. Gestumblindi (talk) 20:55, 16 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Feel free to create such improvements. I am not so familiar with the code. I have created this template so that we at least had something that we could use. Jcb (talk) 20:59, 16 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I think it's an appropriate template that will probably see quite a lot of use in the future. I'm not a coder either, so whom should/could we ask? Gestumblindi (talk) 21:15, 16 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Multichill maybe? Or we could ask in the Village Pump? If anyone who is not an admin wants to work on this, please ping me and I will unprotect the template. Jcb (talk) 21:19, 16 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Well, Multichill wasn't active in the last few days, so let's wait for a while, maybe he'll chime in. - By the way, I think that there a probably thousands, maybe tens of thousands of files currently tagged as "PD-old" that are, in fact, rather "PD-old-assumed" and should use this new, more precise template. Do you think we should try to change these systematically or on a case-by-case basis? Gestumblindi (talk) 16:29, 17 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
A systematic action seems very time consuming to me, prepared to the limited gain. If I come accross a file tagged with {PD-old} where {PD-old-assumed} would be better, I change it. This would apply to files with only a limited time span. Files from e.g. over 150 years old will be safe anyway. Jcb (talk) 15:18, 18 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Jcb: @Gestumblindi: @Ankry: Hi I have found this discussion. These are my ideas for possible improvement: 1. remove the part with the text about the theoretically uncertain situation outside of the template (let us call it assumption boilerplate AB) 2. build a new template PD-old-assumed-expired (in both templates we would use the common AB), so that it also includes the tag for USA. You can see the effect on my site project at the bottom of the page, of course hardcoded not as a template. BTW It should be also considered to change the exact wording of the AB-text. It is well possible on wikisource that we would like to work with a text that was published about 100 years ago, we do not know the exact year of death. However we can trace the works of this author till about 125 years ago – it is still conform with the idea of this template but it does not fit the exact wording of the template. Editing of the template is not a big issue, I suppose. Draco flavus (talk) 20:16, 13 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Draco flavus: Sounds like a reasonable proposal to me. Gestumblindi (talk) 18:26, 16 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Draco flavus: Take a look at {{PD-old-assumed-expired}}. It should look very similar to the last example on your sandbox page. It is derived from {{PD-old-assumed}} with shared resources in much the same was as {{PD-old-auto-expired}} is derived from {{PD-old-auto}} with shared resources. {{PD-old-assumed}} and {{PD-old-assumed-expired}} now share translations at Template:PD-old-assumed-text, Template:PD-US-expired-text, and Template:PD-old-warning-text. —RP88 (talk) 06:16, 17 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Category PD Old? No, PD-Old are files that are certainly free.[edit]

{{Editprotected}} Why in Category:PD Old. It ihmo must put files in a maintenance category like category:PD Old (assumed) or similar. With an advice in the category that files could be not in PD-Old and should be checked. This category could be also a subcategory of category:Unidentified artists or at least linked to category:Unidentified artists.--Pierpao.lo (listening) 09:07, 23 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

✓ Done I've changed the template to categorize files into category:PD Old (assumed). I did not make category:PD Old (assumed) a subcategory of category:Unidentified artists as {{PD-old-assumed}} might be used on pages with known authors with unknown dates of death. —RP88 (talk) 18:31, 23 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Suggestion for improvement 2: not 70 years pma countries[edit]

We could add a parameter (e.g. the first: 1=) for countries where it's not 70 years after the death of the author. For instance New Zealand, where 50 years are considered for photographs. Using {{PD-old-assumed|1=50}}  would change the text from "The copyright situation of this work is theoretically uncertain, because in the country of origin copyright lasts 70 years after the death of the author, and the date of the author's death is unknown. However, the date of creation of the work was over 120 years ago…" to "The copyright situation of this work is theoretically uncertain, because in the country of origin copyright lasts 50 years after the death of the author, and the date of the author's death is unknown. However, the date of creation of the work was over 100 years ago…". What do you reckon? --Ruthven (msg) 19:21, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Seems a good idea to me. en:List of countries' copyright lengths shows quite some countries with a PMA+50 rule. Jcb (talk) 21:23, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
✓ Done --Ruthven (msg) 13:07, 28 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Ruthven and Jcb: Shortening the 120 years term to 100 years for pma50 countries was not justified by the related discussion. I suggest reverting this change, especially as the 120y opinion of many users might be related to the 120y post creation term used in US for works of authors with unknown death date. Ankry (talk) 04:27, 12 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Although some people referred to the US copyright rules, the main discussion was based on the question how long an author would have lived after creation of the work, so I strongly disagree with your opinion. I do think the discussion gives sufficient base for 100 years for PMA+50 countries and e.g. 130 years for PMA+80 countries (Spain). Jcb (talk) 11:09, 12 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The reasoning in the discussion was mainly based on the average life expectancy, so it fits perfectly with the above explanation by Jcb. --Ruthven (msg) 09:16, 13 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Translation[edit]

Why is here no translation like in Template:PD-old-text? --HerrAdams (talk) 12:14, 28 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@HerrAdams: Now it is translatable; you can provide translations here. Ankry (talk) 19:59, 11 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Ankry: : below the translation into Dutch (nl): Please note I added in Dutch "...reasonable assumption that the copyright has expired AT THE MOMENT THE TEMPLATE WITH THIS NOTICE WAS ADDED TO THIS WORK"
De situatie rond het auteursrecht van dit werk is in theorie onzeker. Volgens de wetgeving van het land waar dit werk is gemaakt rust er auteursrecht op dit werk tot 70 jaar na het overlijden van de maker; het is echter niet bekend wanneer de maker van dit werk is overleden. Het werk is echter meer dan 120 jaar geleden gemaakt. Daarom is het redelijk om aan te nemen dat het auteursrecht - ten tijde van het plaatsen van het sjabloon met deze melding - was vervallen. (U kunt [[Commons:Village pump/Copyright/Archive/2017/03#Cut-off date for the PD-old template|hier]] de gevoerde discussie over dit onderwerp nalezen). Gebruik dit sjabloon niet als de overlijdensdatum van de maker van het werk wél bekend is.
Thank you so much for making translation possible. Elly (talk) 21:11, 11 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
✓ Done Ankry (talk) 04:14, 12 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Edit Request[edit]

{{Edit request}} Substitute "and it is thus a reasonable assumption" for "and so it is a reasonable assumption". It's better grammar. Jarnsax (talk) 00:02, 13 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Gestumblindi (talk) 20:17, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

here-link[edit]

{{Edit request}} ... should be to here not to here. --Habitator terrae (talk) 14:45, 22 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Gestumblindi (talk) 20:18, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Update US tag link[edit]

{{Edit request}} The link for "United States public domain tag" should be updated to point too Commons:Copyright tags/Country-specific tags#United States of America rather than Commons:Copyright tags#United States. --bjh21 (talk) 10:58, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Bjh21: That text and link is not in this template itself, but in the embedded {{PD-old-warning-text}} which is used for the whole PD-old family of templates. It isn't even protected, so you could have updated it yourself, but I have done it now :-) Gestumblindi (talk) 13:13, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Year parameter errors[edit]

{{Edit request}} Two errors need to be fixed:

  • The transclusion of {{PD-old-text}} references the |deathyear= parameter, which is not used here, rather than the correct |duration= parameter. As a result, using |duration= but not |deathyear= renders the former parameter's value invisible in this instance.
  • The transclusion of {{PD-old-warning-text}} is hardwired to use the 70 years pma text, even though values other than 70 can be used for |duration=.

Thank you. -BRAINULATOR9 (TALK) 01:10, 17 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Please be specific on what you want changed. 1989 (talk) 16:08, 1 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Why is the warning text always displayed? Please add a way to deactivate it.[edit]

{{Edit request}} I don't like that the warning text is always displayed. There should be a way to avoid this, having a copyright-conscious editor in mind who is doing his best to follow all the rules and laws.
One approach would be for the template to recognize if it is being invoked from inside a "PD-US" template: "Ah ok, it's PD-US, disable the warning text..."
Or you could give users of the template more responsibility (and opportunity to abuse) by simply adding a "nowarn" field that deactivates the warning message if set to "1" or "yes". --ΟΥΤΙΣ (talk) 05:00, 18 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Please be specific on what you want changed. 1989 (talk) 16:05, 1 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@ΟΥΤΙΣ: I've added a hide_us_warning parameter to this template that will hide the "You must also include a United States public domain tag" warning. I've also updated {{PD-US-expired}} to set this value if called with a name of the license template that applies to the work in its country of first publication. Don't use this flag to hide the warning unless a US tag is also present. —RP88 (talk) 09:14, 16 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I won't. Thanks a lot for your work. --ΟΥΤΙΣ (talk) 09:32, 16 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Actually the name of the parameter is used-with-US, not hide_us_warning, sorry about mistake above. —RP88 (talk) 01:06, 17 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Restore old X+50 years behaviour[edit]

{{Edit request}} The old behaviour of this template, when the duration parameter was changed to a value <70 (usually 50 or 60) was "...because in the country of origin copyright lasts X years after the death of the author, and the date of the author's death is unknown. However, the date of creation of the work was over X+50 years ago" (so for a 50 years p.m.a country, it would say "the date of creation of the work was 100 years ago").

The current behaviour has changed to "However, the date of creation of the work was over 120 years ago" no matter what value below 70 is inputted for the duration parameter. This is different from what the consensus is (see § Suggestion for improvement 2: not 70 years pma countries above).

Could the old template behaviour be restored? Please let me know (ping me) if you need clarification on the request --ShyAlpaca482 (talk) 01:13, 24 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

More specifically, I would like the template behaviour (not the translations or grammar, as I believe those are fine) as of Special:Permalink/425790215 to be restored. --ShyAlpaca482 (talk) 01:24, 24 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Pinging @RP88: NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh 13:18, 25 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
✓ Done in Special:Diff/619465469 and Special:Diff/619465510. I have made changes to accommodate your needs as best I can. If you see anything wrong with my changes or there is anything you would like to see changed further, please let me know. --TKsdik8900 (talk) 13:12, 5 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@TKsdik8900: Thank you for your edit! It was not quite what I intended, so allow me to clarify.
Could you replace the line |{{PD-old-assumed-text|duration={{{X|X}}}|ago={{#if: {{{early|}}}|{{{X}}}+50|{{Max|{{#expr:{{{X|70}}}+50}}|120}}}}|lang={{{lang|{{int:lang}}}}} }} with |{{PD-old-assumed-text|duration={{{X|X}}}|ago={{#expr:{{{X|70}}}+50}}|120}}|lang={{{lang|{{int:lang}}} }} in Template:PD-old-assumed/core, as it currently stands on Template:PD-old-assumed/core/sandbox]? --ShyAlpaca482 (talk) 11:55, 6 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@ShyAlpaca482: Sorry I missed the earlier ping. In your suggested code you passed three arguments to the {{PD-old-assumed-text}} template: duration, ago, and an anonymous third "1" argument with a value of "120". You also no longer pass the "lang" argument, instead adding it to the enclosing table. I'm not sure what your intentions were with these changes, so I assumed they were typos. Rather than making these changes, I reverted to the earlier code and removed the use of the {{Max}} template. Does that do what you want? —RP88 (talk) 17:47, 6 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
That is what I intended to mean (my code likely involved typos, I'm not quite familiar enough with how templates work in Wikipedia yet to be able to code my own). Thank you for your work! --ShyAlpaca482 (talk) 18:10, 6 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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