Category talk:Birgitta of Hohenzollern

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Category:Birgitta of Hohenzollern[edit]

Name change of Category as no such Person as ‘Birgitta of Hohenzollern’ existing, though the individual here named as so is and should be renamed as ‘Princess Birgitta of Sweden’, a Swedish Princess who is only married to a Prince of the Noble Princely House of HohenzollernImperialArchivesRU (talk) 22:37, 13 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose Her legal married German name i Birgitta Prinzessin von Hohenzollern. Sweden (Schweden) is not mentioned. "von Hohenzollern" translates as of Hohenzollern. That's sufficient in this context. Unnecessary moves are not appropriate. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 12:53, 14 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

This category was improperly moved to Category:Princess Birgitta of Sweden by Rereader1996 (talk · contribs) without proper conclusion of this CfD. Since SergeWoodzing (talk · contribs) has offered objection and it has not been answered, I do not believe we can close this in favor of a move yet. I have reversed the move pending completion of this CfD. Josh (talk) 22:27, 9 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Joshbaumgartner: , @SergeWoodzing: Princess Birgitta’s official name and title as well as the title of which she is always referred to by the Swedish Royal court and news outlets (the majority which base their articles on factual information) is: ‘Princess Birgitta of Sweden’ as at no point in her entire life has she ever been, ‘Birgitta von Hohenzollern’, ‘Prinzessin Birgitta av Hohenzollern’, ‘Birgitta av Hohenzollern’, ‘Prinsessan Birgitta av Hohenzollern’, ‘Birgitta of Hohenzollern’ or even ‘Princess Birgitta of Hohenzollern’; furthermore, her English Wikipedia page (which is always the go-to, for the majority of readers) is named en:Princess Birgitta of Sweden in addition to the German one, de:Birgitta Ingeborg Alice von Schweden.

The category category:Birgitta of Hohenzollern was most probably made due to the lack of factual information and assumption that due to her marriage to a Hohenzollern Prince, that she immediately becomes known as ‘Birgitta of Hohenzollern’ which isn’t the case in the slightest.

  • The Royal Website of the Swedish Royal Family refers to her as: Princess Birgitta
  • The Top leading Royal news outlet refer to her as ‘Princess Birgitta of Sweden’ Royal Central

Therefore I suggest for the category to be correctly reverted to ‘Princess Birgitta of Sweden’ to comply with accurate and factual information rather than misleading based on ones own opinions of how she should be legally titled when the evidence outweighs the opinions.Rereader1996 (talk) 22:48, 9 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

What is her legal married name? Does anybody care? Like a genealogy site, Wikipedia always uses the maiden names of royal women, regardlesss of what their actual legal married names are. "Royal Central" has no official standing & is not a reliable source as evidenced by errors (bs) about the Swedish constitution in that very article. The Swedish royal court has never used "of Sweden" about Birgitta since she got married. In Germany, where Birgitta has lived for many years and where she gave birth to all her German-born children, policy since the abolishion of the Germany monarchies in 1918 has been to add the formerly valid titles legally to the surnames of the ex-royalty. Thus her name would be Birgitta Prinzessin von Hohenzollern as married. Alleging that she has never been known as "of Hohenzollern" or the like ignores her marriage and is just not accurate. Without seeing her passort, no Wikipedian call tell what's right or wrong. Nevertheless, this could easily have been solved by a redirect rather than a move. Much tadoo about nothing. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 23:06, 9 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@SergeWoodzing: Depending on the country and it’s laws of registration, Imperials Royals and those members of ruling families don’t have married names as their name-title is what they’re registered under; Birgitta may have resided in Germany in addition to currently residing in Spain, however that does not mean her title changes even due to marriage; her current and only title of which she is known as and is officially referred to is ‘Princess Birgitta of Sweden’, not ‘Birgitta von Hohenzollern’ or ‘Birgitta Prinzessin von Hohenzollern’, the Former also taking precedence over the two latter examples; if say she was ever known as ‘Princess Birgitta of Hohenzollern’, ‘Birgitta von Hohenzollern’ or even ‘Birgitta Prinzessin von Hohenzollern’, the Swedish Royal Court has never referred to her as such as they only refer to her as ‘Princess Birgitta’ as they do with all Princes and Princesses in the family as you will see in this link [1], her elder sister has been referred to with her official and legal title and style ‘Princess Margaretha, Mrs Ambler‘ and their cousin has been referred to as just ‘Princess Benedikte’ though she is also officially ‘Princess Benedikte of Denmark’, infact even her nephew and niece as ‘Princess Madeleine’ and ‘Prince Carl Philip’ which itself proves that if Birgitta’s official and legal name was ‘Birgitta von Hohenzollern’ or ‘Birgitta Prinzessin von Hohenzollenrn’ (like her husband has as you will see in the same link listed as ‘H.H. Dr Johann Georg, Prince von Hohenzollern‘) then she would literally be listed as such! @Joshbaumgartner: . Rereader1996 (talk) 23:34, 9 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Why discuss this any further? Just to try to prove that one is wrong and the other right? It could easily be solved by a redirect rather than a move. Unnecessary category moves, just to satisfy one user's personal opinions or another's about format, are never appropriate. Birgitta married a titular prince of Hohenzollern and then became a titular princess of Hohenzollern. She is often called that & it is not incorrect to refer to her as such. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 00:00, 10 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@SergeWoodzing: Because there is literally no such person as ‘Birgitta of Hohenzollern’ or ‘Birgitta von Hohenzollern’ or ‘Birgitta Prinzessin von Hohenzollern’ to exists. Technically Prince Johannes was never and has never been a titular Prince, he by descent and legitimacy has been a Prince as are his children however due to the implicated naming laws in Germany forced German Royals and aristocrats to have a family name however Birgitta being married to a Hohenzollern Prince doesn’t necessarily mean she is a Hohenzollern Princess as Princesses don’t just assume the titles of their husband unless changes have been made. @Joshbaumgartner: . Rereader1996 (talk) 10:30, 10 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
We may be having a language problem, and/or what I've written here may have been mostly ignored, including the link to one of Sweden's major magazines which writes about "Prinsessan Birgitta av Hohenzollern". In any case some of the terminology makes no sense to me at all, and some of the statements are definitely conjecture. Seems like there is a wish to deny that a woman gets her husband's title when they are married. I've never heard of such a bizarre idea. There is a difference between Wikipedia's maiden-name-only policy for royal women and what actually goes on the real world. And Wikimedia Commons is not Wikipedia anyway. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 00:11, 11 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Proposal Leave this alone and let a redirect cover her maiden name & status. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 00:11, 11 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@SergeWoodzing: As has been stated a few times, there is literally no such person as ‘Birgitta of Hohenzollern’ or ‘Birgitta von Hohenzollern’ or ‘Birgitta Prinzessin von Hohenzollern’ to exist and nor is Princess Birgitta referred to or known as such and very rarely is she ever called as such by media, if it is that much of an issue then first of all I would suggest to change the names of the Wikipedia Pages en:Princess Birgitta of Sweden, es:Brígida de Suecia (1937), fr:Birgitte de Suède, it:Brigitta di Svezia, nl:Birgitta van Zweden (1937), ro:Prințesa Birgitta a Suediei, pt:Brígida da Suécia, sl:Brigita Švedska (1937), no:Birgitta av Sverige and cs:Birgitta Švédská to this apparent ‘Birgitta of Hohenzollern’ or ‘Birgitta von Hohenzollern’ or ‘Birgitta Prinzessin von Hohenzollern’ or whatever new name title she apparently and assumingly has because of being married to a Hohenzollern Prince. Rereader1996 (talk) 12:21, 11 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
We must rely more on Svensk Damtidning in this matter than on the personal opinions of any Wikipedian. Ignoring the link I provided to that magazine, as an example of where she is called "Princess Birgitta of Hohenzollern", is not helpful. Nor is repeating the same conjecture over and over. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 23:24, 11 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@SergeWoodzing: since when has Svensk Damtidning taken precedence of the Swedish Royal Court in facts? As I had literally posted a link above from the royal website explaining the difference in how Princess Birgitta and her husband were presented:“H.R.H. Princess Birgitta and H.H. Dr Johann Georg, Prince von Hohenzollern” [2] whereas if she was realistically ever ‘Birgitta von Hohenzollern’, ‘Prinzessin Birgitta av Hohenzollern’, ‘Birgitta av Hohenzollern’, ‘Prinsessan Birgitta av Hohenzollern’, ‘Birgitta of Hohenzollern’ or even ‘Princess Birgitta of Hohenzollern’ then the Royal website would literally write it as such, as they did with her husband whose Princely title wasn’t even mentioned before his name but was written as a surname (German law of naming conventions). Rereader1996 (talk) 17:00, 12 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
She is still a princess of Sweden, and (and) she is a titular princess of Honenzollern. The magazine knows that. So does the royal court. What the royal court chooses to call her is not decisive. If she is known as both, which she is, this move is not needed. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 20:55, 12 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@SergeWoodzing: As has already been explained before, if she were truly ‘Birgitta of Hohenzollern’ then the royal website [3] would have referred to her as such (H.R.H Birgitta, Princess von Hohenzollern) as they did with her husband (“H.H. Dr Johann Georg, Prince von Hohenzollern”) whereas she was stated: “H.R.H. Princess Birgitta“, just as her nephew and niece were: “H.R.H. Princess Madeleine/H.R.H. Prince Carl Philip” in addition to her sisters being referred with their full title: “Princess Margaretha, Mrs Ambler/Princess Désirée, Baroness Silfverschiöld/Princess Christina, Mrs Magnuson“ which in itself proves that she is officially not even referred to and known with ‘Hohenzollern’ in her title. Rereader1996 (talk) 01:00, 15 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Considering the fact that if she were to be titled as a Hohenzollern then she would literally be officially referred to as any of the examples: ‘Birgitta of Hohenzollern’, ‘Princess Birgitta of Hohenzollern’, ‘Birgitta, Princess von Hohenzollern’ etc... (like her husband has: “H.H. Dr Johann Georg, Prince von Hohenzollern”) just as her sisters have been referred to with their official titles: “Princess Margaretha, Mrs Ambler/Princess Désirée, Baroness Silfverschiöld/Princess Christina, Mrs Magnuson“ whereas Princess Birgitta of Sweden has been referred to in the same style as a Princess of Sweden just as her niece and nephew have “H.R.H. Princess Madeleine/H.R.H. Prince Carl Philip”.[1] Rereader1996 (talk) 01:09, 15 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
None of that is relevant to the fact that she is known by both names, her maiden name and her married name, as clearly has been shown. Thus the move is not necessary. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 09:57, 14 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@SergeWoodzing: In what sense is it not relevant? As I have previously stated, if the Royal website itself states her as ‘HRH Princess Birgitta’ like they do with the other Swedish Princes and Princesses rather than referring to her as ‘HRH Birgitta Princess von Hohenzollern’ or ‘Birgitta von Hohenzollern’ or whatever you believe she is titled as, that in itself presents the argument of her being officially known as ‘Princess Birgitta of Sweden’, as I have mentioned earlier in another page name change discussion, I understand that you want to take control of Swedish Royal Category Pages, however incorrect names/titles are pretty pointless and confusing. Thus I put forward the reiteration to Princess Birgitta of Sweden. Rereader1996 (talk) 02:30, 16 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I see no constructive reason to respond input by any user who makes intentionally rude fantasy accusations like " I understand that you want to take control of Swedish Royal Category Pages". --SergeWoodzing (talk) 16:49, 16 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@SergeWoodzing: ‘intentionally rude fantasy’ according to yourself however evidently we can see this in other edits and CFD’s; as it is, I still stand by my statement on the basis of your not following factual information, rather, basing your edits and reverts on your assumptions. Rereader1996 (talk) 14:08, 19 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

 Strong oppose The official name used by the Swedish royal house and the press generally is "Princess Birgitta of Sweden." And more...

The only version of Wikipedia that uses "Hohenzollern" in the article title is nn:Birgitta av Sverige og Hohenzollern, anyway, Sweden is in the title and comes before Hohenzollern. There is no reason to justify this change. Minerva97 (talk) 18:09, 20 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  1. ↑ https://www.kungahuset.se/royalcourt/media/pressreleases/olderpressreleases/pressreleasesearlier/theentryoftheguestsofhonourintothecathedral.5.40e05eec12926f2630480003473.html
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