Commons talk:Picture requests/Requests/Europe

Photographing of modern buildings in Italy and copyright

• 1. Photo request: Alitalia headquarters in Rome WhisperToMe (talk) 00:58, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

     Not possible: in Italy there is no such thing like "freedom of panorama", and that means it is not legally possible to take a picture of buildings whose architect has not been dead for 70 years. --TcfkaPanairjdde (talk) 17:08, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

     It is possible - Fair use images are allowed, and so an image of the Alitalia headquarters would be classified as fair use. However it can only be uploaded on the English Wikipedia and other Wikipedias that allow fair use. WhisperToMe (talk) 02:09, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

     It is illegal: the publisher must still comply to the law of the country where the pictures are taken, wherever he chooses to publish them. --TcfkaPanairjdde (talk) 15:15, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

     It is not illegal because Wikipedia is under United States law and not Italian law. Commons does not allow Wikipedia:Fair use images, but many other Wikipedias do. Italian courts are to be at peace with any proper fair use of Italian images. WhisperToMe (talk) 02:13, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

     It is illegal for the photographer, even if it might be legal for the publisher (a fair-use country), because the photographer is committing the crime in Italy and can be persecuted according to Italian law. If I were to take a picture of the building and give it to you to publish, e.g., on en.wiki, the Italian court could not ask Wikimedia to remove the images from the servers (as you said, they are in USA and therefore the must follow US laws), but they can persecute me in Italy. This is the reason why it.wikipedia does not allow fair use images even if its servers are in the US. --TcfkaPanairjdde (talk) 16:22, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

1. The photographer doesn't have to be an Italian citizen. He could be from another country, visiting. One could say "Italian citizens should not fulfill this request, but visitors of Italy may do so"

   It is alright if IT does not allow fair use; many Wikipedias do not allow fair use either. This request is for the Wikipedias that do allow fair use. WhisperToMe (talk) 20:25, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

   To take a photography of a build the photographer should be in Italy, his nationality is irrelevant, he would still be liable for the publication of a picture he has not the right to publish. Stealing is illegal in US, I assume, even for foreign tourists, isn't it?

   I talked about it.wikipedia to stress that even if its servers must follow US law, it was forbidden to upload fair-use images just because it is illegal to publish them in the country where th majority of it.wiki contributors live. If I publish abroad something someone else has the rights, the IP owner can sue me in Italy, as part of the crime took place here. --TcfkaPanairjdde (talk) 21:57, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

   IT and other Wikipedias are free to not accept fair use if they wish.

   My request is only open for Wikipedias which accept fair use.

   If there is an extremely low chance that a non-Italian would face prosecution for uploading a proper fair use image of a modern Italian building under US law, then there shouldn't be a problem

   By "IP owner" are you referring to the architect of the building that would be the subject? Or is it the internet service provider? Why would the ISP have a problem? WhisperToMe (talk) 02:56, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

(a) It is illegal to publish photos of modern buildings taken in Italy. Even if the probability of persecution were zero, it would be still a crime. The IP owner, that is the architect of the building, has the right to claim compensation.

(b) On Commons such files are not allowed and have already been deleted, why should you ask on Commons for a file Commons can't publish? --TcfkaPanairjdde (talk) 23:54, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

A status as a crime doesn't matter so much as chances of prosecution and/or receiving a substantial punishment. Jaywalking is a crime in many U.S. jurisdictions yet many people still jaywalk.

I have been well aware of Commons not allowing French building copyright photos for quite some time, so I figured that it wouldn't allow Italian building copyright photos. The photo request list here is actually a request for images for all Wikipedias, not just the Commons. There is the headline Commons:Picture_requests#Picture requests on Wikipedias - The photo request lists are not just for the Commons, but also for all Wikipedias. WhisperToMe (talk) 06:03, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

It might not concern you, the user of the photo, but it might concern the photographer that he is committing a crime. --TcfkaPanairjdde (talk) 15:12, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

It ought to only concern the photographer if there is a real chance of legal action. Otherwise, it's like jaywalking. WhisperToMe (talk) 00:43, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Some people are interested in respecting the law even if there are no chances to be persecuted. At least we sould warn them. However, at least in Italy there are some public entities that actively persecute copyright infringments (see the case of the Uffizi in Florence). --TcfkaPanairjdde (talk) 14:03, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

I photographed the building myself. It may be uploaded on the Commons because the building has no artistic design. Only buildings with artistic and/or non-utilitarian designs are covered by fair use laws. The building is in the center of this image: File:AlitaliaHQFiumicinoItaly.JPG WhisperToMe (talk) 17:23, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

"Only buildings with artistic and/or non-utilitarian designs are covered by fair use laws." So what? According to Italian law, that photo is illegal, there is no such thing as "artistic and/or non-utilitarian designs" nor "fair use" clauses. --TcfkaPanairjdde (talk) 22:48, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

Moving wishes from Germany to de.wp

Since in de.wp there's now a template to request pictures right within the article it should be placed in, I would like to transfer the requests for Germany to de.wp. Any objections? --Flominator (talk) 17:10, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

Do you mean "transfering" as in deleting them here? -- Cecil (talk) 19:30, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

Yes, since I see no need to have to maintain them here as well. --Flominator (talk) 11:50, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

Awesome. Tourists not welcome to contribute. At least all the non-German speaking ones. Or do you really check the Wikipedia articles of languages you don't speak or are even able to read? If I would have known that you now plan to destroy all other opportunities for people to see picture requests I would have definitely voted against the template and tried to convince other people to do so too. -- Cecil (talk) 23:26, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

That's exactly why I asked. I didn't think about them. Thank you. Do you see any way, to keep both wishlists at least a little more updated? --Flominator (talk) 09:32, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

What about linking GermanWP wishlist maps like the one for Sweden? --Flominator (talk) 11:50, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

If anything, we should probably be transferring all local requests to Commons, so that 1) all requests from all projects are in one central location and 2) it encourages editors to upload to Commons so they can be used across all projects, rather being uploaded only to local projects. I hate to think how many images there are which I am looking for which are hidden on some local project, sitting there unused. I think Commons is the best place for any and all requests. russavia (talk) 13:38, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

What about language problems. Not everyone speaks English! --Flominator (talk) 13:14, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, what about language problems. Not everyone speaks German!--Stanzilla (talk) 11:33, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

Probably more people that are able to fulfill requests in Germany. --Flominator (talk) 15:53, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

Probably not the ones that have requests.--Stanzilla (talk) 16:51, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

Please take a look at the requests here for Germany, almost all of them, were issued by German Wikipedians. --Flominator (talk) 17:08, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

Ah? and requests from people of other countries are not wanted? I know one of the people that requested a photo from a German museum. He's from France and he doesn't speak German at all.--Stanzilla (talk) 18:02, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

Oh and here I'd also like to cite Cecil: "Awesome. Tourists not welcome to contribute. At least all the non-German speaking ones."--Stanzilla (talk) 18:50, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

I think there's a big misunderstanding here. I just thought that it would be a good idea to have a central place for German picture requests. Since more people are reading wp, I thought, that de.wp would be the right place. What's the difference between an automatically generated list of articles on de.wp and a list here that is maintained manually? I just thought, that a map of picture requests would be a great idea for users from Commons and de.wp. Of course we could also copy the requests from commons to de.wp, if that is the way preferred here. --Flominator (talk) 19:08, 20 November 2011 (UTC)