User talk:Dheverett

Welcome to Wikimedia Commons, Dheverett!

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File source is not properly indicated: File:Loueverett23.web.jpg

This media was probably deleted.

A file that you have uploaded to Wikimedia Commons, File:Loueverett23.web.jpg, was missing information about where it comes from or who created it, which is needed to verify its copyright status. The file probably has been deleted. If you've got all required information, request undeletion providing this information and the link to the concerned file ([[:File:Loueverett23.web.jpg]]). If you created the content yourself, enter {{Own}} as the source. If you did not add a licensing template, you must add one. You may use, for example, {{self|GFDL|cc-by-sa-all}} or {{Cc-zero}} to release certain rights to your work. If someone else created the content, or if it is based on someone else's work, the source should be the address to the web page where you found it, the name and ISBN of the book you scanned it from, or similar. You should also name the author, provide verifiable information to show that the content is in the public domain or has been published under a free license by its author, and add an appropriate template identifying the public domain or licensing status, if you have not already done so. Warning: Wikimedia Commons takes copyright violations very seriously and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. Please add the required information for this and other files you have uploaded before adding more files. If you need assistance, please ask at the help desk. Thank you!

Avron (talk) 19:24, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Talkback to Avron

Why does this have to be so hard? I've uploaded several photos that I scanned; they were official NASA/Ryan Aeronautical photos that were given to me in 1965 by Ryan Aeronautical. I indicated the source. Now I see a bunch have been deleted. This is really frustrating. What to I have to do to get the photos back on line?

I marked missing source in August; I don't know if changes are made since then. User:Martin H. is the administrator who deleted the files so please talk to him. If the files have realy a free licence, you can reupload them.

When I take a look at File:LouArmsFolded.JPG I understand why they are deleted. 1) "My own collection" is not a valid source 2) I don't understand when author is Ryan Aeronautical (an idependant company) so why license is PD-USGov-NASA ?

--Avron (talk) 18:13, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

File source is not properly indicated: File:Loueverett24.web.jpg

This media was probably deleted.

A file that you have uploaded to Wikimedia Commons, File:Loueverett24.web.jpg, was missing information about where it comes from or who created it, which is needed to verify its copyright status. The file probably has been deleted. If you've got all required information, request undeletion providing this information and the link to the concerned file ([[:File:Loueverett24.web.jpg]]). If you created the content yourself, enter {{Own}} as the source. If you did not add a licensing template, you must add one. You may use, for example, {{self|GFDL|cc-by-sa-all}} or {{Cc-zero}} to release certain rights to your work. If someone else created the content, or if it is based on someone else's work, the source should be the address to the web page where you found it, the name and ISBN of the book you scanned it from, or similar. You should also name the author, provide verifiable information to show that the content is in the public domain or has been published under a free license by its author, and add an appropriate template identifying the public domain or licensing status, if you have not already done so. Warning: Wikimedia Commons takes copyright violations very seriously and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. Please add the required information for this and other files you have uploaded before adding more files. If you need assistance, please ask at the help desk. Thank you!

Avron (talk) 19:25, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

File source is not properly indicated: File:Loueverett02.web.jpg

This media was probably deleted.

A file that you have uploaded to Wikimedia Commons, File:Loueverett02.web.jpg, was missing information about where it comes from or who created it, which is needed to verify its copyright status. The file probably has been deleted. If you've got all required information, request undeletion providing this information and the link to the concerned file ([[:File:Loueverett02.web.jpg]]). If you created the content yourself, enter {{Own}} as the source. If you did not add a licensing template, you must add one. You may use, for example, {{self|GFDL|cc-by-sa-all}} or {{Cc-zero}} to release certain rights to your work. If someone else created the content, or if it is based on someone else's work, the source should be the address to the web page where you found it, the name and ISBN of the book you scanned it from, or similar. You should also name the author, provide verifiable information to show that the content is in the public domain or has been published under a free license by its author, and add an appropriate template identifying the public domain or licensing status, if you have not already done so. Warning: Wikimedia Commons takes copyright violations very seriously and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. Please add the required information for this and other files you have uploaded before adding more files. If you need assistance, please ask at the help desk. Thank you!

Avron (talk) 19:26, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

File source is not properly indicated: File:Loueverett22.web.jpg

This media was probably deleted.

A file that you have uploaded to Wikimedia Commons, File:Loueverett22.web.jpg, was missing information about where it comes from or who created it, which is needed to verify its copyright status. The file probably has been deleted. If you've got all required information, request undeletion providing this information and the link to the concerned file ([[:File:Loueverett22.web.jpg]]). If you created the content yourself, enter {{Own}} as the source. If you did not add a licensing template, you must add one. You may use, for example, {{self|GFDL|cc-by-sa-all}} or {{Cc-zero}} to release certain rights to your work. If someone else created the content, or if it is based on someone else's work, the source should be the address to the web page where you found it, the name and ISBN of the book you scanned it from, or similar. You should also name the author, provide verifiable information to show that the content is in the public domain or has been published under a free license by its author, and add an appropriate template identifying the public domain or licensing status, if you have not already done so. Warning: Wikimedia Commons takes copyright violations very seriously and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. Please add the required information for this and other files you have uploaded before adding more files. If you need assistance, please ask at the help desk. Thank you!

Avron (talk) 19:29, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Copyright status: File:LouArmsFolded.JPG

This media may be deleted.

Thanks for uploading File:LouArmsFolded.JPG. I notice that the file page either doesn't contain enough information about the license or it contains contradictory information about the license, so the copyright status is unclear. If you created this file yourself, then you must provide a valid copyright tag. For example, you can tag it with {{self|GFDL|cc-by-sa-all}} to release it under the multi-license GFDL plus Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike All-version license or you can tag it with {{PD-self}} to release it into the public domain. (See Commons:Copyright tags for the full list of license tags that you can use.) If you did not create the file yourself or if it is a derivative of another work that is possibly subject to copyright protection, then you must specify where you found it (e.g. usually a link to the web page where you got it), you must provide proof that it has a license that is acceptable for Commons (e.g. usually a link to the terms of use for content from that page), and you must add an appropriate license tag. If you did not create the file yourself and the specific source and license information is not available on the web, you must obtain permission through the VRT system and follow the procedure described there. Note that any unsourced or improperly licensed files will be deleted one week after they have been marked as lacking proper information, as described in criteria for deletion. If you have uploaded other files, please confirm that you have provided the proper information for those files, too. If you have any questions about licenses please ask at Commons:Village pump/Copyright or see our help pages. Thank you.

Martin H. (talk) 18:21, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Copyright status: File:XV5AInFlightColor.JPG

This media may be deleted.

Thanks for uploading File:XV5AInFlightColor.JPG. I notice that the file page either doesn't contain enough information about the license or it contains contradictory information about the license, so the copyright status is unclear. If you created this file yourself, then you must provide a valid copyright tag. For example, you can tag it with {{self|GFDL|cc-by-sa-all}} to release it under the multi-license GFDL plus Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike All-version license or you can tag it with {{PD-self}} to release it into the public domain. (See Commons:Copyright tags for the full list of license tags that you can use.) If you did not create the file yourself or if it is a derivative of another work that is possibly subject to copyright protection, then you must specify where you found it (e.g. usually a link to the web page where you got it), you must provide proof that it has a license that is acceptable for Commons (e.g. usually a link to the terms of use for content from that page), and you must add an appropriate license tag. If you did not create the file yourself and the specific source and license information is not available on the web, you must obtain permission through the VRT system and follow the procedure described there. Note that any unsourced or improperly licensed files will be deleted one week after they have been marked as lacking proper information, as described in criteria for deletion. If you have uploaded other files, please confirm that you have provided the proper information for those files, too. If you have any questions about licenses please ask at Commons:Village pump/Copyright or see our help pages. Thank you.

Martin H. (talk) 18:21, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Copyright status: File:Loueverett06.web.jpg

This media may be deleted.

Thanks for uploading File:Loueverett06.web.jpg. I notice that the file page either doesn't contain enough information about the license or it contains contradictory information about the license, so the copyright status is unclear. If you created this file yourself, then you must provide a valid copyright tag. For example, you can tag it with {{self|GFDL|cc-by-sa-all}} to release it under the multi-license GFDL plus Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike All-version license or you can tag it with {{PD-self}} to release it into the public domain. (See Commons:Copyright tags for the full list of license tags that you can use.) If you did not create the file yourself or if it is a derivative of another work that is possibly subject to copyright protection, then you must specify where you found it (e.g. usually a link to the web page where you got it), you must provide proof that it has a license that is acceptable for Commons (e.g. usually a link to the terms of use for content from that page), and you must add an appropriate license tag. If you did not create the file yourself and the specific source and license information is not available on the web, you must obtain permission through the VRT system and follow the procedure described there. Note that any unsourced or improperly licensed files will be deleted one week after they have been marked as lacking proper information, as described in criteria for deletion. If you have uploaded other files, please confirm that you have provided the proper information for those files, too. If you have any questions about licenses please ask at Commons:Village pump/Copyright or see our help pages. Thank you.

Martin H. (talk) 18:22, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

The selected copyright tag isnt valid, no evidence that the file was created by an employee of the NASA or US Army. --Martin H. (talk) 18:52, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Talkback to Martin

Martin, what is going on now? The files I uploaded are all NASA/Ryan Aeronautical files and I think I indicated that. It's really frustrating; these photo are interesting to many people and should not be deleted. I don't understand why I have to keep fighting this battle.

You said that it is from your 'own collection', that it was created by Ryan Aeronatical and that it is public domain because an employee of the NASA created it ({{PD-USGov-NASA}} was the license tag you added). You not created the files yourself, so you cant release it and it is requried that it is public domain to be accepted on Commons. If it was created by an NASA employee this would be fine, however, your 'own collection' is not a source information that allows anyone to verify that it was created by NASA. Also the claimed author, Ryan Aeronautical, is not a branch of the U.S. federal government nor of the NASA. So an unfounded and likely invalid license tag. --Martin H. (talk) 20:37, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

Martin, Ryan Aeronautical was a defense contractor, doing research for NASA. Ryan is no longer around. I'm really fed up with how difficult it is to provide photos on Wikipedia. Every photo I've put us is public domain, created by NASA or contractor to NASA. These photos are historical and interesting to experimental aircraft researchers. You guys make it so difficult. So you guys have successfully removed about every photo I've put up. Nice job. They're public domain Martin; they ARE from my private collection. Lou Everett was my father and Ryan Aeronautical gave our family the photos in 1965, when he was killed at Edwards Air Force Base in the XV-5A. What can I say? They're from my private collection, they were created by a contractor to NASA, and they say property of NASA on the back.

Please note that unlike U.S. governmental works, works from contractors are not automatically in the public domain, even if they were contracted by a U.S. governmental agency. See e.g. en:WP:PD#U.S. government works, third bullet; or COM:L#Works by the US Government, bullets 4 and 5. Lupo 15:07, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Difficult, maybe a confirming letter from the assumed copyright holder, NASA, can help. Maybe there also is a different source e.g. a NASA publication or an archival reference number from NASA or any like this. This would also solve the source problem. Of course private collection is not an information that allows verification. Quoting e.g. my 'private newspaper collection' in an educational context wouldn't be enough too, I have to quote the newspaper with 'author, name, volume, issue, page', no one is interested if I own a copy of that newspaper or not. Any exchange of letters or any private information should then go to COM:OTRS. I don't know of any other solution. --Martin H. (talk) 18:44, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

I'm shocked at how difficult this is. It sounds like I'd have to be a lawyer to put any photos up on Wiki commons. The said part is that there is no more owner. Ryan Aero is no longer around. They were purchased by Northrup Grumman I believe, who turned the archives over to the San Diego Aerospace Museum. But are you saying that I actually have to get some form of letter or an "archival reference number" from NASA, or possibly Northrup Grumman or the San Diego Aerospace Museum, and somehow get that associated with the files? I find it hard to believe that all of the photos of experimental aircraft have gone through this procedure...I see several pages regarding test pilots/aircraft where they would have been in the same situation. This stuff happened back in the '50s and '60s. Wikipedia is not very useful if it's such a fight to get legitimate, interesting and compelling photos of a seminal time in aerospace development. I simply don't have the time to jump through those hoops. So the photos will stay off of Wikipedia. Very nice.

As I said, several of the photos say "Property of NASA." Martin, I was nine years old when my family received these. I don't know who created them. The people who know aren't around anymore. Is this a case of someone being too uptight? I'll try talking to some of the wiki aviation editors; maybe they'll understand.

Property or ownership does not say much about the copyrights. Some other of your arguments are answered in COM:PRP and Commons:What Commons is not#Commons is not concerned about copyright holders not caring. Its your burden to provide evidence that it is a work of the United States federal government and fulfills the requirements of Title 17, Chapter 1, Section 105 of the US Code. I didnt say that you have to get that information the way I suggested, I only made suggestions on how it will maybe possible to provide the required evidences. --Martin H. (talk) 00:13, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for taking the time to respond to me regarding this; hopefully you understand my frustration; it does take time and effort to get these photos uploaded, only to have somebody delete them. I think my problem was that I was confused about what "source" meant as opposed to "author." It made perfect sense that "my own collection" was the source, and the author is something different than the source. I seem to have caused the problem by providing conflicting information. But I don't understand why there are multiple fields that pretty much have to be the same answer, which in this case is: NASA, NASA, and NASA. The way I interpreted the purpose of "source," was, "where did you get the photo that you used to create the file?" which the answer to is "my own collection." THAT ANSWER seems to cause great consternation. You said above that "my own collection" is not a valid source. What is a valid source? NASA? Okay. I'll say that. Now as far as the author? Well, I don't know the name of the photographer...he probably worked for Ryan. But the physical photos say NASA on the back. So I guess it's possible that the contractual agreement between Ryan and NASA was that NASA owned the photos. But is NASA the author? I was just answering the questions in good faith and honestly. Now I need to dig through all of the photos I've uploaded, try to have them undeleted, and say, what, the source is NASA, the author is NASA, and licensing is PD-USGov-NASA? Do you see why this is confusing?

I have one more question: Are you saying I don't have to prove this to you? I just have to TELL you this? All of this because I answered the questions honestly and thoughtfully, and I should have just blurted out NASA, NASA, and NASA? Good gracious.