Category talk:Railway signalling wires

Category:Railway signalling wires

see also existing discussion on Category talk:Railway signalling wires

	Category:Railway signalling wires	Move to/Rename as	Category:Railway signal wires
	per move request by Andy Dingley (talk · contribs): "Revert undiscussed and inappropriate bulk rename of this and the children. It was better before."

@Andy Dingley and Radiojunkie: : It would be great if there were some references to point to on what industry naming standards are for this sort of thing. Josh (talk) 06:39, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

 Question are these wires intended to include electrical wires for signal transmission, physical control cables, or both? Josh (talk) 06:50, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

Good question. I would say definitely not (the mechanical wires to control signals are a justified category of their own), and that's why we should avoid a name that potentially confuses those others into this. Andy Dingley (talk) 10:58, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

@Joshbaumgartner, Andy Dingley, and Radiojunkie: So far, according to the images included, I have the impression that there were no bigger problems with understanding the purpose and definition of the category, and the category is only used for physical-control pull cables, as it was meant. However, it is true that the English name is inaccurate and misleading. The only linked article is cs:Drátovod, whose name is utterly unambiguous (= "a device that conducts wires", "conduit of wires") and this Czech name covers both the signaling and the control function (in German: Drahtzugleitung). Unfortunately, I can no longer remember where I got the chosen English name 12 years ago (probably from some related texts in English Wikipedia). I agree that colleagues who know the technical English should look for a more appropriate and documentable technical term in English, if there exists one for this matter. Google translator offers "wire pull line", but Google images diplay quite different things under this name. Unfortunately, we have very few images from Anglophone countries that are named by expert native speakers. The article en:Railway semaphore signal#Operation uses no special terms for those control wires, or uses unspecific words "signal wires". The article en:Boom barrier is very short and doesn't mention the distant mechanical control, as well as en:Railroad switch doesn't mention that. --ŠJů (talk) 12:02, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

Renaming

The idea behind the name was that this category does include also wires to points, derailers, level crossings, ... and not only signals. Thus for me "signalling" makes more sense than "signal". The German name "Drahtzugleitung" does not include "Signal" either. Radiojunkie (talk) 06:15, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

But those are no more "signalling" than they are "signals". Are you now including telephone and telegraphy wires here?

The point is not to try and give a definition in the name of the category. This is a group that already has a definition from its own industry, and our task is to use something close to a recognisable COMMONNAME from that, not to try and invent a compound noun that defines a new group (although that is something very commonly done on Commons).

The name, taking COMMONNAME as a starting point, would be "signal wires", not "signalling wires". As it was. Andy Dingley (talk) 10:38, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

No, signalling does not include telephone and telegraphy, it is the COMMONNAME for everything related to (railway) signals, points, track detection, etc. This is why quite often the name S&T, i.e. Signalling and Telecoms is used for integrated packages in e.g. railway tenders. By the way, there can be signalling without physical signals, either in modern train controls systems like ETCS L2 or on secondary lines without main signals. Radiojunkie (talk) 08:32, 26 June 2023 (UTC)

CfD has been started on this matter at Commons:Categories for discussion/2023/06/Category:Railway signalling wires. Josh (talk) 06:46, 28 June 2023 (UTC)