Category talk:Infographics about the COVID-19 pandemic

Merge/move of the category tree

@Timeshifter and JuTa: Hi. Where is any discussion about the relation between the terms "Diagrams" and "Infographics" and move/merge of the category tree of Diagrams about the COVID-19 pandemic? I checked some deletion logs and they contain no link to any discussion. In some cases, the old category even seems to be deleted and the new one paralelly created instead of standard move of the original category to the new name and instead of leaving a standard soft redirect from the original name by default.

Do you plan to complete the move up to the country/province/state level?

Do you plan to revise and reorganize the upper and top categories Category:Diagrams and Category:Infographics and their category branches as well? I can find no CfD template about any opened discussion on these top categories. What is your intention - to completely abolish the categorization tree of Diagrams? Do you have any idea about the definition and interrelationship of the two terms? Thank You. --ŠJů (talk) 00:28, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

IMHO the term "infographic" covers also various pictograms, signs, instructing and educative cartoons etc., while diagrams are a very specific type of infographics which should have their own category tree kept. Shouldn't we take that hasty delete back and re-sort the content at all levels? --ŠJů (talk) 00:35, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

English definition of diagram has traditionally been more restrictive than the definition in some other languages. Though some people are trying to expand that definition in English. And they may eventually succeed. But right now it seems that the traditional definition is the main definition. See the Merriam-Webster dictionary definition:

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/diagram

See also: Infographic definition:

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/infographic

As you can see infographic is the broader term. Maps are not normally considered to be diagrams in English. On the other hand maps are considered to be infographics. More info on infographics:

https://blog.adioma.com/what-is-an-infographic

Also, data tables are not normally considered to be diagrams. But they are infographics.

I may or may not not get around to changing more of the COVID-19 subfolder names from diagrams to infographics. I was mainly trying to get the first level changed to infographics. That is complete.

The admins make the decision about soft redirects, not me. --Timeshifter (talk) 08:17, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

@Timeshifter: I am a bit confused by your statement, because you basically agree with my objections, but at the same time you insist on the wrong step, which I objected to. Yes, an infographic is a broader term than a diagram. Then I don't understand what was the reason was for deleting the categories of diagrams. --ŠJů (talk) 07:15, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

@ŠJů: I note this on your user page: "This user is able to contribute with an intermediate level of English." I don't think you understood what I wrote. I did not agree with your objections.

This has been discussed before. See:

Category talk:Information graphics

Category talk:Diagrams

Infographics includes maps and charts. Diagrams does not. Please stop putting non-diagrams back in diagrams. --Timeshifter (talk) 09:15, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

@Timeshifter: As you can see, I restore the groundlessly destroyed categorization tree of diagrams, and keep the category tree of other infographics. And I'm trying to restore the broken consistency of the categorization system. I am afraid that the cause of the misunderstanding here is not linguistic. --ŠJů (talk) 09:20, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

@ŠJů: You obviously do not understand what I wrote in English because you are putting non-diagrams in diagram categories. This has all been discussed before. See:

Category talk:Information graphics

Category talk:Diagrams

--Timeshifter (talk) 09:24, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

@Timeshifter: I am afraid that the cause of the misunderstanding here is not linguistic. If someone massively did inconsistent categorization (and excluded thousands of diagrams from the categorization tree of diagrams) and did non-standard procedures here, it was primarily you. But if you find any example where someone put a non-diagram in any diagram category, of course it needs to be fixed. I'm just not sure now if it's appropriate for you to get involved. In those linked discussions, I don't see anything related to our dispute - it looks more like some spam. --ŠJů (talk) 09:35, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

@ŠJů: So now you are resorting to insults like calling my posts "spam"? I have 25,000 edits on the Commons. 61,000 edits on all Wikimedia projects. I have another 100,000 edits on Wikia and Shoutwiki. I notice you have a lot of uploads on the Commons. So we should have a respectful discussion.

You still haven't addressed my points. Why are you reverting my edits, and putting thousands of maps, charts, tables, and graphs into diagram categories. None of those files are diagrams. --Timeshifter (talk) 09:44, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

@Timeshifter: I suppose, Cartesian graphs of functions and statistics, including bar charts and column charts, fall under the term of "diagrams" par excellence, as they are defined by texts your linked. I didn't even notice you questioned that. Some schemes based on cartoons can be more borderline cases, but these were only marginally affected. I understand that in some cases - for example Diagrams of road signs- the word "diagram" is already used in a very widespread and shifted meaning (I wouldn't call such a representation of a road sign a diagram either), but this may not apply to our categories regarding covid. And since those categories have existed here by consensus for many years, you shouldn't make any massive changes yourself. --ŠJů (talk) 09:59, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

@ŠJů: COVID-19 has only been around less than a year. And many of the categories are only a few months, or even weeks, old. You do not understand English very well. Because the dictionary definitions I provided do not say that charts and graphs are diagrams. Charts, graphs, and maps are infographics, not diagrams. Ask some other native English speakers to read those dictionary definitions I linked to. And then have them explain the meaning to you. --Timeshifter (talk) 10:06, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

unindent. @ŠJů: I asked at Commons:Administrators' noticeboard for some native English speakers who are admins to join this discussion. --Timeshifter (talk) 10:10, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

@Timeshifter: The linked definitions clearly say that diagrams are a type of infographic (i.e. every diagram is an infographic) and that a diagram is (among others) "a line drawing made for mathematical or scientific purposes". So far, you have not sufficiently explained your thought processes and your peculiar interpretation of those definitions. And instead, without any discussion and consensus, you have embarked on massive relocations - which you have also made in a very non-standard way, as if you did not even know how to rename/move pages. I am afraid that you are not in dispute with me here anyway and we are not limited by my knowledge of English, but above all you are at odds with the long-standing general consensus on the meaning and use of terms (and category names) – see eg. en:Diagram#Gallery of diagram types. Mixing diagrams together with completely different infographics - maps, drawings, logos, etc., was a very bad idea from you.--ŠJů (talk) 10:20, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

Unindent. Rather than repeat everything here, please see the discussion here:

• Commons:Categories for discussion/2019/09/Category:Diagrams by subject

--Timeshifter (talk) 23:05, 4 August 2020 (UTC)