Template talk:Categorise

Note: {{Categorize}} redirects to {{Categorise}}. So either the British or American English spelling works for this template. The default English text is at Template:Categorise/en. Here is a link that lists all the language subpages, layout subpage, etc.: Special:PrefixIndex/Template:Categorise. See Template:Categorise/layout for layout. See Template:Categorise/doc for documentation, and for an easy way to create more language versions.

Merge templates

I think these 2 templates can be merged:

• {{Categorise}}
• {{CatDiffuse}}

I like the graphic and the blue background. I like the title,

"This category is a main category."

I like the rounded corners.

I may try merging into {{Categorise}} since it is already in more languages, and is a simpler template name to remember. Also, {{Categorize}} merges into {{Categorise}}

I am not good at formatting the margins, borders, corners, etc.. Maybe someone else can help with that. --Timeshifter 19:11, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

I do like the look, but I think we need two templates. One to signify that it's a main category and one to say the category needs diffusion. Right now, this adds categories like CommonsRoot are added to Categories requiring diffusion, but aren't currently requiring any maintenance. I think the rounded corners should go also. It doesn't match anything else. Rocket000 06:37, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Does {{CatDiffuse}} add categories to Category:Categories requiring diffusion also? I am not sure we want people constantly adding and removing the templates from categories depending on whether it is currently overpopulated or not. It makes more sense to leave the templates on categories as a preventive measure, too, in my opinion. --Timeshifter 23:34, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, it does. One of the templates would be used like {{Backlog}} when the category really needs attention. Rocket000 07:34, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

I feel, like the original poster, that this should preferably be merged. On two many categories we have BOTH templates, which is absolute overkill, and of little use - especially to the few users who actually do work on categorisation as a consistent Commons activity. At the least, we should have a rule that once template has to REPLACE the other, rather than having both. Ingolfson (talk) 04:55, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

{{Categorise}} again

Note: This was started on user talk pages.

I don't think that including Category:Categories requiring diffusion to {{Categorise}} (1) (and thereby mixing up with {{CatDiffuse}}) was a good idea.
I created categorise to informate everyone who visits the page that the he/she should move new uploads or whatever into the right subcategory. I would say that catdiffuse was made for overcrowded categories as Category:Fractals was.
Maybe there should be an extra category for categorise.
catdiffuse: "This category requires frequent maintenance to avoid becoming too large."
categorise: "This is a main category or subcategory requiring diffusion."
sounds nearly the same for me. If it's possible I want to revert the text of categorise to that version where the "this is a main category" got mixed up with some kind of 'should be cleaned up'.
I've created User:D-Kuru/Template:Categorise/2.0 where I want to try out some new forms and designs. I tried out how it would look like if there wouldn't be any picture at all. It wouldn't look as good as it looks now, but there is no big difference. The picture should be some kind of an eyecather... Maybe you want to add some ideas on User talk:D-Kuru/Template:Categorise/2.0 :-)
--D-Kuru (talk) 21:45, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

I checked the number of pages transcluding {{CatDiffuse}} versus {{Categorise}}. See:

• http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Categorise&limit=500
• http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:CatDiffuse&limit=500

{{Categorise}} is already more popular. Probably because it is named with one word instead of combining parts of 2 words. So it is easier to remember. Plus it better captures the attention of people. The overall design is good. The image tells people not to file stuff here. So the image is important in my opinion.

{{CatDiffuse}} says "This category requires frequent maintenance to avoid becoming too large." That is not as clear. It makes it sound like it is OK to file stuff here most of the time.

We could ask people to remove the templates from categories once their images are all categorized in subcategories. That might help. --Timeshifter (talk) 22:10, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

"The overall design is good." I agree, but maybe we can create a better one...

Who would be as crazy and would clean up several categories?

I redisigned the template again [User:D-Kuru/Template:Categorise/2.0#2]: It's a big bigger now and I included a link to possible tutorial page. I think that a small tutorial is essential, because a) Category:CommonsRoot is the main category of all main categories and b) it's more effective if you can just copy something. Of course the tutorial should be available in several languages. Tell me what you think about it

--D-Kuru (talk) 16:46, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Commons:Categories is already linked from the template. It is a tutorial. I believe that "Search for more categories here" is essential to the template. If you also want to link to a short tutorial that is a good idea. Maybe a link from something short like this:

"Short tutorial"

I don't think though that it needs to be separated to the right as "How to categorise?" is now.

I think people much prefer smaller templates. So it is better in my opinion to keep the text down to 2 lines on most monitors. --Timeshifter (talk) 17:59, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Commons:Categories is too much information for new people on commons. I don't know many users who really read instructions on commons. I'm sure that many people don't read this instructions, because reading them is much longer than dooing the wrong thing. Commons:Categories gives now quick information for questions which turnes up while working. People categorise image in a flase category, because it would take much more time to read everything. (I know that you don't need to read everything so that you're able to create new categories, but new users don't know)

Category:CommonsRoot is too big for many users, because they don't know where they can find something (I think that even I would have to search for a quite long time). Because users, who worked on commons for some time, usually know what they do and how to do it, they usually don't need Commons:Categories and Category:CommonsRoot. Maybe a link to the categorysystem of Commons is essential, but I think Category:CommonsRoot is the wrong way.

The idea of separting the template is that you see an empty space where you find that what you (maybe) searched for. A big template with a bit free space is maybe for eyecatching than a small, crowded one. Short Tutorial is a good idea, because it tell everybody exactly that what it should be.

No matter if people like small templates or not. I don't want to include much more text than there is already written.

Category:Bong vs. Category:Bongs - An admin told some time ago that you usually use the plural for categorynames. For example: Category:Spoons, Category:Automobiles, Category:Trees,... If not possible (Category:Joint) or there is no plural (Category:Yellow) you use the singular of course. It's also written on Commons:Categories: "Category names that refer to objects or groups of people should generally be in plural form: Category:Tools, Category:Artists, Category:Lakes, etc, as opposed to Category:History, Category:Weather, Category:Music."

--D-Kuru (talk) 18:55, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

I don't think there should be 2 categories Category:Bong and Category:Bongs. I agree that the plural version is better. But unless someone moves many of the images then the singular version is better for now in my opinion. In other words, creating a second category without moving many of the images is confusing to most people. I guess a category redirect could be added to the singular category. I just noticed only one image in Category:Bongs, and no category redirect from Category:Bong. So people would not find all the images.

If you can find a short tutorial, then you could link to it from {{Categorise}}. At the top of the short tutorial a link to the long tutorial could be added. This way people could look for more answers in the long tutorial if necessary.

Do you know a better place to start browsing for categories than Category:CommonsRoot? I don't. It is not linked from the sidebar, and so I think it is important to link to it from the template. Most readers have never been there, or even know how to get there. --Timeshifter (talk) 05:01, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

I told a bot to move all files from cat:bong to cat:bongs, but it seems that the bot is a bit busy right now. I think that it just takes a bit more time.

There is no short tutorial, because on commons everything has to mentioned in the same infopage (don't ask why). I also thought about including a link to com:cat. I thought about a "basic tutorial" an an "advanced tutorial" on a different page or with a new headline (depends on how big the basic tutorial will be).

There is a good entrance on the german main page of commons. Have a look at the right half side at the translated version of translate.google.com. In the top right corner is a short list of categories which could be used.
I know that the whole right side would be too large for a small template, but I'm sure that there is a good way to include it.

--D-Kuru (talk) 10:54, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Can we copy this thread to Template talk:Categorise? It is less work than keeping up 2 threads on 2 talk pages.

Where does one ask for this type of bot help? I could use it for changing category names.

What is com:cat? It is red-linked.

I think the Main Page would be better than Category:CommonsRoot for people to search for more categories. So we could change that link in the template.

A basic tutorial would be helpful. --Timeshifter (talk) 15:10, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Good idea. You can copy it.
You can ask for that servive on User_talk:CommonsDelinker/commands. For moving a category just place {{move cat|old name|new name}} below "move requests".
com:cat should be COM:Cat
--D-Kuru (talk) 15:49, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Edit: Seems that the bot has some problems right now. Only a few edits a day isn't the ordinary day.
--D-Kuru (talk) 16:01, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. I bookmarked that page. I think for now we should have links to COM:Cat and the Main Page. So the text would be something like:

This is a main category or subcategory requiring diffusion. As many pictures and media files as possible should be moved into the right subcategories. New subcategories can be created. See this basic tutorial. Search for more categories here.

We need a link to a basic or short tutorial. Then we can get rid of the link to COM:Cat, and move that link to the top of the basic tutorial page.

A variation on the text:

This is a main category or subcategory requiring diffusion. As many pictures and media files as possible should be moved into the right subcategories. New subcategories can be created. See this basic tutorial. Images may need to be categorized in multiple categories. Search for more categories here.

That makes 3 lines of text, though, instead of 2 lines on my 17-inch monitor. --Timeshifter (talk) 16:45, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Even the main page is clearer composed than cat:comroots I think that including the main page is still too difficult for new users (They may don't see the listed categories). I would say that there should be a subpage where you could search for the theme you want to put your media file in. Could look like as the list on the main page, but there should be for each part a different colour. (For example: grey for technic, blue for sience, maybe a rainbowcolourmix for flowers,...)

I like that the possible link to a tutorial is included, but it's still too small to be the light in the dark of wtf-shel-I-do-now? (Especially below the ''' text at the beginning. I would move the information, that images can be categorised in different categories, to the tutorial page. The information that an appletree can be in category appletrees and flowering aplletrees but shouldn't be in category trees

"We need a [...] short tutorial. Then we can [...] that link to the top of the basic tutorial page." 100% agree!

--D-Kuru (talk) 16:58, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Example templates

(Unindent) I think it is essential to give people permission to immediately start categorizing in multiple categories. And to create subcategories even if they don't read any how-to pages. Otherwise much less will get done in categorization in my opinion. I think another reason {{Categorise}} has become so popular is that it gives newbies permission to jump right in. Learn by doing.

I think there have been studies done that show that making people click links discourages many people from taking action. I think the studies show that info should be presented to people on the first page. It should be optional to click the link for more info. How about something like this:

	This is a main category or subcategory requiring diffusion. As many pictures and media files as possible should be moved into the right subcategories. New subcategories can be created. Images may need to be categorized in multiple categories. Search for more categories here.	See this basic tutorial.

It gives the basic tutorial link more prominence. Here is another version:

	This is a main category or subcategory requiring diffusion. As many pictures and media files as possible should be moved into the right subcategories. New subcategories can be created. Images may need to be categorized in multiple categories. Search for more categories here.	Basic tutorial.

This version separates things a little better. --Timeshifter (talk) 17:36, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

In my opnion the first version seperates the the tutorial link and the text not so good as the second one does.

However, the yellow field in the second version looks a bit nonprofessional.

	This is a main category or subcategory requiring diffusion. As many pictures and media files as possible should be moved into the right subcategories. New subcategories can be created. Images may need to be categorised in multiple categories. Search for more categories here.	Short tutorial

The Differences:

1) images is 10px larger

2) Renamed "Basic tutorial" to "Short tutorial"

3) Removed dot after "short tutorial"

4) Removed yellow backround

5) "categorized" to "categorised"

6) removed the link to the main page

7) New row for "New subcategories [...]"

add 1: The small image was as big as the text. I think that it's better scaled if the pic is slightly bigger

add 2: Basic tutorials can still be demotivating, because of their size. ("Short basic tutorial" is also possible, but I was to lazy to correct the width of the third column just for this example)

add 3: There is no real use of it

add 4: As I wrote: It looks a bit nonprofessional

add 5: Even it's not important I prefer BE

add 6: Because the Main page is not the best way to find categories I would include a seperated category page.

add 7: I think that it looks better if the new sentence starts in a new row. There would only be the "new" in row 1.

I think that we think the same if I say that there should be a link to com:cat, the possible category subpage and the advanced tutorial page.

--D-Kuru (talk) 15:04, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

(unindent) I agree on the links, though I think you meant to write "Short basic tutorial." COM:Cat is the advanced tutorial page. I would use Main Page until a possible category subpage is created.

I did not know what this meant at first: "add 5: Even it's not important I prefer BE"

Now I see that BE stands for British English, and that it is referring to this:

5) "categorized" to "categorised"

I don't know enough about template and style code to make the text fit better in the yellow background. We can remove that box anyway until a short tutorial page is created.

Here is a revised template below with the larger image. That larger image is OK now that there is more room due to having 3 lines instead of 2 lines of text. I don't think the template looks good with laddered text though. So I suggest making it one paragraph. It takes less space too, and people prefer smaller templates since there are oftentimes several templates on a category page.

	This is a main category or subcategory requiring diffusion. As many pictures and media files as possible should be moved into the right subcategories. New subcategories can be created. Images may need to be categorised in multiple categories. Search for more categories here.	Short basic tutorial

I tried getting some cell padding code, and other code, to work in the yellow box in order to center the text better. But no luck so far. Maybe others can fix that.

We might put another image there for now. Where is that other image you found?

	This is a main category or subcategory requiring diffusion. As many pictures and media files as possible should be moved into the right subcategories. New subcategories can be created. Images may need to be categorised in multiple categories. Search for more categories here. See also this short basic tutorial.

Do you have any ideas for another image to put on the right side? In the above template I used another way to highlight the short tutorial link. I used a link to the CatDiffuse talk page, Template talk:CatDiffuse, just as an example link. We might create short tutorial pages as subpages of Template:Categorise. Something like:

Template:Categorise/Short tutorial

Template:Categorise/Find more categories

They are red links for now. --Timeshifter (talk) 20:08, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

"I don't know enough about template and style code [...]" Me too, but by a lucky coincidence we are in the wikipedian system and I'm sure that we can find somewhere somebody who is able to do it.

You're right. I didn't mind that people with smaller monitors will see the text (with <br/>) a little bit different.

Surely we should use the Main Page as long as there is no categorisation-help-subpage.

I don't know which image you exactly mean. If you mean that one with one folder at the top and three folders below connected with three red arrows: This was a one-minute-graphic created by using microsoft word. This image would might make the template a bit too large.

Even I like the idea of the second image you cancel thereby the space for the tutorial link which should be placed somewhere outside of the text, so that you see it if you look at the template the first time.

Even the yellow box doesn't fit in the template very well (colour and shape) it is deffinitelly an eyecatcher. I tried to remodelling it:

	This is a main category or subcategory requiring diffusion. As many pictures and media files as possible should be moved into the right subcategories. New subcategories can be created. Images may need to be categorised in multiple categories. Search for more categories here.	short basic tutorial

Differences:

1) I made the yellow box for the tutorial box as round as the template box is. Maybe it's possible to move it a bit highter so that distance between the top border of the template and the box and the right border of the template and the box are equal.

2) The backround of the tutorial box is a bit brighter.

3) A 1px border for the tutorial box otherwise it would look like "Test 2" below.

4) I included the subpagelinks Template:Categorise/tutorial (instead of "Template:Categorise/Short tutorial", because it's shorter if you want exactly that page). COM:Cattu could a redirect to the tutorial (as COM:Cat; "tu" is shortcut for tutorial). Template:Categorise/categories (instead of Template:Categorise/Find more categories; same reason as above)

5) I blued the text so that you see the colours (red text in a yellow box looks different that blue text in a yellow box)

6) I placed <center> to center the text in the tutorial box. It is also possblie with align="center", but it didn't work here (I don't know why). Maybe it's also possible to include it in style="align:center", but that didn't work too.

7) Below you see 3 tests: 1) Yellow border but the same backround as the template 2) No border, the backroundcolour is the same as it is in the version above 3) As 2 but darker backroundcolour.
I prefer the version above, because in my opinion it's just the best on of these four.

Test 1

	This is a main category or subcategory requiring diffusion. As many pictures and media files as possible should be moved into the right subcategories. New subcategories can be created. Images may need to be categorised in multiple categories. Search for more categories here.	short basic tutorial

Test 2

	This is a main category or subcategory requiring diffusion. As many pictures and media files as possible should be moved into the right subcategories. New subcategories can be created. Images may need to be categorised in multiple categories. Search for more categories here.	short basic tutorial

Test 3

	This is a main category or subcategory requiring diffusion. As many pictures and media files as possible should be moved into the right subcategories. New subcategories can be created. Images may need to be categorised in multiple categories. Search for more categories here.	short basic tutorial

May we should include a subheadline so that you don't have to scroll down if you click on the preview button.

--D-Kuru (talk) 11:38, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Good work! I like the one you like. The one with the border around "short basic tutorial". I added a talk section subheading. --Timeshifter (talk) 17:48, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Template update

I updated the template with the new text. I linked to the Main Page for now: Search for more categories here.

Here is the current template:

	This is a main category or subcategory requiring diffusion. As many pictures and media files as possible should be moved into the right subcategories. New subcategories can be created. Images may need to be categorised in multiple categories. Search for more categories here.

What do you think? When we get some short tutorial pages we can link to them, and use the yellow box too.

I kept the small image for now because without the yellow box some people may see only 2 lines of text. It depends on what text size they normally use in their browser. --Timeshifter (talk) 12:00, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

The next step should be to create the tutorial so that the template can be updated.

I thought about it for quite some time, but since yet I couldn't work out what I woulöd include. It shouldn't be too hard, but it also shouldn't be to easy (some user may skip tutorial, because they think they know everything what is written in the toturial if they read the first paragraph).

At the beginning there may should be a short explanation of the difference between a category and a gallery page.

Image:Over-categorization.svg could be included, but it should also be mentioned that sometimes it's useful to multicategorise media files.

In a nutshell: There should be information for: How to change categories. How to create categories. How should categories be named (for example: plural, in english or latin,...). When multiple categorising (fe. White widow.jpg is categorised in White Widow and not also in Cannabis plants, because you know the strain. SKJ-cannabis.jpg is categorised in Cannabis plants, because Cannabis plants is categorised in Cannabis and so on). In which category should be a new categories categorised in. When new categories should be created. Not possible to change categories if they're automatically categorised by including a templte.

I know that it looks as if it wouldn't be shorter that com:cat, but I think that it will be possible to keep every topic to max. 5 lines. Add or cross out something if you have some more ideas.

--D-Kuru (talk) 12:59, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

(unindent) If you start a tutorial, I and others can help out with grammar, spelling, etc.. I am not the best person though to write the tutorial, because I believe many people (me, for example) only really learn categorization by doing it. Others, though, may prefer to read a tutorial first. So it would be good to have a short one. People like me would definitely prefer a short tutorial instead of Commons:Categories.

I think it might be helpful to many users to link also to Category:Categories. In this way: Search for more categories here and here. See template example with it below.

	This is a main category or subcategory requiring diffusion. As many pictures and media files as possible should be moved into the right subcategories. New subcategories can be created. Images may need to be categorised in multiple categories. Search for more categories here and here.

The Main Page is a good link since it is also easily accessible from the left sidebar of all pages, and so readers may soon learn to access the Main Page as a quick entry point for finding categories for categorizing images. Even I did not know until our discussion here how much better the Main Page may be as a starting point for finding categories. Versus Category:CommonsRoot for some readers.

I like Category:Categories best of all. It is linked from the Main Page, but many readers may never see it linked there. It is an excellent entry point into the category system, and its parent categories and topics. It is very intuitive to browse it, and to drill down to find categories for images. So I believe it may be good to link to it from the template. Many readers may never find the top parent categories otherwise. --Timeshifter (talk) 13:16, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Why dubble linking com:cat? (Via main category or subcategory and the second here)

I don't want to supersede the learning by doning-phase with a tutorial. I think that it's impossible to create a tutorial which tells you everything about categorisation no matter how long and detailed it is. Practise makes perfect.

Even my spelling isn't the best I think that it's better to start with the toturial instead of wating for some more users. Just because of the simple reason that we (just two persons) discussed for a quite long time how a template could look like. Imagine how long it would take for 10 people to figure out a short tutorial. New ideas can be included later.

--D-Kuru (talk) 13:56, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

I agree. I think we should start a tutorial now. COM:Cat is only linked via main category or subcategory. The second "here" link is to Category:Categories. --Timeshifter (talk) 05:03, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Village pump discussion

Commons:Village pump/Archive/2009Oct#Categorize and CatDiffuse --Timeshifter (talk) 22:41, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Category:Categories requiring permanent diffusion

Category discussion notification

Category:Categories requiring permanent diffusion has been listed at Commons:Categories for discussion so that the community can discuss ways in which it should be changed. We would appreciate it if you could go to voice your opinion about this at its entry. If you created this category, please note that the fact that it has been proposed for discussion does not necessarily mean that we do not value your kind contribution. It simply means that one person believes that there is some specific problem with it. If the category is up for deletion because it has been superseded, consider the notion that although the category may be deleted, your hard work (which we all greatly appreciate) lives on in the new category. In all cases, please do not take the category discussion personally. It is never intended as such. Thank you!

--Martin H. (talk) 11:53, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

Need help with Category:Economic inequality and Category:War casualties

See: Category:Economic inequality. How can I get Template:Categorise to allow itself to be wrapped around like {{see also cat}}? I believe the change needs to occur at Template:Categorise/layout. Is there a width parameter that allows this wrapping? I think Template:Mbox has a default of 100% width. Can that be removed by a parameter setting at Template:Categorise/layout? Is there a technical help forum on the Commons? Or a template forum?

[[File:Commons logo.svg|right|120px]]
{{en|[[w:Economic inequality|Economic inequality]]}}
{{See also cat|Social inequality|Economy by continent|Economy by country|Economic charts|Economic diagrams|Economic graphs|Economic statistics|Income|Wealth}}.
{{categorize}}

English: Economic inequality

 See also categories: Social inequality, Economy by continent, Economy by country, Economic charts, Economic diagrams, Economic graphs, Economic statistics, Income and Wealth.

.

This is a main category requiring frequent diffusion and maybe maintenance. As many pictures and media files as possible should be moved into appropriate subcategories.

There is another example at Category:War casualties.

@Nihiltres: Thought I'd ping you for some help too. --Timeshifter (talk) 04:04, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

Removing clear: both; in {{Mbox}} solved wrapping problem. Please see diff. --Timeshifter (talk) 08:06, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

Template broken? Also recurring vandalism

As of time of writing, this template (and all its usages) appears to be totally broken. In text only, it looks approximately like:

{{mbox

|type = diffusetemplates]]

</noinclude> 

I looked at {{Mbox}} and it seems fine there, but looking at the page source it seems fine? I'm not sure where the origin of the issue is, but I'm also not extremely experienced with MediaWiki templates.

Also as I was investigating this, I noticed that this page seems to be a recurring target for vandalism. Being a widely-used template, yet only semi-protected, it seems this page should be given template protection.

aismallard (talk) 20:40, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

The edit was done by an unregistered user. I protected the template to prevent such edits in the future.

--D-Kuru (talk) 09:23, 1 May 2022 (UTC)