User talk:Sabung.hamster

Welcome to Wikimedia Commons, Sabung.hamster!

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-- Wikimedia Commons Welcome (talk) 14:51, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

Photos of Malaysian cars in Indonesia

Hi Sabung.hamster,

Nice to meet you ! I recently came across your photos of a Daihatsu Ceria. I would like to thank you for uploading the photos to Wikimedia Commons. It is a rare car in Indonesia, and you managed to find and photograph one for Wikipedia, I am very grateful for your contribution. :]

I see you have also taken many other car and plane photos. I enjoy viewing them very much, and they are also in very, very good quality !

I was wondering if you would be kind enough to find and photograph more Malaysian cars (Proton Exora, Daihatsu Sirion, Proton taksi etc.) in Bali and Indonesia ? In return, I will gladly take any of your requests, or photograph Indonesian cars in Malaysia (Kijang Innova, Avanza, Livina, Fortuner etc.).

Thank you for considering my request, and please keep up the excellent work ! :D

- Aero777 (talk) 15:49, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

^^ Hi Aero777, nice to meet you too, and thanks for your comments - and your retouching, especially about rare Daihatsu Ceria. Sorry for messed-up reply, and I unaware for your request of photograph of Malaysian cars in Indonesia. Yes, of course, I will photograph Proton Exora (I had one Exora photographed at Batam, but way outdated (Dec.2012)), Daihatsu Sirion (which generation? First or second ones?) and ex-taxi Protons (Wira the most spotted one) found in Bali, if I have spare time. Just my single request for you, photograph any Indonesian car found in Malaysia, because for my opinion, some Indonesian car like Kijang Innova, Avanza and its sibling or Livina is overused here to be worth photographed. Sabung.hamster (talk) 01:18, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

Thanks man, and you are most welcomed, it's my pleasure ! :] I will look out for more Indonesian cars to photograph, especially new ones ! I have seen many before, the most common is the Avanza. :]

I will very happy if you can find any Malaysian car at all, old or new ! Exora, Sirion 1 & 2, Wira, anything at all. :] I understand that Malaysian cars are quite rare in Indonesia, so don't worry if you can't find any, I completely understand. Thanks again for considering my little request, I appreciate it very much. :] If you have any other requests, please let me know !

- Aero777 (talk) 12:14, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

Oh, you're welcome too Aero777, and thanks for the reply! Yes, the Avanza is way too common to spot here. Don't know why the Indonesian choose MPVs like Avanza than more global saloons or station wagons.

PS: I post mostly car and aircraft photograph in Commons as building in Indonesia is not permitted to be uploaded here :(.Sabung.hamster (talk) 01:01, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

Hey man, sorry for my late reply. :x I had my final exam yesterday, I was not so active on Wikipedia for the last week. I hope to find and photograph some Indonesian cars this week, if possible ! I believe the reason why MPVs are so popular in Indonesia is because of the unique culture and demographics. Most Indonesian families have at least 2 or 3 children, and most families can only afford 1 car. So it makes a lot of sense to buy a MPV because it is very specious and practical, much more than saloon or hatchback cars. However, I see now that Indonesia is becoming richer and there are many nice luxury cars in Jakarta, especially in Pondok Indah area !

How come taking pictures of buildings is not permitted there ? That is very strange... o.O - Aero777 (talk) 04:28, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

Ah, to the point. Every (not all) newly-rich Indonesians would buy MPVs. But my family didn't (last week my father bought a brand new Toyota Camry Hybrid), as we're small family with just 2 children. Another reason that some said that tax for saloon is expensive than MPVs.

About building photography, in Commons, lack of definition of freedom of panorama in our copyright law is the main reason of that restriction, not because of non-commercial restriction and gov't publication as claimed on page Freedom of Panorama. And architecture is listed as copyrighted object (my own question, is it applies in real life, or in rendering only?). However, in my opinion, the freedom of panorama restriction, have been universally broken elsewhere. Sabung.hamster (talk) 11:27, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

Hi Sabung.hamster,

Long time no see ! I want to send you my utmost thanks for photographing a Proton Exora, Proton Savvy and second-gen Daihatsu Ceria in Bali ! :D I have photographed some Indonesian cars here too, like the Toyota Avanza and Toyota Innova, but I haven't uploaded it to Wikimedia Commons yet... but soon, I will. :]

I will be visiting Bali with my family on 14 December to 17 December, and I hope to photograph as many cars as possible ! Do you have any advice or tips for me on what to do and what not to do ? Do you know where I can get a good mixture of cars in Bali ? Lately, Google Street View is available for Bali, and I see it's 90% Toyota Avanza and Daihatsu Xenia ! So many ! haha I will certainly appreciate any advice you can share with me.

Btw, so sorry I took months to reply to your comment. Thanks for sharing all the info on freedom of panorama rights in Indonesia. I have read a bit, and I am a bit confused too... hmm. I think I have seen a Toyota Camry Hybrid before in your photos (btw, your car photo collection has really grown now ! Great work !), nice car you have ! It must be a very rare car in Indonesia.

Thanks again for your many photos of Malaysian cars in Bali, Indonesia !

Best wishes, Aero777 (talk) 19:52, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

Hi Aero777, long time not see too.

Well, I hope you can enjoy vacation in Bali this month. Just an advice from me, just polite with locals, and when photographing any cars here, try to be not suspicious by security guard. I couldn't guarantee any location that provide good mixtures of car, since every corner in Bali, is, of course, filled by Avanzas and Xenias (my uncle own this one). And in some area you might just spot motorbikes.

About my dad's Camry Hybrid, it is indeed might be rare for its class (considered as luxury saloon here and even riches still don't think hybrids is good for them), and in Bali, including my dad's car, I spot other 2 Camry Hybrids and 2 non-hybrid Camrys. Plus, in my July vacation in Bandung, I spotted 2 other Camry Hybrids, one with Jakarta (unfortunately had nonstock wheels) and other one with Bandung plate. About FoP, I could say it is confused because I'm confused with FoP here too. Someone has critical to it because FoP discrimination for Indonesian objects (buildings etc.) vanished majority archival gallery of Indonesia, which I personally agree (while I not discussing with them, just reading, as long as my photograph of DENIS building is not repressed under name of FoP).

Nevermind about late replies, and thanks to appreciate my hard-work of photographing cars. (not just Malaysian cars!)

NB - sorry for my poor English. Sabung.hamster (talk) 10:27, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

Hi Sabung.hamster,

Thank you for all the great advice and kind comments, I appreciate it ! :]

I will try to 'fit in' and not raise any unnecessary suspicion, and I will definitely be polite to the local people ! I don't mind just photographing all the Avanza / Xenia models... there's so many versions of the same car !

Great information about the Toyota Camry Hybrid, thank you for sharing. In Malaysia, we don't have it, but maybe soon. The Camry Hybrid is very popular in Thailand. I will also keep in mind the FoP rules when photographing anything in Bali. I don't want to break any laws. By the way, speaking of laws, do you think it's important to blank out / censor the license plate for private cars in Indonesia ? Is it a must under Indonesian law ? Because here, the law states it is not compulsory, but many people still censor the license plate to avoid any trouble.

Sorry again, I wish I was more active on Wikipedia like in 2012 and 2013... oh well. Of course, I love all your photos very much, your photo collection is one of the best I know ! Keep it up ! :] And your English is awesome ! Don't worry about it, I understand that English is not commonly used in Indonesia, it's great that you can speak it !

Best regards, Aero777 (talk) 07:52, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

Hahaha, just do it despite every photograph of cars is always Avanza.

For plate censoring, some Indonesians may never take it seriously (including me) until someone would ask me to delete his/her car because of breach of privacy. I don't know why some decide to censored car plates.

For FoP, just go with it. Or if you dare to break it, photograph it and upload it elsewhere (eg at Flickr (me on Flickr: BxHxTxCx Non-Geographic) or Panoramio (me on Panoramio: BxHxTxCx)), since enforcement to Freedom of Panorama outside Commons is relatively negligible.

Well, thanks for appreciating my poor English, and my photo gallery! PS: late reply due to real-life circumstance Sabung.hamster (talk) 13:50, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

Hey Sabung.hamster,

I had a great time in Bali ! Thank you very much for your kind advice, I couldn't reply in time but I did see your message when I reached the hotel ( Sara Residence in Kuta ). I visited so many places in 4 days, and I loved them all ! :D

I took many car photos too ! And you're right, most of the cars were MPVs / Minivans, and some hatchbacks like Ayla, Agya and Brio Satya but very few sedan cars. When I upload my Bali car photos, I will censor the number plates, except the 'DK' state prefix and bottom counter. I have also followed you on Flickr. :]

No problem, I found that many people in Bali can speak great English ! Some of the guides can speak Japanese and Korean too, I was really quite surprised !

I have another small question if you don't mind... I am trying to find out what is the best way to determine the age of a car in Indonesia. I understand that every number plate in Indonesia has a 'xx-xx' counter on it. For example, '12-19'. That means the number plate will expire in December 2019. If I am not wrong, the number plate will expire every 5 years. Thus, can I say that the car with a '12-19' counter was registered in December 2014 ? ( Because 19 minus 5 is 14 ) Unlike Malaysian number plates, it is very hard to judge a car's age by its number plate, because the last two letters are random ( not counters ). I appreciate any help and suggestions you can share with me.

Cheers ! Aero777 (talk) 09:49, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

Hi Aero777,

Thanks for visiting the Island of Paradise. Oh, just recently, I followed back your Flickr as a 'thank you' greeting.

To determine car's age in Indonesia, it's indeed quite hard, and determining registration date could even harder. Every vehicles registered in Indonesia always have expiration date on the plate. And it's indeed five years. However, sometimes it's very hard to determine the car's age because, first, most car owner who decide to replace plate immediately without waiting for expiration date, and two, it's grey-imported car. Determining registration date might even harder because of first, the database is owned by local police, which might never been opened to public and two, possibly the car had its plate replaced by owner when its old plate expired.

So, a vehicle with 12-19 counter might have many meanings, especially for older cars. If the car is brand new, so it's mean it's first registered in December 2014. If it's old car, there' two possibility, the car might assigned new plate, aka first registered December 2014 or plate renewed. To know car's age, try to know when the car is produced in Indonesia, and subtract the expiration date (eg, a car sold or produced in Indonesia from 1997-1999, should has its plate expiration dated either 2017, 2018 or 2019) until it closes to year where the car was sold in Indonesia then. If it's final date outside its reach (its plate expiration dated 2015 or 2016 for a car produced in 1997-1999), it's possible that car's owner may replaced its plate while old plate still valid, or if the car isn't available in Indonesia, it's clearly a grey-market car.

That's my tips, sorry if confusing. Sabung.hamster (talk) 12:31, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

Hey Sabung.hamster,

Thank you very much for all of this invaluable info ! I didn't know it was possible to renew the license plate before the set expiry date. o.O I will need to think of a different plan to find out the age now ! xD I think for new cars, I will use a set year. For example, '12-17' on a Toyota Avanza, I will name it 2012 Toyota Avanza. But if it's '11-14' or older, I will use a different style, like 1991-1995 Toyota Corolla. However, if it's a new car ('01-15' or later) but is very rare in Indonesia, then it might be a grey import, so I will use the same 1991-1995 format. I think this is the best solution for now, without risking false info.

Thanks for following me on Flickr ! You have a nice collection there too ! Unfortunately, I don't have a Panoramio account. :(

I will definitely visit Bali again soon ! Next time, I will visit the northern part as well. :]

Best wishes, Aero777 (talk) 13:08, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

Yes, it always renewed every 5 years. Remember to keep subtract the car's age by 5 until its counter closer to production years or use '1991-95' format if its closest counter are off production years. Looking at Wikipedia pages might help :).

Sorry for "not so" late reply, I thinking around how to , and after this reply, reply me with FlickrMail instead. Cheers! Sabung.hamster (talk) 23:54, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

Great photos

I love your uploads, thank you so much for sharing! I've only been to Batam, and the cars there were mostly very boring (=Singaporean imports, mostly). Especially the locally built things such as the Vantrend and Daihatsu Rocky/Feroza/Taft etcetera. Thanks and keep up the fantastic work! mr.choppers (talk)^-en- 03:50, 10 October 2014 (UTC)

You're welcome, and I also love your (original) uploads, and thanks for use of my photos on Wikipedia. Well, for Batam cars, I felt their cars' variation are much better than ours in Bali, too much MPVs :(. And their ex-Singaporean cars are cheaper in used price than non ex-Singapore equivalent. Sabung.hamster (talk) 03:58, 11 October 2014 (UTC)

Very sad not being able to upload photos of Indonesian building, however

Upload them to id.wikipedia instead! That way you can contribute, and, if the regulation surrounding the ridiculous censorship of buildings have been elevated, we can transferred the picture to commons.--Rochelimit (talk) 13:53, 19 March 2016 (UTC)

@Rochelimit Only god knows when will that the ridiculous censorship of buildings be lifted... Veracious (talk) 10:34, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

FYI: The Saudis are coming to Bali

Hi, you might find http://www.flightmood.com/arrival-of-saudi-arabian-king-will-close-bali-airport-for-45-minutes.html of interest. All that action, I'm sure you'll be down spotting? BTW, do you have an account on Twitter? Mungoola (talk) 07:11, 25 February 2017 (UTC)

Uploading images of cars from Flickr

Today I already uploaded some images of cars from your Flickr that was not uploaded to Wikimedia Commons before. Alex Neman (talk) 09:20, 1 February 2018 (UTC)

Hallo Alex Neman, tolong dicek linknya sebelum diupload, karena semua foto yang saya upload di Flickr dengan link Wikimedia Commons berarti foto tersebut sudah ada. Beberapa foto sudah diupload ulang oleh teman saya, jadi konsultasikan sebelum bertindak. Edit: mohon dicek juga licence-nya karena licence beberapa foto sudah menganut CC-BY-NC-ND/sejenisnya. Sabung.hamster (talk) 09:24, 1 February 2018 (UTC)