Commons:Requests for comment/Technical needs survey/Metadata editing tool

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Metadata editing tool

Description of the problem

• Problem description: sometimes, exif needs to be edited (for privacy for example).

  i personally cannot find a satisfactory tool to do so. i've tried a few tools. maybe because i'm a noob in this area, i get all sorts of problems like corrupt files.

  real example of the current hurdle to edit exif: https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Commons:Help_desk&oldid=838382550#Being_respectful_to_the_photographer . the user needed to edit and used some software which unbeknownst to him saved the output as a png disguised as a jpg, which got a cryptic error message when it's uploaded to overwrite the jpg.

  (off-topic: i understood the error he got only because i had that error before. there is no documentation. i had to write one myself: https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Commons:List_of_errors&oldid=838404183#This_file_did_not_pass_file_verification . the 4 year old https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T227405 ticket is not worked on. Fairy Fire Service.)--RZuo (talk) 06:44, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

  clarification: it's not about removing exif entirely. it's about editing certain fields. for example, if i only want to remove coordinates but leave everything else intact; or if i want to change the "copyright", "author" fields... RZuo (talk) 11:00, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

• Proposal type: feature request

• Proposed solution: a tool that can:

1. edit exif
2. not cause corruption to files
3. be lossless editing if possible? if not, it should still minimise the change in quality and/or filesize.

it'd be great if such a tool can be developed and hosted like the croptool or rotatebot.

maybe something already exists on the internet.--RZuo (talk) 06:44, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

• Phabricator ticket:

• Further remarks:

Discussion

It would be nice if one could just tick a "remove exif data" checkbox. There are tools for that that allow you to do so for many images at once and a gadget could be possible too since most people don't need it and exif data could provide additional information. --Prototyperspective (talk) 13:53, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

A feature for removing location metadata could also be useful - some people are sensitive about revealing their locations.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ _{please ping or talk to me}🇺🇦 14:00, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

I think that would be better than editing exif data as the latter would only result in more hard-to-detect faulty metadata (e.g. mainly create new problems rather than solve any tangible ones). Just giving the people the ability to remove exif data (all or location data) would probably be better. Prototyperspective (talk) 14:04, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

Unless I am missing something, exif data could be easily removed by using image editing software, on the user's computer or smartphone. If the image has already been uploaded to Commons, it could be overwritten with the version without exif data, and then asking for the previous version to be deleted. I think that general image editing features are out of Commons scope. MGeog2022 (talk) 14:36, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

If it really isn't easily possible, I think this should be proposed to developers of some image editing free software, such as GIMP, since it would be very useful to many people outside Commons. MGeog2022 (talk) 14:41, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

When you export a file with GIMP you can simply uncheck exif data. Please check in advance, for example by doing a Web search if you don't have that software. It's also possible to remove exif data of all files in a directory. Removing the exif data at upload would make it a) more convenient especially if you only use this rarely and would like to use this for only some but many images b) more accessible to users. I already argued that it's not an important issue unlike several other proposals and would only be useful to have at some point. Prototyperspective (talk) 15:49, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

@Prototyperspective, OK, it seemed a bit odd to me to have something similar to image editing features here, but I won't oppose any purposal that is useful (reading the comments above, I thought almost no software could easily remove exif data without creating problems, that's why I said to ask for this feature to be included in software such as GIMP). MGeog2022 (talk) 20:25, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

•  Comment I think there is a broader question here: how much do we want to provide by way of file-editing tools for files that have already been uploaded? So far, the I believe the only ones we have are crop & rotate. (Am I missing something?) I'm not sure if editing EXIFs is the very next priority (some sort of contrast manipulation might be a higher priority). Plus, it isn't clear to me that this particular need arises all that often. It isn't all that hard to download-fix-reupload. - Jmabel ! talk 19:50, 4 January 2024 (UTC)
•  Comment Also: if this is specific to EXIF, let's say "EXIF" not "Metadata". "Metadata" can mean a lot of things, including SDC and everything in the wikitext of a file page. - Jmabel ! talk 19:54, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

  Well.... Let's say embedded metadata. Because the metadata box at the end of the page can be EXIF, XMP, IPTC, file native and probably at least one other metadata format that I forgot about. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 10:06, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

•  Info I think it would be very useful to look into the metadata of files that were uploaded, but not published. So you can check before uploading in a simple way --PantheraLeo1359531 😺 (talk) 09:48, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
•  Comment Maybe a good example of an Exif Data in need of an edit. In this file the Exif data seems to me at least repetitive and bloated.Paradise Chronicle (talk) 08:06, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Votes

•  Support.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ _{please ping or talk to me}🇺🇦 13:09, 4 January 2024 (UTC)
•  Oppose Not one of the most critical features, just a very useful one. Prototyperspective (talk) 13:53, 4 January 2024 (UTC)
•  Support know of a case where this is also needed. Another solution would be to delete the file and upload a new one with the same image but with the correct exif data.Paradise Chronicle (talk) 17:15, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

  @Paradise Chronicle: "delete the file and upload a new one with the same image but with the correct exif data" requires intervention by an Admin.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ _{please ping or talk to me}🇺🇦 17:19, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

  You are correct, ideal would be an edit tool for exif data so we wouldn't have to bother admins for something like this. Paradise Chronicle (talk) 21:53, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

•  Support.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ _{please ping or talk to me}🇺🇦 13:09, 4 January 2024 (UTC) Struckout as a duplicate.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 13:30, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

  @Jeff G. I don't know how this happened but you voted twice in the same minute the same day. Your votes are Number 1 and 4. :) Paradise Chronicle (talk) 07:52, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

  https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Commons:Requests_for_comment/Technical_needs_survey/Metadata_editing_tool&diff=prev&oldid=844025874 RZuo (talk) 08:24, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

  @Paradise Chronicle and @RZuo: Right, @Packa duplicated my one vote in that edit RZuo mentioned. I never mean to vote twice.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 13:29, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

  @Jeff G. I didn't believe you voted twice on purpose and would defend you against any such accusation. I just pointed it out as I thought its interesting that this can happen. To end the discussion I'll strike the second vote, if no-one beats me in it. Paradise Chronicle (talk) 13:50, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

•  Support A useful feature. --Packa (talk) 00:59, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
•  Neutral Not sure on this. This file would be a good servant but a bad master. Unchanged Exif data are very helpful in the imagevio assessment. Some parts of Exif shouldn't be changed (date, aperture, exposure, ISO speed...) at all, these should be eventually removed. The tool should be available only to experienced users / only to edit your own files. The log of changes should be recorded in the file history. — Draceane ^talk_contrib. 08:17, 23 January 2024 (UTC)
• yes.--RZuo (talk) 11:56, 23 January 2024 (UTC)
•  Oppose - in my opinion, other needs are more urgent, and personally. i've never required this feature in the past. --Fl.schmitt (talk) 06:41, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
•  Oppose Sounds like re‑inventing the wheel. Even if you just provide a web‑interface to some pre‑existing third‑party meta‑data editing program, it’d mean maintaining this web‑interface. ‑‑ Kays (T | C) 13:37, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
•  Strong support It is something I think is important, without needing to reupload and revdel. As someone concerned about my privacy, having options at upload time and time after that is good. This will be my only strong support for the technical needs survey. SWinxy (talk) 03:01, 6 February 2024 (UTC)
•  Support --Botanist in Berlin (talk) 20:01, 6 February 2024 (UTC)
•  Oppose for now, there are a lot potential issues with changing the EXIF data recorded by the camera. One of our key requirements is having proof of authority to release providing this tool could make exif data changes too easy to allow bad faith actions. Gnangarra 09:45, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

  @Gnangarra: What minimum group membership would minimize that risk to an acceptable level, autopatrolled?   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ _{please ping or talk to me}🇺🇦 21:31, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

  Its not a "group membership" issue, its about protecting the copyright holder rights and giving assurity of licensing. No one on Commons should be changing "exif" "metadata" settings. Gnangarra 04:22, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

  @Gnangarra: As an Admin, if a good-faith user wants to delete their not-in-use own work for privacy reasons related to EXIF data and then reupload, would you honor a speedy {{SD|G6}} request per COM:CSD#G6 or a freeform request on COM:AN? If so, how is this request different except for the involvement of you?   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ _{please ping or talk to me}🇺🇦 16:33, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

  there is a differnce between the copyright holder asking in goodfaith, and say for example some random person/bot editing exif on a file. Gnangarra 07:01, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

  @Gnangarra: My question concerned own work.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ _{please ping or talk to me}🇺🇦 07:20, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

  own work isnt the issue, its the ability to change the exif information on other peoples contributions that concerns me about this idea, I think more needs to be done around making it safe before considering it. Gnangarra 07:50, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

  com:overwrite is now limited to com:autopatrollers. RZuo (talk) 08:32, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

  dont think being registered for 3 days and making 10 edits is enough to ensure a person can be trusted with such actions Gnangarra 05:49, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

  that's Commons:Autoconfirmed users. RZuo (talk) 07:46, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

  yep an extremely low bar, probably too low IMHO. Gnangarra 08:29, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

  com:overwrite is limited to com:autopatrollers, not Commons:Autoconfirmed users. RZuo (talk) 09:02, 25 April 2024 (UTC)