User talk:Ab8442/Archive 1

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File tagging File:Portrait d'Yves le Pelley du Manoir.jpg

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And also:

Yours sincerely McZusatz (talk) 08:42, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

Bonjour,
Je réponds bien volontiers à votre légitime curiosité : une partie des images a été obtenue par numérisation de pages du livre sur Yves du Manoir publié en 1930-31 par son frère aîné René Fernand Marie né à Saint-Étienne-de-Crossey (Isère) le 11 août 1891 et décédé à Saint-Pierre-de-Lamps (Indre) le 24 mai 1933 comme en témoignent les actes d'état civil consultables à René Fernand Marie LE PELLEY DUMANOIR .
Je lis sur Wikipedia à propos de la durée du droit d'auteur que la directive 93/98/CE fixe la durée de protection des droits d’auteur] à 70 ans après la mort de l’auteur de l’œuvre, ou de la mort du dernier des auteurs s’il s’agit d’une œuvre réalisée à plusieurs. La protection commence à la date à laquelle l’œuvre a été licitement rendue accessible au public s'il s'agit d'une œuvre anonyme ou pseudonyme. Cette directive est entrée en vigueur le 1er juillet 1995, et a été ensuite remplacée par la directive du 12 décembre 2006 qui en reprend les dispositions.
A priori les 70 ans fatidiques prévus par la loi sont échus depuis 2003 et rien ne s'oppose à la numérisation de tout ou partie du livre. C'est ce que j'ai fait pour les images :
D'autres photos proviennent du fonds Galerie de photos d'Yves du Manoir par Frédéric Humbert (fhumbert@gmail.com), auteur d'un site consacré au rugby, qui a répondu ceci à ma requête le 04/07/2014 14:51 : Pour vous répondre d'abord sur le fonds, je suis tout à fait d'accord pour utiliser toutes les photos de ma collection sur Wikipedia (il y a en a déjà de nombreuses). J'ai uploadé une demi douzaine de mes photos de YdM sur Wikimedia dans la galerie YdM en renseignant bien tous les champs relatifs à la propriété intellectuelle : pour moi toutes ces photos appartiennent au Domaine Public. C'est une évidence pour les photos de presse et les cartes postales (les photos tombent dans le domaine public 70 ans après parution).. A priori ce sont les images :
Hormis les photographies prises avec un appareil photographique, toutes les images proviennent :
  1. de la numérisation par mes soins de pages du livre sur Yves du Manoir publié en 1930-31 par son frère aîné René Fernand Marie, ouvrage libre de copyright ;
  2. de photos uploadés par Frédéric Humbert dans la galerie YdM [1] et libres de copyright ;
  3. de photos téléchargées depuis le même fonds Galerie de photos d'Yves du Manoir (pareillement libres de copyright puis entrées) par mes soins dans .
J'espère vous avoir correctement renseigné et reste à votre disposition pour tout renseignement complémentaire. Cordialement Ab8442 (talk) 13:22, 23 July 2014 (UTC)
Bonjour, Malheureusement, je ne parle pas Français. Permettez-moi de répondre en anglais:
I had some difficulties with understanding but it seems you wanted to tell me that those Files are public domain for various reasons. Please go ahead and edit each file page to give the necessary information to keep those files. Make sure to include the original source, date of publication, place of publication, author and death year of the author. Afterward add the appropriate license template (e.g. {{PD-old-70}} {{PD-EU-anonymous}} etc). --McZusatz (talk) 18:14, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

File:YdM 1923 – Saint-Louis.jpg

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JuTa 18:12, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

File:Ydm 11 avril 1926 – Paris-Londres.jpg

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JuTa 18:15, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

File:Sélection française-All Blacks – Colombes 11 janvier 1925.jpg

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JuTa 18:17, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

File:Ydm 26 mai 1927 – Espagne-France.jpg

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JuTa 18:18, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

File:YdM 27 avril 1924 – Paris-Londres.jpg

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JuTa 18:20, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

File:Yves du Manoir - Aviateur 1927.jpg

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JuTa 18:24, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

File:Yves du Manoir Funérailles au Père-Lachaise 7 janvier 1928.jpg

File:Yves du Manoir Funérailles au Père-Lachaise 7 janvier 1928.jpg has been listed at Commons:Deletion requests so that the community can discuss whether it should be kept or not. We would appreciate it if you could go to voice your opinion about this at its entry.

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Please remember to respond to and – if appropriate – contradict the arguments supporting deletion. Arguments which focus on the nominator will not affect the result of the nomination. Thank you!
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JuTa 18:26, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

File:Yves du Manoir - Reuilly 3 janvier 1928.jpg

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Please remember to respond to and – if appropriate – contradict the arguments supporting deletion. Arguments which focus on the nominator will not affect the result of the nomination. Thank you!
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JuTa 18:27, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

File:Yves du Manoir - Photos équipes 1922.jpg

File:Yves du Manoir - Photos équipes 1922.jpg has been listed at Commons:Deletion requests so that the community can discuss whether it should be kept or not. We would appreciate it if you could go to voice your opinion about this at its entry.

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JuTa 18:28, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

File:Yves du Manoir - Brive 11 décembre 1927.jpg

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JuTa 18:28, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

File:Yves du Manoir - sous-lieutenant aviateur mai 1926.jpg

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JuTa 18:29, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

File:Yves du Manoir - mai 1927.jpg

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JuTa 18:30, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

File:Yves du Manoir - France-Roumanie stade Jean Bouin 15 mai 1927.jpg

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JuTa 18:30, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

File:Yves du Manoir 1920 bachelier.jpg

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JuTa 18:31, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

File:Yves du Manoir en grand uniforme de polytechnicien.jpg

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JuTa 18:33, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

File:Pierre Mouronval.jpg

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Shev123 (talk) 12:59, 15 August 2017 (UTC)

Source of derivative work is not properly indicated: File:Statue de Mortenol.jpg

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Ronhjones  (Talk) 22:09, 14 October 2018 (UTC)

File tagging File:Hyacinthe de Bougainville (X 1799).jpg

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And also:

Yours sincerely, ديفيد عادل وهبة خليل 2 (talk) 16:54, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

@JuTa and Ronhjones: What do you think of all these photos? ديفيد عادل وهبة خليل 2 (talk) 16:56, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
I think most are OK. Some need to be relinced to {{PD-old}} or similar. Sone would need a regular DR per "no FOP" in France or similar. But "no permission" for likely all uploads of this user is too much... --JuTa 17:03, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
Yes, images need appropriate sources and licenses ديفيد عادل وهبة خليل 2 (talk) 18:10, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
Merci de l'intérêt que vous portez à mon travail où l'on trouve des photographies – dont je suis l'auteur ou qui m'ont été communiquées personnellement par leurs auteurs – qui m'inspirent cette question de savoir s'il convient, par exemple, de demander, afin de vous la communiquer, l'autorisation au statuaire mort depuis près d'un siècle pour publier une photographie récente de son oeuvre, des ouvrages versés dans le domaine public, etc. Je n'ai pas de temps à perdre pour reprendre un travail des années antérieures qui n'a jamais soulevé de questions jusqu'à ce jour et, ce faisant, satisfaire les caprices de quelques-uns.Ab8442 (talk) 20:09, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
@AntonyB:
Je t'appelle au secours car on s'apprête à massacrer à la tronçonneuse mon travail de plusieurs années et je ne comprends absolument pas ce qu'il convient de faire pour éviter ce désastre, notamment du fait que mon anglais est plus que limité et ce n'est pas à mon âge (77 ans) que je vais me mettre à l'apprendre. Peux-tu m'aider et me préciser quelle(s) ligne(s) d'instructions faut-il ajouter et où pour satisfaire et ديفيد عادل وهبة خليل 2 et JuTa ? Par avance, merci de ta compréhension et de tes éclairages. – Ab8442 (talk) 04:33, 19 November 2019 (UTC)

Bonjour Ab8442 et merci de ta confiance. Tu es tombé sur qqn qui s'assure (souvent à juste titre, il y va de la réputation de Commons) que les auteurs des illustrations ne peuvent pas revendiquer des droits d'auteur (c'est pourquoi par exemple, on ne peut pas téléverser des photos des colonnes de Buren). Ce qui ne va pas du tout dans ces fichiers (j'ai consulté les trois premiers seulement), c'est qu'il n'y a pas de catégorie pour expliquer qu'il s'agit de documents anciens donc tombés dans le domaine public. Tu peux ajouter la catégorie {{PD-old-100}} for works by authors who certainly died more than 100 years ago (en français : pour des illustrations dont les auteurs sont certainement morts depuis au moins un siècle). Je n'ai malheureusement que très peu de temps disponible pour consulter tous les fichiers. N'hésite pas à revenir vers moi si nécessaire. Bien cordialement. AntonyB (talk) 10:23, 19 November 2019 (UTC)

Ab8442 et AntonyB C'est en même temps assez absurde de se déclarer détenteur du droit d'auteur d’œuvres dont on n'est pas l'auteur et qui sont pour la plupart très anciennes. Dire simplement qu'elles sont désormais dans le domaine public aurait été plus judicieux... - Groupir ! (talk) 11:17, 19 November 2019 (UTC)
Groupir ! Dois-je comprendre qu'il me faut tout simplement supprimer que je déclare en être l'auteur – sauf bien évidemment s'il s'agit de photographies soit prises par moi, soit communiquées à moi directement par leurs auteurs – quand bien même j'aurais procédé à un toilettage préalable de l'image, et que j'ajoute en revanche en permission le conseil que me donne AntonyB ? Ab8442 (talk) 11:36, 19 November 2019 (UTC)
Ab8442 Ça dépend des images, bien sûr, puisque je vois qu'il y a aussi de simples photographies dont tu es, semble-t-il, réellement l'auteur (celle-ci, celle-là, ...). Pour les scans d'archives, le fait d'avoir réalisé la photographie ou le scan du document n'en fait pas de toi l'auteur. Tu dois donc simplement déclarer en quoi le document rentre-t-il dans le domaine public, et à la limite faire une petite mention de ton travail dans la ligne "auteur" de la description, pour tes améliorations de l'image. - Groupir ! (talk) 11:50, 19 November 2019 (UTC)

Merci Groupir ! de ton aide mais je ne comprends pas bien. J'ai consulté les trois premiers fichiers (je ne suis pas allé plus loin). Je n'ai jamais imaginé que Ab8442 avait des droits d'auteur dessus puisque je proposais de les catégoriser {{PD-old-100}}, catégorie destiné aux illustrations dont l'auteur est mort depuis plus d'un siècle (donc pas encore Ab8442, heureusement pourlui !) Merci de tes conseils qui lui seront utiles.

Bien cordialement. AntonyB (talk) 15:52, 19 November 2019 (UTC)

Groupir ! et AntonyB
Le massacre à la tronçonneuse que je craignais vient d'avoir lieu. Wikipedia a pris un virage "juridique" trop chronophage que je ne peux plus ni ne veux suivre. Ce sera donc pour moi la fin d'une belle histoire commencée avec l'article Yves du Manoir et la bienveillante assistance d'AntonyB. De nombreux articles auxquels j'ai contribué sont désormais émasculés, mais du moment que TwoWings et JuTa sont convaincus d'avoir contribué à l'amélioration de la qualité de l'encyclopédie et de sa crédibilité, je n'ai rien de plus à ajouter. Bien cordialement à tous. -- Ab8442 (talk) 17:54, 18 February 2020 (UTC)
Cela n'est en rien un "virage juridique", c'est une question à la fois de règles et de droits. C'est triste de voir que tu n'en as rien à faire que tu refuses d'essayer de comprendre ou de te remettre en question. Tu te positionnes en victime et c'est franchement déplacé. Mais si c'est ton état d'esprit, Wikimédia n'aura pas perdu grand-chose avec ton abandon (même si c'est dommageable car tu pouvais sans doute aussi apporter du bon). Bon vent. --TwoWings * to talk or not to talk... 13:13, 19 February 2020 (UTC)
TwoWings
Je ne me positionne absolument pas en victime que je ne prétends pas être, ni ne conteste le bien fondé de votre travail. J'observe néanmoins que les choses se faisaient plus simplement et à l'évidence avec une rigueur moindre il y a six ans au moment de mes débuts. Je ne veux surtout pas polémiquer, votre travail s'avère indispensable. J'indique seulement que je ne peux plus ni ne veux suivre d'autant plus que l'interface est en anglais, que mon anglais est plus que limité (désolé, mais j'ai fait allemand première langue !), que par chance je ne l'ai jamais dû le pratiquer professionnellement (sauf au tout début de ma vie professionnelle) et qu'enfin ce n'est pas à mon âge (77 ans) que je vais me mettre à le réapprendre.
Peux-tu me préciser ce qui te fait conclure dans mes propos « que j'en n'en as rien à faire que je refuse d'essayer de comprendre ou de me remettre en question ». J'écris seulement et tout simplement que je suis à présent trop vieux pour suivre. Peut-être changeras-tu de point de vue quand à ton tour tu atteindras mon âge. Je suis vraiment désolé pour toi de lire la réaction que mon message t'aura inspirée. Bien cordialement et sans rancune -- Ab8442 (talk) 14:11, 19 February 2020 (UTC)
Excuse-moi si j'ai mal interprété ton précédent message. Il me donnait vraiment l'impression que tu "pleurnichais" et que tu en voulais à ceux (moi entre autres) qui essayaient de faire en sorte que les choses soient faites correctement (note que je ne me positionne pas non plus en modèle absolu, commettant moi aussi des erreurs...). A propos de la langue, je pense qu'il y a quand même plusieurs pages qui possèdent des traductions en français sur Commons, et aussi des gens à qui poser des questions. En espérant donc que tu puisses finalement continuer à contribuer, même si cela te contraindrait à faire décroitre tes contributions à cause des efforts à consentir pour chacune d'entre elles.
Encore désolé si j'ai mal perçu le ton de ton précédent message. Cordialement. --TwoWings * to talk or not to talk... 16:24, 19 February 2020 (UTC)
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