Template talk:Potd/2020-07-17 (ko)

{{Edit request}} I request that this page be created with the following content:

{{Potd description|1=네덜란드의 어느 정원에서 자란 [[:ko:미국풍나무|미국풍나무]](''[[:Category:Liquidambar styraciflua|Liquidambar styraciflua]]'')의 씨주머니.|2=ko|3=2020|4=07|5=17}}

Ellpicre (talk) 11:27, 17 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Ellpicre: I can create it, but why don’t you create it yourself? As far as I know, translated POTD descriptions can be edited by any autoconfirmed user. —Tacsipacsi (talk) 13:15, 17 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Tacsipacsi: If I am not mistaken, I can edit them if they already exist, but they can only be created by autopatrolled users. I thought about requesting autopatrol rights, but I'm unsure if I'd be eligible. Ellpicre (talk) 14:27, 17 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Ellpicre: Have you tried creating it? What I see in an error message while logged out is that only autoconfirmed can create it (this right is automatically assigned a few days after registration), not autopatrolled ones. —Tacsipacsi (talk) 14:36, 17 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I have. I get the following error message: "Notice: You do not have the permissions required to make this contribution. Please note that only autopatrolled users can create Picture of the day (POTD) and Movie of the day (MOTD) descriptions at this point in time. Please make an edit request on the page's talk page." Ellpicre (talk) 14:41, 17 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the exact error message, I see. It’s quite a bit complicated, with the various techniques for different access levels—title blacklist to prevent not autoconfirmed edits at all, abuse filter to disallow page creation by not autopatrolled users, cascading protection to allow English pages to be edited only by admins… —Tacsipacsi (talk) 15:02, 17 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for creating the page! If it isn't too much trouble, could you also create the following as well?

Autopatroller requirement seems like overkill... Ellpicre (talk) 15:50, 17 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Ellpicre: Done. These restrictions (apart from the English versions’ cascading protection) were applied by ~riley a few months ago, probably he can tell more about why they are necessary. —Tacsipacsi (talk) 18:44, 17 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Ellpicre and Tacsipacsi: This restriction is in place due to a security incident (failure in mediawiki's cascading protection feature) that brought down the main page. Until devs can figure out a security patch to ensure this doesn't happen again, we need to have a restriction in place and autoconfirmed is too achievable. That said, autopatroller is far from overkill given the circumstances. ~riley (talk) 20:17, 17 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@~riley: How could a Korean translation bring down the English main page? It should not be accessed from the English main page to begin with; if it is, on-wiki templates are programmed seriously wrong. And if an autoconfirmed user wants to bring down 대문, they can simply edit it, it’s only autoconfirmed-protected (unless a similarly cryptic protection is in place there). I understand that you want to protect the English captions, but locking all languages seems an overkill for me. —Tacsipacsi (talk) 00:04, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Tacsipacsi: A Korean translation would bring down the Korean main page. The security concern is not English specific; any downtime for a main page is a threat and restrictions are needed to mitigate that. That said, the Korean main page last had it's protection evaluated 13 years ago, probably because it was still a work in progress. I have raised it to the standard for stable main pages but also allowed TE should an edit request not be efficient enough (this allows us to grant TE temporarily to native users). ~riley (talk) 04:39, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@~riley: And how many times was it vandalised in the last 13 years? Zero. Protecting “just in case” is an overkill for a page viewed by some hundreds of people per day; for example, en:Bible received 150-200 thousands of pageviews a day, yet it’s freely editable by autoconfirmed users.

Autoconfirmed is a quite large barrier for one-off vandals, but achievable for good-faith editors. Both temporary template editor right and edit requests are very inefficient methods (one has to wait for the right/the edit request to be fulfilled), and temporary TE is also very dangerous as TEs can cause considerable harm even with edits quickly reverted just by putting load on the servers. Tacsipacsi (talk) 10:07, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

You are comparing an English Wikipedia mainspace article (a page meant to be edited) to a project main page; there is no comparison. One-off vandals aren't after the main page; the English main page was ironically brought down by an autonconfirmed user. The page has had 8 edits in 3 years; increasing protection will hardly impact efficiency. ~riley (talk) 20:03, 19 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@~riley: Would it be appropriate for me to ask for autopatroller rights here and now? Commons:Requests for rights says being an autopatroller would normally require 500+ edits on Commons, which I fall short of. This creates a serious bottleneck for Korean Wikipedia, whose Main Page transcludes Potd and its description from Commons. Not having enough users who are able to provide translation (without delay, at least) has resulted in most Potd's being displayed with their descriptions in just English or with no description at all. Ellpicre (talk) 04:03, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

That is quite the catch 22 situation, Ellpicre. This is not implication that was originally considered. I have added an exemption to the abuse filter to bypass the protection; try now? ~riley (talk) 04:39, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I can now create these pages. Thanks! Ellpicre (talk) 06:29, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Perfect! ~riley (talk) 20:03, 19 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@~riley: Sorry, what I said above is incorrect. Potd descriptions are not transcluded but copied from Commons to Korean Wikipedia by a bot each day. So, strictly speaking, I don't have to be able to create those pages on Commons, although it's a much cleaner way of doing things. Ellpicre (talk) 08:17, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, this is a much cleaner option for sure. Thanks for your work! ~riley (talk) 20:03, 19 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Template talk:Potd/2020-07-17 (ko)

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