User talk:Slaunger/Archives/2010/11

Le poids!

fr:Après quelques coups de téléphones : pour le Muséum de Toulouse nous mettrons le poids.

en:After a few phone calls: to the Museum of Toulouse we will put the weight value.

grâce à toi! --Archaeodontosaurus (talk) 10:57, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Happy birthday

Rosenstrauß

Erdbeerkuchen

Your present: a new underwater camera!

Kims Geburtstag

Der Kim, der hat Geburtstag heute,

das ist für alle eine Freude!

Die Kinder steh'n an seinem Bett

und sind zu ihm besonders nett.

Schnell schlüpft er in die besten Hosen,

am Frühstückstisch gibt's rote Rosen.

Der Kuchen stammt von seiner Frau,

das weiß ich zufällig genau,

und in der Mitte ist zu lesen:

Es sind schon 40 Jahr gewesen,

dass Kim das Licht der Welt erblickt.

Er ist nun heute ganz entzückt,

dass alle Welt ihm gratuliert.

So manch' Geschenk die Stube ziert,

und auch aus München kommt eins an,

das hoffentlich er brauchen kann.

Wir wünschen dir, wie's Spanien tut:

Amor, dinero y salud!

Ingeborg & Hans

--Schnobby (talk) 06:18, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

Dear Ingeborg and Hans!

Thank you so much! I am very emotionally moved by your verse. I do not think someone has ever written a verse for me on the occasion of my birthday before. The morning has been great and very close to how you have described it above. Kids did come to the bed singing that Danish birthday song, we have discussed preciously. My son had made muffins, and there was a lovely morning table with "rundstykker", candle lights and presents.

When I arrived at work my collegues sang the same song again, I got a nice present with some concert tickets, and they had made a nice poster collecting some photographic memories from work over the years.

And thank you for the flowers, the cake and the new underwater camera. I appreciate all of them.

But there is also a "rund" birthday in München today! More about that on your own talk page shortly.

--Slaunger (talk) 08:53, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

Dear Kim,

seems to be a nice birthday for both you and Hans. Have a look at my talk page! Kind regards, Ingeborg --Schnobby (talk) 11:23, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

Because you asked

Hi Slaunger. You asked about color of the iceberg. I added the explanation to the description File:Icebergs in the High Arctic - 20050907.jpg. And do not even think about opposing the image now after all my efforts to get response for your question . Regards.--Mbz1 (talk) 16:13, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

Hi Mila, thank you for making an effort to figure out what the "brown stuff" was. I actually thought myself that it could be leftovers from walruss, and I see it mentioned as one possible explanation (among other possibilities). I've not seen an iceberg like that myself, although I have seen quite a few. That is why I was curious what it could be. I know you are kidding when you write "and do not even think about opposing the image now after all my efforts to get response for your questions " due to the smiley. And you of course also know that I would not be biased in a review due this comment. Just be careful in your phrasing that such comments are not misunderstood by others, who might interprete it differently , especially considering the lengthy and painful process we have just been through on COM:AN/U. --Slaunger (talk) 21:09, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

AN/U was absolutely unnecessary reminder. Of course I was kidding, and I intend to continue to do the same, when I feel like to. Regards. --Mbz1 (talk) 22:37, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for your help and being a guide. Mulazimoglu (talk) 08:10, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

Working Man's Barnstar

		Working Man's Barnstar
		I hereby award You, Kim Hansen a.k.a. user Slaunger, The Working Man's Barnstar for over 12,000 contributions on Commons. It is great and tireless work. Well done! Keep going! --George Chernilevsky talk 15:07, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

I'm very pleased to see this. It is well-deserved! Walter Siegmund (talk) 20:35, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Seconded. ++Lar: t/c 22:02, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Mediator Barnstar

		Mediator Barnstar
		I hereby award Slaunger the Mediator Barnstar for his special talent in mediating wiki conflicts -- Alvesgaspar (talk) 21:22, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Unexpected bursts of kindness

Dear George and Alvesgaspar,

Wow, I am offline a few days and what meets my eye, when I logon again: Two barnstars! Thanks a lot, they mean a lot to me, and thank you Walter and Larry for your greetings as well! --Slaunger (talk) 20:47, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

Removal of a vote

Hi Slaunger,

I so sorry, of course it was a mistake! As an apology I will invite you to a beer (or a coffee or somethingh like that), if you ever visit Friedrichshafen ...

Sorry again and kind regards from Friedrichshafen Dietrich --Dietrich Krieger (talk) 22:10, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Maybe not such a good idea

Hi slaunger, I do not believe writing reviews in one native language is a good idea. Instead of a reviewer translating his comment, everybody, who is interested in review should translate it, and sometimes without even knowing what language review was written in. Reviews could be written in both languages a native one and in English, but to translate it in English (I mean using free online translation) should be a reviewer responsibility IMO. Regards.--Mbz1 (talk) 21:46, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

Hi Mila, Are you a mind reader? I was just looking at the discussion. I will reply there to keep the discussion centralized. --Slaunger (talk) 21:52, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

Okay take your time, and I'd like to make one more point please. I believe it should be a reviewer responsibility to read and understand what is written in info for a nomination. My latest image was opposed because it was "black and white" if my translation was correct, but I specifically mentioned in the info that the image was practically not post processed.--Mbz1 (talk) 22:23, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

It took me some time as I had to translate from my native language into English. I do agree with you that it is the responsibility of the reviewer to read and understand what is written in info for a nomination. --Slaunger (talk) 22:30, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

Your Comments about Trajan, and the following discussion

Hi Slaunger.
I gave you an answer on the FPC review page, but I think it may be boring to our friends. Then I decided to transfer my thoughts on your personal talk page. I hope I will be clear enough

Hi Jebulon,

I agrre it is a good idea to bring to my (or your) talk page as it is an issue between you and me and not the entire FPC community.

 Comment Hi Jebulon. I think you are overreacting or maybe it is just another one of those multilingual miscommunications? Do I find the photo "boring". Since you ask directly: "Yes". I did not want to write that explicitly as I found that would not be helpful. It is probably possible for the subject to be visualized in a manner, which would make it feature-worthy according to my preferences. I wish I could provide explicit directions as to what could be done in that respect. That is something, which I can sometimes do. In this case I have no specific idea. I would probably have to see the subject in real life to get some. That is what I tried to express in my review. In the future, please assume good faith and ask me for clarification on an explanation if you feel an image is being reviewed unfair by me.

I am not overreacting, only reacting with my own personality. If you think a picture is "boring", say it. I would prefer clear words. If your intention was to put some chantilly cream around your cake to make it more soft, I'm afraid you failed in this case...

They reason why I would normally not state that I find an image boring, is that it is of little use for the nominator. The nominator will naturally think, that the nominated picture is quite the opposite. Thus, I find it more relevant to try an explain as explicit as possible and to reasonable detail level, why I does not pass my bar. There is balance though to the detail level. I already write quite lenghty review comments (compared to most other reviewers) trying to be reasonably specific with my concerns, yet I do not really have the time to write a full review each time I oppose.

I do think you should oppose images you do not find feature-worthy, nomatter what the reason is for you not fancying them. If you are turned off by the geometric distorion in some panoramas, i think it is fair to oppose for that reason. I think it is a misunderstanding to abstain to vote from such nominations as a tacit oppose. Better make it explicit. The opposing reason can often provide feedback for the nomintor, which he may use in future work. That is how many "old" users here have improved over time.

An opposing vote to a (deformed) panorama is useless for the nominator, because it is a question of principle. It cannot be used for any improvement. I think opposing votes "by principle" (some reviewers do so, sometimes or systematically, hidden by technical arguments, but in fact because of they think they must be the only specialists) are unfair for the nominator: the picture begins with a handicap of (-1). I made a comment about this in the review page...

I do not entirely agree with that. Often a panorama can be restitched using an equilateral or other less geometry distorting projection, which can help address this issue. I do not like geometric distortion in panoramas either, and I think it is often possible to make them without. I do not have many FPs, but two of them are panoramas without any significant geometric distortion IMO

• 
• 

Just to be absolutely clear about one thing. It is the photo I am opposing, not you. I think you are a great contributor, and I think I have mentioned that on more than one occasion on your talk page.

To put a picture in FPC is not insignificant (to me, maybe to others too). It is (it should be...) the result of technics, reflections, improvements, choices, work and rework. Something like a "Personal" involving. Then every opposition is somewhere a bit personal. It is acceptable, but no need to be naïve. When somebody here reacts strongly ("strong" and "strongly" are not swearwords, by the way) against an opinion, the systematic answer is :"Oh, nothing personal". Of course...In this way, I'm not opposing you neither. A contradiction: you think I'm a great contributor ? This is a "personal" compliment...

I do agree with your view of the personal "blood" you put into a nomination (or should do). Often there is a lot of work involved and it is challenging not to take it personally, when a reviewer opposes (and you disagree with the reason given). I have tried that myself a few times. I recall this FPC clearly: Commons:Featured picture candidates/Image:Saxifraga nivalis close-up trimmed upernavik 2007-07-02.jpg from back in 2007. From my comments in the oroginal nomination it is probably not apparent, but I was really demotivated by the decline of this photo back then. I did not agree with the opposers, yet I accepted their opinion. And that related to all the emotions related to taking it. Climbing around on slippery rocks on a small island in North-Western Greenland, seeing, an at first, very anonymous, boring looking plant placed in mud. Seeing a revelation of beauty on close inspection, and being able to capture it very well with my compact camera. It's decline was what really motivated me into wanting to have a parallel "valued image" program here on Commons. Once it was up and running, I nominated it as the first image of mine within the species and got it promoted. Only then was the old FPC decline fully out of the system.

But still, with all this passion, you really have to act professional with the opposers. It should not be held against the opposer that he dares to have a different opinion about an image than the nominator. What I always try to do in these cases is to read what is written, do something else for a while, make dinner, do the laundry, whatever, and then reply after a period of careful thought. That results in much better dialogue in my opinion.

In your comment to me you described the words I had used in the review as "contemptuous". That is a really strong and personally insulting word to use for me if taken at face value. When I first read it I got angry, but then I thought that one of the following could be the case

• Maybe you do not know the exact meaning of that word in English
• Maybe I have misunderstood the exact meaning of "contemptuous" seen in a Danish context
• Maybe you really felt it was contemptuous, but that could be due to a misinterpretation of what I had written

That is why I chose to assume good faith and query if what we had might be an instance of multilingual miscommunication.

Thank you for having read this. --Jebulon (talk) 13:38, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for taking your time to try and reach out and resolve this. --Slaunger (talk) 15:52, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

Hi, me, back.
At first, many thanks for answering.
Then, thanks for explanations, I understand much better.
IMO, there is (well, there was ?) not only instance of multilingual miscommunication, but maybe an ethnological too, if I may say. I see every day here how northern-german-anglo-saxon people of Europe are different from southern-mediterranean-latin people, and furthermore how many differences are visible between americans and europeans. It is not only a question of language IMO, and that's why I like "Commons" very much...
I am not a "cold blood" man as you can see. I am quick-tempered sometimes. Idiomatic french expression is "soupe-au-lait" (milk-soup: when too warm, is goes out the pan, but when the warm stops, bubble -seething- stops immediatly too)... I am not hold against opposers (Here, I needed a dictionary...) but please notice that I didn't react immediatly at your review. I really felt that you not only disliked the picture, but used contemptuous (in French: méprisants) words against it, and then against me, because I "dared" to nominate such a boring picture.
Panoramas: agree, exactly. I supported the Ggia's one (Galata's tower) in the current FPC review.
The word contemptuous: I have only one translation in my dictionary for the words "contempt", "contemptuous" and similar. The french words are "mépris", "méprisant". "Contemptible" is different, meaning "méprisable" (example: Your opinion was contemptuous because considering my picture contemptible ,end of example). Is it really a danish context for these words ? Nothing special in French here... I probably misunderstood and/or misinterpreted what you wrote ( I know no many things about a reviewer called Slaunger, but I see everywhere that contempt is far from him...That's why i was surprised too).
OK now, let's nominate and review friendly other nice pictures in FPC, that's the best way IMO to end this (interesting) debate.
Best wishes from Paris (cold sunday evening after a rainy week-end)--Jebulon (talk) 23:45, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

Dear Jebulon,

Sorry I did not respond yesterday. I tried, but I had problems logging on to Commons yesterday evening. These problems seems to have ceased.

Thanks for your forthcoming and friedly reply. I agree with you that on top of language differences, there are also cultural, ethnological and personal differences. It is true that in most Nordic countries emotional outburts of the "latin" kind are often perceived as more severe and dramatic, than for most others. Nordic cultural norm perhaps dictate a more emotionally constrained approach to communication. Both good and bad. Good because it is easier to remain civil, bad because the frustrations are still there, but just not expressed, so you build up internal stress, without "venting the system". This is not always good either. Because either you explode like a vulcano at some stage or end up in a more permanent frustrated state. An often it takes perhaps longer to forget.

Anyway, with your latest comments, you have shown good faith and will. Thank you for doing that. It is appreciated. I consider this little episode in the saga nordique as being one of the unusual ones, which have a happy end without too much bloodshed. No severe wounds to heal.... back to work. Cheers from snowy Denmark. --Slaunger (talk) 11:15, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Spiriferina rostrata

Thank you for your vote but especially your comment that made me happy. --Archaeodontosaurus (talk) 06:39, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Hi Archaeodontosaurus,

I'm happy, the comment made you happy! I cannot guarantee though, that my review comments on your nominations will always result in happiness. --Slaunger (talk) 07:10, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Your comment at jebulon's talk page

hi slaunger, may i please ask do not talk to me in command tone as you have done here? i was not complaining. i stated my opinion that i am entitled to. in case you are not positive what "complaining" about one vote on a nomination means here's a good example that you aware of although for some unknown to me reason i did not notice even a 10% of reaction i got from you. i was also missing any reactions on oppose reasons like this one for example. please have a nice day.--Mbz1 (talk) 15:37, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

hi mila, i would be delighted to avoid commanding you. it can very easily be avoided if you stop assuming bad faith about other editors. you yourself recently proposed that "I also believe I should be placed on a zero tolerance civility editing restrictions once and for all". had it been the first, the third or the tenth time you complained about opposing votes - because it is a complaint and you know very well it is, i would probably have added a "please", or "could you be so kind", or "when i see you write x i perceive it as y". but we are way beyond that point, unfortunately. you recently wrote somewhere something about that good friends were people who did not pad your shoulder and said everything you did was right. good friends had the honesty of telling you when they thought you were doing something wrong. my commanding was a good friends advice to you. --Slaunger (talk) 19:15, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

I did wrote what you quoted about friends, but it was written in a private email, and this email was not addressed to you. I am more than surprised and concerned you quoted it, I mean I have no idea how you've got to know the content of my private email to another person! About command tone. As I said I consider this unacceptable under any circumstances. Regards.--Mbz1 (talk) 19:31, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

I do not recall where I read that. It must have been on Commons. Emails you have written to other persons have never been forwarded to me. Nor has anyone ever writen to me about specific details in emails send by you. --Slaunger (talk) 19:45, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

I am about 99.99% positive I have never written the things you quoted publicly, but I did write it in one of my very recent private emails. Anyway, I guess I know what there is to know, and I will let it go now.--Mbz1 (talk) 20:00, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

One out of ten thousand: User talk:Tomascastelazo#How are you? --Slaunger (talk) 20:21, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

Oh poor Slaunger, I am really sorry you spent time looking for that. Please accept my apology, and I'd like to repeat one more time please: I will not accept command tone even from a very close friend.--Mbz1 (talk) 20:35, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

Apology accepted. I do not like to use command tone towards my friends either. --Slaunger (talk) 21:10, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for accepting my apology. It is kind of you, and I really felt bad.--Mbz1 (talk) 21:13, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

Hi, Slaunger ! This is to inform you that I read the comment above. Big Brother is watching you here too --Jebulon (talk) 15:51, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

Oh, we are back on sentences beginning with a Capital Letters I see. Thanks you for informing me, oh Big Brother . It appears that yet another episonde in the saga nordique is unfolding. I wonder if there will be any casualties or bloodshed? I am sure you will be amused following it. --Slaunger (talk) 19:14, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

I am sure you will be amused etc... Is that a command tone ?--Jebulon (talk) 23:32, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

I don't know. But I think this chapter is over. --Slaunger (talk) 21:10, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

Let's pray for that.--Jebulon (talk) 21:21, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

Re: your advice

Thanks for the considered opinion. In light of the fact that the thread I replied to began with an attack on every opposer as if they were some kind of idiot, I don't particularly see the need to apologize. Also, I think Niabot has been around long enough to know that it's not a sign of my disrespect to point out that he's German and not Japanese to someone making hyperbolic statements about Japanese art of Commons. Steven Walling 22:01, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

Goats in Guadeloupe

If I remember you ?

But how could I forget you ?

But how could I forgive you ?

You broke my heart, and you think I could forget you ?

You, fine-arts ignorant fair-heard, -beard and -pleats Viking, with your horned helmet and your nordic sagas ?

Euh... Sorry.

A bit tired this evening...

Well. Your question (with photo) is now on the monitors of INRA in Guadeloupe, and I don't really know why I'm so kind with you !!

Let's wait for an answer.

I'll send it to you absolutely free, if you as North-Men promise stop destroying our abbeys but continue devastating the english coasts with your langskips.

euh...Really, it seems to be time for me to go to bed, now...

--Jebulon (talk) 00:09, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

My dear tired French friend,

Thank you for addressing my request, it is very kind of you.

I do not think we come and loot your abbeys. At least not the coming days. The speed-of-travel is too slow on our highways due to snowfall, which I have myself witnessed this morning. But with the tawn in spring, we might come to loot, but not your museums and abbeys. They are too boring . More likely targets will be your wine and food. We will be disguised as tourists. --Slaunger (talk) 08:00, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

Hi Slaunger,

I've received this night an answer from the French West Indies concerning the goat. Unfortunately, my unlucky danish friend, it is not a creole one.

Here's the text of answer in French : J'ai bien reçu votre demande et après observations précises (il existe une description précise du patron et phénotype de la chèvre Créole ( du cabri Créole, ou caprin comme vous voulez !)Cette chèvre bien que de petit format pourrait ressembler à certains animaux croisés et "tout venant "mais serait rejetée comme n'appartenant pas à la race Créole du fait de la couleur de sa robe, ses muqueuses et autres attributs qu'il serait long de vous décrire (il existe un document officiel relatif à sa description)il y a une race puisqu'un groupement d'éleveurs a décidé de mette en place une sélection du caprin Créole si votre ami veut plus d'infos (voire m^me des photos qui sait ?) et est désireux d'écrire un article nous pourrions lui transmettre des photos et autres documents ! n'hésitez pas à nous le demander à moi-m^me ou Me Nathalie Mandonnet nathalie.mandonnet@antilles.inra.fr la réponse peut prendre un pt'it laps de temps du faut de notre surbookage de fin d'année! Me Alexandre

(highlights by me): "[...] Could look like crossing [...]", and should be "[...] rejected as a creole goat, due to the color of the coat, the mucosals, and other specificities missing here"
The lady explains, that if you want to write an article about creole goats and become a specialist, she can provide elements, documents or photos, and apologizes if it may take some delay because of her hard work at the end of the year.
May I say that It is a very kind answer, form and content ? but she don't know anything about the Trajan's affair.
I'm sorry, it seems that you are very unlucky with your guadeloupean species !
No kidding : you are very welcome if I may help you another time.
Friendly from Paris,--Jebulon (talk) 10:54, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Hey Jebulon,

Thanks for forwarding the response to me and for offering your help after the Trajan's affair.. It was really kind of you and Alexandre from INRA to address my question regarding some random goats I saw in Guadeloupe. It is fine, they are not of the creole breed, I just wanted to update the file page for the photo with as precise data as possible as I know nothing about goats. Yes, please say thanks for the kind and thorough reply on my behalf. She does not have to send me material about them for writing an article, as I do not think a goat-fool like me should write about goats. Now, lets see if I have any more livestock photos from Guadeloupe in my image repository.... --Slaunger (talk) 11:53, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

You are welcome ! despite the etc.... --Jebulon (talk) 16:32, 30 November 2010 (UTC)