Module talk:Lingua Libre record

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See also https://github.com/lingua-libre/RecordWizard/blob/master/modules/rw.Record.js#L125-L137

Initial setup: protection[edit]

{{Edit request}} Please template-protect this module. I intend to use it to replace the current implementation of Template:Lingua Libre record, which is already template protected (and should also be marked as a {{Heavily used template}}, I’ll take care of that). As a template editor who’s not a sysop, I can change the template and module as necessary, but I can’t do the initial protection of the page. Lucas Werkmeister (talk) 21:09, 11 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note: I’ve already set up the docs to indicate protection and heavy usage, though that’s not yet the case. I hope that’s not too confusing. Lucas Werkmeister (talk) 21:30, 11 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I've restricted who can edit this template to template editors and admin. Vera (talk) 17:02, 12 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Speaker/locutor vs Author and categories : author is not always the locutor[edit]

See page's categories and wikicode of File:LL-Q33287_(gaa)-Justice_Okai-allotey_(Yug)-abotia.wav, File:LL-Q150 (fra)-Yug-abhal.wav, File:LL-Q150 (fra)-0x010C-Espagne.wav.

@Lucas Werkmeister: Author is not always the locutor. There is an error of categorization when the user account used to connect to Lingualibre Recording Studio (=author) and the speaker (locutor) are different persons. See on File:LL-Q33287_(gaa)-Justice_Okai-allotey_(Yug)-abotia.wav, where author is Yug who provided the connexion to Lingualibre via its account, and locutor was Justice_Okai-allotey, the actual speaker. The category are currently wrong : 

 Categories (++): [[Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation-gaa]] - [[Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Yug]] (+)

A correct version could be : 

Categories (++): [[Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation-gaa]] - [[Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Justice_Okai-allotey]] <!-- [[Category:Lingua Libre upload by Yug]] --> (+)

PR :

Current 
 current code here.
Description of action done here
Proposal 
proposed code to come here
Description of action done here


After checking the eldest recordings from Lingualibre (lingualibre:Q645 → File:LL-Q150 (fra)-0x010C-Espagne.wav), I believe the parameter locutor is always presents in the template, so your Lua variable local speaker = args.locutor or args.speaker or pargs.locutor or pargs.speaker should be used instead of local author = args.author or pargs.author in in line 243 and 260. Yug (talk) 18:17, 27 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Yug: The last wikitext version of the template (source) also used the author, not the locutor, for the category, so I’m not sure whether this should really be considered a bug, or whether the meaning of the categories is just unclear or nonobvious. CCing 0x010C, who added the category in Special:Diff/352550378. Lucas Werkmeister (talk) 11:18, 28 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I think it's a legacy error from early usages. But peer review by 0x010C, WikiLucas00, Poslovitch is welcome yes. Yug (talk) 12:08, 28 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think the template/module should even be categorising by user. If a user wants to add their files to a user category, they can, but we shouldn't be encouraging people to create categories for other users. - Nikki (talk) 06:55, 17 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Hello @Nikki: I also don't see the point of the current approach to create category per wikimedian user-uploader. I, user and uploader Yug, have a patchwork of recordings in various languages —oral or signed—, with various speakers/signers. Those media have not much in common, just being from the same uploader account used to contribute. This current category approach seems wrong to me.
The grouping (aka categories) should be done by locutor (speaker or signer), which can be seen as the artist creating the content. All the files with a same speaker/signers/artist indeed create one consistent dataset. Download per category then makes sense.
This is a simple change to implement if we have some modest support. Yug (talk) 10:31, 29 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Replacing "Recorder" with "Recordist"[edit]

Generally speaking, "recorder" is a term is used for the equipment used for recording and "recordist" is an industry term for the person responsible for recording with a recorder. I'd suggest to replace "recorder" with "recordist" for English. Psubhashish (talk) 00:51, 28 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

+1, it's related to the section above. The account organizing the recording (recordist) is often but not always the voice (locutor). Hugo en résidence (talk) 16:50, 9 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
"Recordist" is an obscure term, I think it would be more natural to say "Recorded by" in English. I think "Spoken by" would also sound more natural than "Speaker" here (since "Speaker" is often used for someone giving a presentation or making a speech). - Nikki (talk) 09:02, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hello Nikki. We are left with "Recorder" which can be understood as 1) the artist ; 2) the wikimedian assistant which visit the artist and record him/her ; 3) « the equipment used for recording » (Psubhashish). Not ideal. Yug (talk) 09:13, 30 January 2024 (UTC) -- (Disclaimer: my voice and Hugo in résidence count as one voice. DM me for clarification.) Yug (talk) 09:14, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I suggested using "recorded by", not keeping "recorder". I don't think using an obscure term would make it clearer ("recordist" is not a word I would expect English speakers to know, I didn't know it until recently, my spellcheck doesn't know it either). "Recorded by" wouldn't mean the equipment used to me (that would be something like "recorded with/using") and it should be clear from the context that it's not referring to the person speaking, because the person speaking is listed separately. - Nikki (talk) 13:32, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Missing category pages[edit]

See Module:Lingua_Libre_record#L-261

If the author account does not have a Commons category already, which is the case for all first time users, the files page:

  • don't get any 'Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by '+ author` , which it should
  • there is no warning that the author category should be created

PR :

Current 
if mw.title.new( authorCategoryTitle ).exists then
	authorCategory = '[[' .. authorCategoryTitle .. ']]'
end
Adds category only if category page exists.
Proposal 
authorCategory = '[[' .. authorCategoryTitle .. ']]'
if mw.title.new( authorCategoryTitle ).exists == nil then
	authorCategoryPageMissing = 'Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by author page missing and to create|' .. delink( { author } )
end
Adds category anyway, but if category page does not exists, add a category signaling the need to create the category page by hand.

Yug (talk) 07:26, 11 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Yug: Both of these are intentional, compare @Nikki’s comment above. Lucas Werkmeister (talk) 17:45, 23 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I still agree with what I said before. The guideline for user categories is very clearly about creating categories for your own contributions. I'm not aware of anything saying it's ok to create categories for other users, let alone saying that it's ok to require them to be created.
Almost all of the current user categories were created by someone other than the user the category is for (see this Quarry query, or this query for the list of categories/creators). That suggests that most people aren't interested in having a category for their files.
(Also pinging @Jérémy-Günther-Heinz Jähnick who has recently created some Lingua Libre categories for other users)
- Nikki (talk) 08:31, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
See message above. I'm not for categories by user-uploader, but in the current section I ask for a better maintenance system which allows us to see which category pages are full with files, should exists, but the page is to create (by hand). Note: I renamed the section's title accordingly. Yug (talk) 10:38, 29 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

author and author ~= ''[edit]

Hello @Lucas Werkmeister: I'm not familiar with Lua... so my apologize if the question is too newbie-like. I see code which looks like a typo to me (JS dev) :

  • if author and author ~= '' (#L-221) and similar
  • speaker and speaker ~= ''
  • speakerId and speakerId ~= ''

Isn't if author and author ~= '' equivalent to if author ~= '' ? Yug (talk) 11:11, 29 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No, because nil ~= '', but we don’t want to run this code for nil values. Lucas Werkmeister (talk) 18:25, 29 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Received, thank you. Yug (talk) 09:08, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Categorization[edit]

Is it possible to fix the module so that files with the language code Q1213 get placed in Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation-salentinu instead of Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation-other (Q1213)? --R'n'B (talk) 16:14, 16 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No. These categories are populated based on the ISO 639-3 code (P220) of the language; as far as I can tell, en:Salentino dialect has no ISO 639-3 language code assigned. Lucas Werkmeister (talk) 18:55, 16 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
OK, thanks. Would there be a problem, then, if I moved the category name back to the title dictated by Lingua Libre? --R'n'B (talk) 13:19, 17 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@R'n'B: I think that would make sense, yes. Lucas Werkmeister (talk) 12:55, 18 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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