Talk:Human suffering

The gallery is not of NPOV

I was a bit surprised to find that most pictures in the gallery are focusing only on the suffering of people from countries who won the WWII, neglecting other parts of the world. Indeed, we find no picture from Palestinian exodus and wars imposed by the occupation, also nothing about the current and past situation in Africa, neglecting the fact that this continent is suffering since decades, from high rate of HIV deaths to massacres in Rwanda, starvation in Somalia... The best is to have a balanced image collection reflecting reality in every corner. --Banzoo (talk) 22:27, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

1) Commons has no NPOV policy! 2) In case you haven't read it, I created this gallery in order to present "our most impressive images showing suffering or grieving people", not to satisfy political correctness or to give a scientifically correct and complete representation of the worlds conflicts. Nevertheless, out of the available images I tried to compose a somewhat balanced collection. 3) Oh, surely the German woman in File:Bundesarchiv_Bild_146-1979-025-19A,_Braunschweig,_Kinderleichen_nach_Luftangriff.jpg and the Japanese woman in File:Victim_of_Atomic_Bomb_003.jpg won WWII. 4) And with less political agenda in your mind you might have noticed that the third image in the first row was from Gaza 2009, but had to be deleted as being not a free image. 5) Instead of complaining, how about contributing or searching for fitting images? The images shall show (then) living people with an expression of suffering. 6) I hesitated quite some time to start this gallery, because I somehow expected such criticism as yours.--Túrelio (talk) 05:44, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

I'm sorry, didn't want it to sound like a criticism, but it was more to share my surprise, when you see whole continents and races were neglected in the gallery especially when conflicts are the most raging this days in those places. I was assuming the wide availability of such materials since they are happening in an era when digital cams are in every pocket, but maybe I am wrong. I might missed some pictures of the collection, but I have gone through the gallery trying to find photos of Africans suffering but I failed, America is not present neither. I think the idea of having the gallery is great, but still in its early phase and needs to grow bigger to depict the suffering in a world raged with wars. Finally, would you care expanding your thoughts on what was mentioned in your reply about some "political agenda" and replacing the original title of this topic! Maybe I was wrong to think that this was meant to be a space for discussions and exchanging ideas?--Banzoo (talk) 21:34, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, if I was a bit harsh in my reply. But your claim about "neglecting ... Palestinian ... wars imposed by the occupation" sounded far too much being politically motivated, especially as still everybody can see that there had been an image from Gaza 2009 in the first row. About your replacing the original title ... - well, I didn't replace it, I only put in quotation marks (as I'm free to do so, anyway), because 1) NPOV is not an issue on Commons (we have no NPOV policy, just some common sense), and 2) its your - IMHO misguided - interpretation. In addition, it was a sort of reproach to me, as I was the only contributor to this gallery.

Anyway, though I created this gallery, it's not mine. And as with all wikis, if you think there is something missing, just add it or, if you are unsure, propose to add it. The section "further candidates" was already present when you added your comment. I've told you already my personal "policy" for the content of this gallery: The images shall show (then) living people with an expression of suffering. Of course, that requires that their face is shown. So, no images showing only dead people or only parts of a human body. Remember, this is not a wikipedia article about justice, injustice or whatsoever. It's a gallery of images showing suffering or grieving people. --Túrelio (talk) 08:14, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

I was not claiming anything, I was just expressing my feelings. Anyway, judging automatically the other because of the presence of a narrow selection of some words can be described as well as "misguided" (IMHO). Even though, I have some comments on some pictures that are already present, some photos seem to lack expressions on the face (neutral facial expressions) and revealing only the injuries or nothing, which seems more like if they were taken from a medical book than a gallery exhibiting the human suffering. Maybe I am mistaken and misunderstood your policy of showing "expression of suffering" in the photos. --Banzoo (talk) 22:26, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

This discussion is leading to nowhere. Look, either provide some constructive contributions (search for fitting free images on Commons or elsewhere) or simply start your own gallery. --Túrelio (talk) 06:29, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Well, the reason for my above comment was to understand the policy for this gallery to know how to contribute. Should it focus on facial expressions? Or only photos with gore and wounds would be enough (as in the current state of the gallery now)?--Banzoo (talk) 20:38, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Your totally untrue comment "only photos with gore and wounds as in the current state of the gallery" has finally made it obvious to me, that there is no chance for an understanding between us. Go and make your own gallery. EOD. --Túrelio (talk) 20:47, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Sorry! I didn't express my thoughts well, you have the right to go mad about it. I was referring to the photos with neutral facial expressions (mentioned earlier but with no answer from your side yet). But if you choose to end the discussion it is OK with me, I consider myself banned from this gallery. For the record, I didn't suggest at any time to start any similar gallery, I was trying to understand this one with hope to contribute.--Banzoo (talk) 23:00, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

further candidates:

<gallery> File:Bundesarchiv Bild 101I-134-0778-38, Polen, Ghetto Warschau, Kinder.jpg File:Bundesarchiv Bild 101I-134-0783-37, Polen, Ghetto Warschau, liegender Mann.jpg File:Nghia 1.jpg File:Women & dead child.jpg File:Bundesarchiv Bild 146-1996-036-01, Flüchtlingsfrau mit Wägelchen.jpg File:Chinese civilians to be buried alive.jpg File:April, With Intriguing Books and Suffering Withdrawal.jpg File:Sumiteru Taniguchi back.jpg File:Atom Bomb victim.JPEG File:Bundesarchiv Bild 183-2005-0817-516, Berlin, Betreuung alter Leute im Zoobunker.jpg File:US Navy 050103-N-6020P-206 Two Naval Air crewmen carry a seriously injured Indonesian woman to a waiting helicopter for transportation to a medical facility.jpg File:Prisoners on ground before execution,Taejon, South Korea.jpg File:Starved girl.jpg File:Polish kid in the ruins of Warsaw September 1939.jpg File:Armenian genocide2.jpg File:2008년 중앙119구조단 중국 쓰촨성 대지진 국제 출동(四川省 大地震, 사천성 대지진) IMG 5953.JPG File:No-nb bldsa 6a067.jpg File:Shangaï-enfant 1937.jpg File:Starved Vietnamese man, 1966.JPEG