User talk:Routemastermatt

Welcome to Wikimedia Commons, Routemastermatt!

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-- Wikimedia Commons Welcome (talk) 15:16, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

Please verify that you are the rights holder for the images File:RMF2771.jpg and File:RMF2771.png

Thanks for uploading these two images of Routemaster bus 2101, it's nice to see it's about to embark on an interesting adventure. In order for them to remain on Wikimedia Commons however, you will need to provide proof that you took these photos yourself (or otherwise have permission to release them under the given license). This is primarily because this user account has no proven record of uploads here. If you do not do this, it cannot be guaranteed that they will remain here - especially since the png version has clearly been copied from the project website http://www.japanorbust.org.uk/. For full details of what this message means and what you need to do next, see Commons:Permission. Regards, Ultra7 (talk) 18:38, 31 December 2014 (UTC) [br]

I own the photos the website and bus, feel free to drop me a email on matt@japanorbust.org.uk or info@japanorbust.org.uk the one was my first ever test uploaded and happened to be a photo on my desktop! As I am new to Wikipedia I'm still working out what to do, I am not sure how I should prove I own them other then declaring I own them as I have on a share alike license!

Routemastermatt (talk) 09:56, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

Hello again. I just wrote a long message with lots of advice about permissions and a whole host of other tips, but I've collapsed it into the green box below because, on reflection, I am no longer confident that what I've been advising you is correct, on the issue of permissions at least. On that basis, feel free to accept or discard its contents as you see fit (click the arrow on the right of the green box to unhide it.)

What I can tell you with certainty is that, under our Commons:Permission policy, because the png version was obviously copied from the website, it will eventually be deleted unless you email us stating you own the website (and took the image). However, since this was obviously a test image and is unlikely to be of use since it's quite small, if it's OK with you I can arrange to have it deleted, and if you want you can-reupload the original photo (as taken by the camera) in the same way you did for the jpg.

What I am no longer sure of (because it seems I was relying far too much on my memory of what it says rather than re-checking what it actually says), is whether or not it is officially policy to require proof when someone uploads an image like the jpg one as a first time contribution, and all they do is say 'this is my own work, and I release it under this license'. The relevant text of COM:Permission in this case is that you would need to email us only if the image: "looks too professional to have been created by an amateur photographer (which most Commons users are). New users who have uploaded high quality images will usually be targeted more under this rationale than established users (who have been trusted in their contributions of self-made images)." Therefore, whether or not you need to actually email us to prove you took the jpg photo appears to rest on whether or not people might think it looks too good to have been taken by an amateur. Accordingly, I am happy to leave it up to you to decide what to do - all I can say is that the only 100% certain way to ensure it never gets challenged (assuming you don't stick around and upload more images to establish a record of self-made contributions) is to email us explicitly saying that you took the photo. Ultra7 (talk) 16:59, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

my original advice

OK, no problems, if you're the owner then there's no issues for me, but there's still some things you need to do. I'm afraid there's nothing I can do via email to prove you're the rights holder, you will have to email us to prove that - for full instructions, see Commons:Permission. The reason we can't just take the license declaration as proof is because you don't yet have a proven track record of uploading photos here. While I don't personally think this outlook is a good idea, as it does end up confusing a lot of new users like yourself, it is unfortunately the official policy. You will find a lot of people here are very cynical, and prefer to assume the worst of intent in people (i.e. that everything they upload is not theirs to upload), and will only accept otherwise if given concrete proof, or there is a proven track record. This is especially the case when they notice, as is the case for the png version, an image which has clearly been copied from a website. Other than the permission issue though, you appear to have already mastered the basics, so don't get too worried or bewildered. For any future uploads which you yourself took, then simply do as you did in the case of the jpg version. There is one important thing you didn't do, but that's OK because it's medium level stuff - in order to organise photos here we use things called categories. If you're going to upload any more images of RMF2771 (and I hope you do), it's best to include the category "Northern 2101 (Routemaster bus)", which is the one we use here for any and all images of RMF2771 (as you might see, there are other categories too, but they don't really need explaining here at this stage). You can add the category after upload, by editing the image page, adding the line [[Category:Northern 2101 (Routemaster bus)]] at the bottom. If you click Category:Northern 2101 (Routemaster bus), you will see all the images of RMF2771 we have (that I know of anyway), including your images. Cases like the png version is a little more complicated - in those cases you would also need to detail that you are the owner of the website. It's almost not worth explaining this aspect further though, as if you're the owner of the site the you will presumably have access to all the original files, and could upload them all directly instead, as you did for the jpg version. If you're happy to, I can ask for the png version to be deleted as it was simply a test upload, and isn't likely to be of use here, given it's small size. If you want to get more involved in uploading images here, then here's a few other helpful tips which might come in useful: Please note that Wikipedia (the encyclopedia) and Wikimedia Commons (this site) are actually two different websites. We are both part of the Wikimedia Foundation, and it can sometimes seem confusing because one of the goals of Commons is to provide images for Wikipedia articles, and therefore integration is quite close, almost seamless. What's important though is you should always be aware of which site you are on, as you can't always assume our rules are the same (because our main purpose is different). It's also important in terms of communication - you can talk to people on either site on user talk pages (as we're doing here), but there is no automatic cross-communication (i.e. don't assume messages left here will be picked up by someone over there, and vice versa). In your case, if you try to add too many images to Wikipedia articles relating to japanorbust (or even write an article about it before it's become 'notable'), you might be accused of self-promotion. Over here however, while we wouldn't allow you to excessively promote your project, there's practically no limit to the amount of images we will accept here, as long as they have a potential educational use (and this is interpreted extremely broadly). Note that in legal terms, you are always the copyright holder of photos you personally took and then uploaded here, and this doesn't change just because the licenses we require them to be released on are quite liberal in how photos can be re-used. Someone in your situation should always be mindful however that in copyright law, you are not necessarily the copyright holder of images taken by other people for your website, and what declarations/releases/rights are in play then might be different depending on the precise circumnstances (I'm not a lawyer so I won't even pretend to know what the rights and wrongs are, but there are pages here which explain that - see Commons:Own work, particularly the bottom bit). Something else legal wise that you should probably bear in mind - under the license terms, photos on Commons can be used by anyone for any purpose, including commercial use (i.e. we're not here just to act as Wikipedia's photo album). I won't pretend know what implications that has for someone in your position, but it's something that might come into play if for example in future you might want to raise funds by selling photos that you've already uploaded here - you'd be asking money for something people can get here for free (although under the license terms they still have to identify you as the creator/copyright holder). Sometimes people don't fully appreciate this, and it can get very messy down the line when they try to withdraw their photos (which legally cannot be done since the license is irrevocable, but will sometimes be done out of simple courtesy). If you want to upload any more photos here (and again, please do!), then it's probably the right time to start thinking about better filenames. For Routemasters, I like to use the following standard - 'Routemaster FLEETNO (REG), DATE (x).jpg', so if I was going to upload your jpg version, I would have called it Routemaster RMF2771 (EYY 776B), 15 November 2014.jpg. If there are more than one on that day, then x=2, 3, etc. It's not hugely important thought, you can name your files whatever you want as long as it's not nonsense (DSC1902.jpg). Once you realise though, that we have thousands of images of Routemasters here (although sadly not a lot of Northern examples), then simply using the fleetnumber is not always the best. If you need any more help, feel free to ask a question at my talk page, as I'm pretty experienced (although the standard disclaimer applies - if in doubt, refer to the rules and not the advice of some random on the internet). In the cases of what to do with photos of Routemasters specifically, not to toot my own trumpet, I'm probably the best person to ask here out of anyone. Ultra7 (talk) 16:00, 1 January 2015 (UTC)