Category talk:Townsend Avenue and Utting Avenue roundabout

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This discussion of one or several categories is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. Category:Townsend Avenue and Utting Avenue roundabout Other eyes requested on the location of this roundabout. I maintain it's in Clubmoor because that is where it is shown on Liverpool City Council's Ward maps here and here (it is the southerly of the two in roughly the centre of the maps). Another editor insists it's in Norris Green because "I grew up in Norris Green I know my area! If you want an "edit war" fine. I have no issue here as I am 100% correct." and has proceeded to edit-war her preferred, unsourced, version into the category. I believe we should use reliable sources rather than none, and these ward boundaries have the force of law, being set by the Boundary Commission for England and Wales. Rodhullandemu (talk) 21:10, 2 March 2019 (UTC) Having found the other user highly difficult and lacking respect, this is where we are. The user has chose to cite the location of the image based on Liverpool city council local ward maps. I agree it is an official source and I agree that the council political/administrative ward that covers the location is the Clubmoor ward. They are facts. The other facts that the contributor has chose to ignore and disrespected informed knowledgeable opinion as per the above quotes are that the location of the area in the image is not based on the council ward mapping. That the ward mapping is arbitrary and overlaps/covers part of the neighbouring district (Norris Green) for which this image discussion is central. The ward maps are there for a political and administrative division of Liverpool city council (authority). As discussed with the contributor the ward maps / names are not representative of the districts/neighbourhoods of Liverpool and gave supporting evidence to prove this. Example 1) Belle Vale ward covers Netherley but they are two separate districts. Example 2) Vauxhall area used to be in its own ward now that ward is defunct and it is now in the Kirkdale ward. This does not mean Vauxhall is part of Kirkdale or renamed Kirkdale. Example 3) Some wards are twin named such as Fairfield and Kensington, or Speke/Garston. With Rodhullandemu's reasoning then those city districts would be named as such but they are not. Example 4) Some wards are not named after the main area they cover such as Greenbank, or Central or Riverside. So Rodhullandemu's logic would mean places and images in those wards should be changed. But those are merely administrative wards they are not districts. I have also attempted to challenge the contributors knowledge of the area in question by providing links to some places and shops which concur that the image sits within the Norris Green district. Such as Norris Green Library. But this was dismissed out of hand and quite dismissive and disrespectfully so. The contributor ridicules comments from myself as "local gossip" and as above uses the hard line "I believe we should use reliable sources rather than none, and these ward boundaries have the force of law, being set by the Boundary Commission for England and Wales."/ When I state as above "I grew up in Norris Green", I know the area and would not be disputing this with Rodhullandemu if I had any qualms I was wrong. I am not wrong I am 100% correct that the Broadway area including the roundabouts are in Norris Green. The contributor appears to be adamant that above all, the one thing that overrides everything is the City Council Ward maps. (With this in mind the contributor's dismissive attitude to myself suggested take that up with Liverpool City Council). The point is that the council wards are NOT the districts of the city. They are arbitrary in that respect. As I pointed out they are prone to change just like Parliamentary constituencies do. In addition it was one of a number of images that were in the wrong location including Stanley Park Avenue bridge (was in Clubmoor) which is in Anfield without any question Babydoll9799 (talk) 15:21, 3 March 2019 (UTC) "I agree it is an official source and I agree that the council political/administrative ward that covers the location is the Clubmoor ward. They are facts" Thanks for destroying your own argument, and well done. Rodhullandemu (talk) 00:53, 4 March 2019 (UTC) If the matter is disputed...as in there are sources that support claims to be within one or the other's boundaries, especially if maybe those boundaries have changed at some point in time, then it is okay to have the category under both Clubmoor and Norris Green, as both may be legitimate paths a user may follow to reach it. An exlanatory note at the top of the category page would help folks understand further. Josh (talk) 23:55, 9 April 2019 (UTC) @Rodhullandemu and Babydoll9799: Closed (no consensus that one or the other category is the exclusively correct category, can simply be categorized in both to facilitate both navigational paths.) Josh (talk) 17:00, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

Roundabout location

Location dispute to an area of Liverpool, England.

Very disappointed to say that the contributor/owner to these images has persistently defended his/her position that the roundabouts are in Clubmoor based on the council ward maps. As a former resident of Norris Green I know this is not Clubmoor at all. However the council ward map (for Clubmoor) covers this area. The council wards are not places they are arbitrary. Just like Parliamentary constituencies they can change. The evidence is clear even on Wikipedia where there are defunct wards.

Example provided included the Belle Vale ward which covers Netherley. Other wards provide similar questions as there are wards that are not areas, such as Greenbank, County, and Church, and wards that are duel places like Fairfield & Kensington, Speke Garston. If the user want's to use the ward as fact then surely that would mean rewriting many places so that locations in Speke would be called Speke Garston for example. Many area boundaries are not easy to define but I think this is one that is very clear. The fact is the ward map that puts this under Clubmoor confuses the issue. To tell me to take the issue up with Liverpool City Council is one thing, but the user is misguided.

The contributor has taken both a very heavy handed attitude towards myself and also very disrespectful and hostile. The user has also refused to understand the locality for reasons unknown apart from citing the council ward as the "proof". The ward map may be official but as explained this does not mean the roundabouts are in Clubmoor. The map also covers Broadway as Clubmoor whilst this is basically Norris Green's district centre. I've provided other examples such as Norris Green Library but the user has dismissed anything I've advised and threatened to block me "for ever". How can a user behave like this? Babydoll9799 (talk) 09:59, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

As an RfC, this is defective because "at least two editors must have contacted the user on the user’s talk page" hasn't happened, neither has the RfC been created and transcluded, so nobody will see it. But when an assertion is disputed, we turn to reliable sources. This roundabout is one of the two seen together at a road junction on the this map and another map. The boundaries of the Clubmoor Ward of Liverpool City have been set by the Boundaries Commission for England and Wales and thus have legal effect. The complainant has provided no links, no documentary evidence and nothing beyond an opinion and local knowledge that this bridge is in Norris Green. Rather, she has preferred to edit-war her own unsourced version in the category. Sorry, but "I live there" and "everybody knows" do not trump a legal document. She would have been blocked for edit-warring by now but I consider myself involved, if only to the extent of preventing incorrect data being put here. Rodhullandemu (talk) 11:12, 28 February 2019 (UTC)