Category talk:Napier, New Zealand
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This discussion of one or several categories is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive.
Delete category as it is a duplicate of Category:Napier, New Zealand. Nurg (talk) 00:41, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
- That's an outright odd proposal. Do you understand how the categorisation system works? We have a parent Category:Districts of New Zealand for the territorial local authorities (TLAs), and a parent Category:Cities in New Zealand for the geographic areas, the latter being a sub-category of Populated places in New Zealand. The city / populated place is obviously something different to the TLAs, although for the cities (as opposed to the districts) they cover the same geographic area. If this is a problem for Napier and Napier City, why don't you put all city TLAs up for deletion? Surely, it's the same throughout. The same system of categorisation exists on Wikidata, and Wikipedia has articles that are separate for the TLAs and the cities. But for Napier, this is somehow a problem? Schwede66 02:12, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
- Hi Schwede66. I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "The city / populated place is obviously something different to the TLAs". I know there is a technical difference between defining a particular area by statute (or schedule, or executive order or however they do it) as a TLA area vs defining an urban area for statistical purposes or whatever. But in a case where the two types of areas coincide, it makes little difference when it comes to categorising files. The city of Napier is essentially the same as the TLA Napier City; or (wording it differently) the urban area of Napier is essentially the same as Napier City. Any minor difference is easily accommodated using just one category. We already have only one for Category:Lower Hutt (there's no Category:Hutt City) and Category:Wellington City (Category:Wellington is a redirect to it).
- I wouldn't make the same suggestion for TLA areas like Christchurch City or Dunedin City, because they both cover a much bigger area that includes other towns, e.g. Akaroa; Mosgiel.
- I'm also not sure what you mean by "Wikipedia has articles that are separate for the TLAs and the cities." If you meant TLA councils, it's true for a number of them, but this deletion proposal is not about a council. It is not true of the TLA areas I have checked. The TLA city names are just redirects or disambiguation pages: w:Napier City, w:Hamilton City, w:Tauranga City etc.
- I was initially just focused on Napier, but you prompted me to look at the others. Where the TLA area is more-or-less coterminous with the city / populated place / urban area, then yes I would nominate them to be deleted (but I will wait to see where this discussion goes). So w:Hamilton City and w:Tauranga City would be candidates for deletion. But, as I say, not for the likes of Christchurch City or Dunedin City. Nurg (talk) 11:57, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
- Its not the same thing, as noted this is a territorial authority district while Category:Napier, New Zealand is for the settlement, like civil parishes in England it might not be appropriate to have the distinction if the boundaries are similar to the settlement or are longstanding. Crouch, Swale (talk) 12:39, 26 July 2021 (UTC)
- The boundaries are more than similar – they are either identical or have very minor differences. That is what I meant when I said, "the urban area of Napier is essentially the same as Napier City". Nurg (talk) 08:53, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
- As far as I can see looking at GeoNames more than half of the TLA is rural and includes places in Bay View and Petane. If I look at Hastings (which was split on Wikipedia in January) it does indeed include a far larger area and its boundaries date from 1989 while the Wikipedia article for Napier City Council doesn't mention any boundary changes. Hastings district in England does include a small amount of rural land to the east but its mostly urban and its boundaries last changed in 1938. I have produced a table at w:User:Crouch, Swale/District split for districts in England (which mentions Hastings) so perhaps I should also produce one for New Zealand. Crouch, Swale (talk) 11:15, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
- Try this. Go to the Statistics NZ map (as Stats NZ determine urban areas and the urban-rural boundaries) at https://statsnz.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=6f49867abe464f86ac7526552fe19787. Search for Napier. From the layer list, tick Urban Rural and the next lower level "Urban-Rural Areas - 2021". You should see the urban-rural boundaries for urban areas such as (from the north) Whirinaki, Napier, Clive, Whakatu, Hastings etc. See if there is any significant difference between the urban boundary and the Territorial Authority boundary. You might have to toggle the two layers on and off in turn to compare them where they coincide. As far as I can see, the only difference is that the urban area excludes the lagoon. Nurg (talk) 00:22, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
- OK, I see, the urban area's boundaries do indeed apparently extend out far further and include almost all of the district. City Population shows the different boundaries clearer and gives the urban area as pop 66,300 (2020) and 104.9 km²[1] and the district as 66,300 (2020) and 105.5 km²[2] by contrast for Christchurch the urban area is 383,200 (2020) and 295.2 km²[3] (and 388,130 for the urban agglomeration) but the district is 394,700 (2020) and 1,415 km²[4]. The question then is what needs to be done with all of them? There appears to be 67 districts in New Zealand[5] so if all but 1 or 2 of them have distinctly different boundaries I'd just allow this to be separate for consistency but if say 10 of them are nearly the same then I'd consider making a rule than they can be combined meaning that Category:Napier, New Zealand is categorized as a district and Category:Napier City redirects there. Crouch, Swale (talk) 11:13, 4 August 2021 (UTC)
- Try this. Go to the Statistics NZ map (as Stats NZ determine urban areas and the urban-rural boundaries) at https://statsnz.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=6f49867abe464f86ac7526552fe19787. Search for Napier. From the layer list, tick Urban Rural and the next lower level "Urban-Rural Areas - 2021". You should see the urban-rural boundaries for urban areas such as (from the north) Whirinaki, Napier, Clive, Whakatu, Hastings etc. See if there is any significant difference between the urban boundary and the Territorial Authority boundary. You might have to toggle the two layers on and off in turn to compare them where they coincide. As far as I can see, the only difference is that the urban area excludes the lagoon. Nurg (talk) 00:22, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
- As far as I can see looking at GeoNames more than half of the TLA is rural and includes places in Bay View and Petane. If I look at Hastings (which was split on Wikipedia in January) it does indeed include a far larger area and its boundaries date from 1989 while the Wikipedia article for Napier City Council doesn't mention any boundary changes. Hastings district in England does include a small amount of rural land to the east but its mostly urban and its boundaries last changed in 1938. I have produced a table at w:User:Crouch, Swale/District split for districts in England (which mentions Hastings) so perhaps I should also produce one for New Zealand. Crouch, Swale (talk) 11:15, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
- The boundaries are more than similar – they are either identical or have very minor differences. That is what I meant when I said, "the urban area of Napier is essentially the same as Napier City". Nurg (talk) 08:53, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
@Nurg, Schwede66, and Crouch, Swale: Closed (no consensus) Josh (talk) 22:29, 31 March 2022 (UTC)