Commons talk:Structured data/Get involved/Feedback requests/Search prototype

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The following discussion is archived. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
Thank you all for participating. Your feedback will be integrated into the development of the new search for Commons. Keegan (WMF) (talk) 16:07, 25 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The team would like prototype feedback on the following:

  • What are your thoughts on the new Ddepicts and Other statements tabs in the search bar?
  • Are you able to complete both search scenarios? Did you have difficulty performing the search? If so, please describe the issue(s).
  • Does the interface for adding qualifiers to the depicts “tags” feel intuitive? Why or why not? Does it cover all the use cases you can think of?
  • Does the “other statements” interface make sense? Why or why not? Is there anything you would add to it?

Please leave your feedback here. Keegan (WMF) (talk) 22:29, 4 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Use in illustrations[edit]

Slightly outside the scope of this but I started wonder if an old idea should be resurrected; it should be possible to link to a concept when adding an illustration in Wikipedia. That is, if I want an illustration of a cat and dog playing then I formulate a search for a cat and a dog (how would I add "playing"?), and the best match for this search is then used as the illustration.

Something like that could replace the current image replacement bots.

There should be an old bug where I described something similar. I say bug as it was added in Bugzilla. Not sure if it was ported to Phabricator. Jeblad (talk) 19:36, 5 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Jeblad: There is a current proposal on Wikidata for a new property "human position", that would be a qualifier on a "depicts:X" statement, and take values like standing (Q1986098), kneeling (Q8866546), contrapposto (Q514847), Pollice verso (Q1232302).
This would become searchable by specifying this qualifier and an appropriate value in this search interface.
It might well be worth your going to that discussion and suggesting it might be useful to broaden its proposed name and scope, eg to "depicted in pose or activity". Jheald (talk) 12:09, 8 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Interesting! Still, my idea wasn't so much about the actual properties/qualifiers, but to specify an illustration by a search, and not by an explicit reference. Kind of saying "I wan't an illustration with these properties, and it dosn't need to be anyone specific." Jeblad (talk) 21:35, 8 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Jeblad: So the same question that, inspired by this topic, I asked below: #Is_it_possible_to_search_for_just_a_qualifier_? Jheald (talk) 09:20, 9 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
You have an answer in the thread you link to. Jeblad (talk) 05:15, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Qualifiers[edit]

I find using the heading "Qualifier" for the drop-down of Creator, Genre, Depicts, etc. extremely confusing. In WD-speak, a qualifier is a modifier of a statement. These should be called Properties (or Statements), not Qualifiers. (Is this perhaps just copy error in builidng the mockup?) - PKM (talk) 20:16, 5 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I want to +1 this, and also note that the popup interface for the qualifiers is not very self explanatory -- its a new kind of facet searching that only makes sense for experienced users. I would probably prompt it with some type of copy like "What kinds of features do you want the cats to have?" or something like that, Sadads (talk) 20:31, 5 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Also the word "operator" makes no sense to someone not familiar with Boolean searching -- we might want to figure out another label for that field, Sadads (talk) 20:34, 5 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
+1 Ayack (talk) 07:57, 11 October 2018 (UTC)

+1 Wikimedia users usually use more projects. Using same naming for different things on different projects, would make it difficult. --Juandev (talk) 22:12, 17 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Switching between Keywords and Depicts[edit]

So, I typed a keyword 'cat' on the search box with 'Keywords' activated and then I pressed on 'Depicts', the word cat disappeared. I am not sure whether it's already depicted. The issue with qualifiers is already documented. I tried 'cat', 'dog' and 'tiger' with 'Depicts' with no search results for the last two. John Samuel (talk) 12:56, 6 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Adding qualifiers to depicts tags[edit]

Does the interface for adding qualifiers to the depicts tags feel intuitive?

There is no visual indication that I can add qualifiers by clicking the tag bubble. Even something like a down arrow would indicate that there are options if I click. (I'd possibly hide the "x" in that view too, to force me through the qualifiers.) I also don't know what to do with qualifiers like "symbolizes" and "applies to part" without helper text. (not watching, please {{Ping}}) czar 14:32, 6 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • +1 there is no indication that the window "Depicts statements" will be opened when clicking on the tag. Maybe you can add a little arrow after the tag (inspired from Help:Gadget-HotCat) exemple : house cat (↓)

and when you hover over the symbol with the mouse then a pop-up window write "Depicts statements". Christian Ferrer (talk) 20:41, 6 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Depicts and Other statements tabs[edit]

What are your thoughts on the new Depicts and Other statements tabs in the search bar?

Feels somewhat unnatural to be choosing between options as if they're mutually exclusive. As a user, my expectation is that to add parameters and let the search figure out the relation. If I am searching for photos of cats, the Depicts view comes the closest to my expectation—that searching "cat" and clicking "house cat" (as tag bubble) would solidify that all results will be house cats and not just hits from file descriptions. If I was only searching for keywords, I wouldn't click any of the autosuggestions, because I'm not looking to delimit my search. If I go to "Other statements" > Depicts is (house cat), why doesn't that populate the search bar with that statement. Instead I'm forced into the "Other statements" dropdowns for any other qualifiers I wish to add. I.e., why is the Depicts/Other separation necessary? Why not just construct the search as a series of bubble tags, each with drop-down options? Rhetorical/open questions. (not watching, please {{Ping}}) czar 14:43, 6 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Something related to what Czar wrote above. When searching for a Depicts (e.g. Color) I would expect to have in the Qualifier drop down menu only relative results (e.g. a list of colors). To have unrelated qualifiers is confusing (e.g. mammal, France, etc.), that's why a sort of filtering is necessary. --Ruthven (msg) 16:41, 13 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Other statements[edit]

Does the “other statements” interface make sense? Why or why not? Is there anything you would add to it?

What happens if information is (or should be) being part-drawn from Wikidata?[edit]

eg: How to search for "all images of paintings by Leonardo da Vinci" ?

Here "creator:Leonardo da Vinci" would be a statement on a Wikidata item, not a qualifier on a CommonData item. Jheald (talk) 12:48, 8 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I'll find out, and the question below as well. Keegan (WMF) (talk) 20:20, 9 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
This question has a short answer and a long answer :). The short answer is that, in this case, paintings by da Vinci would be denoted via depicts statements on the file, and for the artwork scenario the current plan (which could change) is to automatically place certain statements from the artwork's Q item into the Elasticsearch index for the media file. Let's say for example it's Mona Lisa. The scan/photo on Commons will have a statement saying "depicts Mona Lisa". The Mona Lisa Q item's statements will then automatically be added to the search index for that file. We don't know yet which statements this will apply to (maybe all? maybe some? still working on that). The long answer is more complex. In addition to adding data to the search index, we have to answer whether there should indeed be some data on the M item (the MediaInfo item stored in Wikibase@Commons) referenced or copied from the Q item on Wikidata. There is certainly a reasonable argument to be made against this. However, there are some other things we have to consider too. There are no decisions made here yet, but one idea that has been lingering for a while is the concept of "faked" statements"; they act like statements in the API and UI but are in actuality derived from another source and managed a different way. Theoretically, we might enhance Wikibase Federation with a faked statement that "links" the Creator data on the Wikidata Q item to the M item on Commons. The Wikidata item remains the canonical source but the faked statement provides a straightforward way to show relevant Wikidata data (and perhaps even provide a link to an on-Commons interface to edit said data), and we can play with UI designs to make a clear distinction between the data on the file itself and the data on the things it refers to. But, again, this is still stuff we're speccing out and testing. RIsler (WMF) (talk) 05:05, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Is it possible to search for just a qualifier ?[edit]

eg, if the proposed qualifier d:Wikidata:Property proposal/human position in artwork goes through, or something like it, is it possible to search for eg everything with the qualification "position = sitting" ? Jheald (talk) 12:52, 8 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Not yet. This could be a feature in advanced search (upcoming work) RIsler (WMF) (talk) 16:32, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Using other statements? --Juandev

Broadening a value to a class of values[edit]

This probably isn't something for version 1.0, but somewhere down the line it would be nice to be able to broaden the search parameters, to generalise a value to a class of values -- eg to turn a seach for "lion" into a search for any animal of class "felidae", or to turn a search with a value of qualifier "depicted in activity"="sitting" to "depicted in activity"= anything in class posture (Q8514257). Jheald (talk) 09:28, 9 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Good request, thank you. Keegan (WMF) (talk) 20:20, 9 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

List of "qualifiers"[edit]

Some search use cases seems not possible with this prototype:

  • Files geolocated near a place: I want to be able to enter some coordinates, a radius (1 km for example) and to find all the files geolocated in this area.
  • Filter featured pictures only (or QI)
  • Filter on image size/resolution/orientation...

Is it because the list of "qualifiers" in "other statements" is only an example? Ayack (talk) 08:43, 10 October 2018 (UTC)

Yes, this is all very early code and doesn't fully represent what we'll have in the final version. There will be many more search options later. RIsler (WMF) (talk) 16:17, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Great. Thanks. Ayack (talk) 07:58, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
Cool!--Juandev (talk) 22:27, 17 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Office[edit]

Great grouping, but is Office (in this case pdfs) a multimedia?--Juandev (talk) 21:57, 17 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  • I believe that is the name given to document files in the prototype. I anticipate it will not say that in the final version. Also, sorry for the delay in reply, I've been mostly offline for the past week. Keegan (WMF) (talk) 16:57, 24 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

More statements[edit]

I am happy to see, that it would be possible to search with more criteria at the same time. What is the beggiest issue for wmc contributors, is unability to fined their images depicting something or with certain other criteria. E.g. "Creator=Juandev, Depicts=domesticated cat", "Owner=British Museum Depicts=Farm" or "Creator=Juandev Creation range=October 1, 2016 to November 1, 2016 Location=Granada, Spain".--Juandev (talk) 21:57, 17 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Value subject of depicts[edit]

Here comes another question. This search looks like it drag depicts values from wikidata items of Wikipedia articles. But what about for non existent values. Today if you create a new value on data, you have to creat its item. (e.g. Transgas architect is Vaclav Aulicky - so you have to create an item for Vaclav Aulicky). With the image description by depicts, this will be very commons, that you will seek for values not presented on data. Will we force users, to create item for every new value of depicts statement. The actuall practice on wmc is, that you can set images to specific category, but you dont have to create the category itself.--Juandev (talk) 21:57, 17 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Ease with qualifiers[edit]

I thing we have not to provide the search under hundreds of qualifiers, that would mess it, but on the other side, it would be nice let the user set, which qualifiers, they would love to had in their search. That the advance users, may fruit from more specific qualifiers.--Juandev (talk) 21:57, 17 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Design[edit]

It took me few minutes of tests, to find out how the search works, which is not bad (and I havent red the preview page). Great job!--Juandev (talk) 21:57, 17 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The menus stop to work[edit]

I cannot, complete search scenarios. After setting depicts value I suddendly dont see menus, where I can set other criteria. Even if I reload or clear catche. Firefox. --Juandev (talk) 21:57, 17 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  • The prototype is made to work only under certain conditions, as it's not fully functioning software. It breaks outside of specific uses. That is likely what you experienced, a full functioning beta in the future should not have the same problem. Keegan (WMF) (talk) 21:30, 24 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Result layout[edit]

This might be probably for the future debate, but I wonder weather there might be more layout for search results. Its logic, that you will use a default layout, but at the moment we have such "robust" search and we incorporate semantics (wikidata) it would be nice to have more layout options (like we do in Wikidata (list, table, map, graph).--Juandev (talk) 22:15, 17 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.
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