Commons:Categories for discussion/Current requests/2009/02/Categories of train stations in the Czech Republic

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Categories of train stations in the Czech Republic[edit]

An unification of category names[edit]

Names of categories for the Czech railway stations have many various formats. They would come to unificated. --ŠJů (talk) 10:58, 13 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Questions[edit]

Possible preferred pattern[edit]
  • var. 1.1: "XXX, train station" (now cca 46 cases)
  • var. 1.2: "XXX (train station)" (now cca 3 cases)
  • var. 1.3: "Train station XXX" (now cca 38 cases)
  1. I support 1.1 --ŠJů (talk) 09:29, 13 February 2009 (UTC) I would prefer 1.2, which is in better accordance with usance of category nomenclature of Czech geographical items at Commons much like at the Czech Wikipedia, but this option is more divorced from status quo. --ŠJů (talk) 10:58, 13 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  2. I would prefer 1.2 but 1.1 is also acceptable --Miaow Miaow (talk) 10:14, 13 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  3. I prefer 1.3, but 1.2 is also fine. However I don't like 1.1. --Daniel Baránek (talk) 11:23, 13 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Congratulations for the initiative. I would prefer 1.2 clearly showing that the local name has priority and the text between brackets is for tourists ;)), but I have no fundamental problems for the other solutions. --Foroa (talk) 15:26, 13 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  5. Strong support variant 1.3. --Jagro (talk) 16:33, 13 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  6. Hi all, a quick semi-off-topic comment first - I feel that the "local use" has limited application, as the sign at the train stations would like not say "train station" anyway, just give the stop. As for choice of options, I clearly lean to 1.1 - there should be consistency on COMMONS first. There is also, at least with geographical terms on the English Wikipedia (the primary sister project, as Commons is an English-language project) a clear convention that uses "XXX, disambiguation" for locations, and "XXX (disambiguation)" for non-location terms - i.e. "Newmarket, New Zealand" and "John Smith (doctor)". I think it is strongly preferable to stay in/move towards that logic. 1.2 makes a logical diversion from it, and 1.3 is just not quite right in English Grammar, as far as I am aware. Cheers, Ingolfson (talk) 11:44, 14 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    I agree with the rule but disagree with the interpretation. The term "train station" is not a geographical disambiguation, in which we would need indeed the form xxx, province/count(r)y, ... . In this case, "train station" says what it is, and according to commons usage, it should be xxx (train station), as all other forms "proper name" (what: singer, artist, province, station, ...). --Foroa (talk) 13:48, 14 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    Foroa perceived right the Ingolfson's mistake. Words "train station" aren't a location term. However not even the first argument is doubtless. See en:Category:Cities and towns in the Czech Republic or en:Category:Villages in the Czech Republic (or en:Category:Villages in the Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina) at en: or Category:Villages of South Bohemian Region at Commons. The usance of disambiguations is not either uniform at the English-language Wikipedia yet, expecially concerning the Czech geography. But it looks to be nearly a consensus at 1.2 variant here, except Jagro. --ŠJů (talk) 17:15, 14 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  7. Version 1.2 is IMHO the best, but 1.1 isn't so bad. --Harold (talk) 19:51, 16 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Distinction between "zastávka" (train stop) and "nádraží" (train station)[edit]
  • var. 2.1: to make distinction ("Liberec, train station", "Všenory, train stop")
  • var. 2.2: to use "train station" for both types ("Liberec, train station", "Všenory, train station")
Comments
  • Some of stations have expressed its type in its name, in cases of others it can be difficult to discover (it's no stated in common timetables)
  1. I support 2.2 --ŠJů (talk) 09:29, 13 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  2. I strongly support 2.2 --Miaow Miaow (talk) 10:14, 13 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Support 1.1. because that allows strangers like me to learn the distinction between zastávka and nádraží in your language. Commons shoudl be educational. --Foroa (talk) 15:29, 13 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    The Central European term "zastávka" ("Haltepunkt", Haltestelle" etc.) come up about to the US railway term "way station". It is generally the simple station without a track branching. But the term "zastávka" isn't used in case of the metro or funicular stations. --ŠJů (talk) 02:26, 14 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  4. 2.2, I think, that is better, to diferent it.--Jagro (talk) 16:33, 13 February 2009 (UTC) Oups, mistake, I thaught 2.1 and wrote 2.2 with argument for 2.1... So 2.1--Jagro (talk) 18:35, 14 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    Are you sure, that you recognise it on each occasion? I know no open source, which includes such data. --ŠJů (talk) 09:29, 17 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  5. 2.2, clearly, UNLESS there is an OFFICIAL definition between the two / an OFFICIAL list for what should apply. If some government or railway department makes this, I could see 2.1 be okay. Ingolfson (talk) 11:45, 14 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  6. I support 2.2 --Podzemnik (talk) 16:43, 14 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  7. I support 2.2 too. --Harold (talk) 19:51, 16 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The names, which officialy include the word "nádraží" (a train station) or "zastávka" (a stop)[edit]
  • var. 3.1: to keep the official name of station only ("Praha hlavní nádraží", Praha-Strašnice zastávka")
  • var. 3.2: to supplement an English translation too ("Praha hlavní nádraží, train station", "Praha-Strašnice zastávka, train stop")
Comments
  • In cases of French or German stations are used the original French or German names only.
  • It's no a common routine at Commons to add some translations to official proper names
  1. I support 3.1 --ŠJů (talk) 09:29, 13 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  2. I think 3.1 should be OK --Miaow Miaow (talk) 10:14, 13 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  3. This queston should be at the top level as it conditions all the other questions. Not a shadow of a doubt: 3.2 because you have a more rich vocabulary (zastávka and nádraží, compared to the simple Bahnhof or gare)), so you should try to educate people. Note that in other languages, you have no difference between a station and a stop, so some extra information might be very useful. --Foroa (talk) 15:34, 13 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  4. 3.1; variant 3.2 includes duplicite information.--Jagro (talk) 16:33, 13 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  5. I understand Foroa's comments, but I am on the fence, leaning towards 3.2 but understanding people not liking that. Ingolfson (talk) 11:47, 14 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  6. I agree with Jagro that var. 3.2 contains duplicate information, so I prefer 3.1. --Podzemnik (talk) 16:42, 14 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  7. Version 3.1. There are duplicate informations in 3.2 (like Jagro). --Harold (talk) 19:51, 16 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comments to Foroa:

  • distinction between "stop" and "station" is common at least in all German speaking countries and in all countries of the former Austria-Hungary (Czech lands including). A German distinguishes "Bahnhof" and "Haltepunkt" or "Haltestelle" (see Category:Haltepunkt Düsseldorf Volksgarten or Category:Haltepunkt Düsseldorf Zoo as examples), Slovak the "stanice" and "zastávka" etc. The Czech usance is nowise anomalous.
  • The question No 3 does not condition the next questions. The other names are identical to name of city, village, city quarter etc. typically. That is why they need a distinguish addition. However the names which include the word "Bahnhof" or "Gare" od "nádraží" or "stanica" or "zastávka" or "Haltepunkt" are unambiguous.
  • Other cases are the names which included word as "město" (a city), "městys" (a town), "obec" (a community], "dědina" or "ves" (a village), "centrum", a point of the compass ("sever", "jih", "východ", "západ", "střed") or other places ("obchodní centrum", "jeskyně", "koupaliště", "lázně", "klášter", ...), (examples: Železná Ruda centrum, Železná Ruda město, Žatec západ, Smržovka střed...). Such like station names have a typical syntax, which is used nowhere else, but only Czech people know this usance. I consent to use the English addition "train station" in such cases.

List of current category names[edit]

Please note that I will move any category when entered in User:CommonsDelinker/commands. Small practical rename problems should not influence you preferences or ultimate choice. --Foroa (talk) 15:49, 13 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

See also cs:Seznam železničních stanic v Česku.

Train station xxx[edit]
Train stop xxx[edit]

Suggestions:

  • var. 1.1 "Train stop XXX" move to "XXX, train station"
  • var. 1.2 "Train stop XXX" move to "XXX (train station)"
Train station in xxx[edit]

Suggestions:

xxx, train station[edit]

Suggestions:

  • var. 1.1: keep
  • var. 1.2: "XXX, train station" move to "XXX (train station)"
xxx station[edit]

Suggestion:

  • var. 1.1 "XXX station" move to "XXX, train station"
  • var. 1.2 "XXX station" move to "XXX (train station)"
xxx (train station)[edit]

Suggestions:

  • var. 1.1: "XXX (train station)" move to "XXX, train station"
  • var. 1.2: keep
Various Czech descriptions[edit]

Suggestions:

  • var. 1.1: move to "XXX, train station"
  • var. 1.2: move to "XXX (train stations)
Czech description is a part of the official name[edit]

Suggestion:

Special cases[edit]

(A qualifier might be by 1.2 variant between bracketing parentheses instead post a comma)

Renamed as agreed per consensus
--Foroa (talk) 19:26, 13 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
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