File talk:Ryukyuan mission to Japan 1832.jpg
(Redirected from File talk:Procession of Joseon mission.jpg)
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Nanshu added a disputed fact template to this file, with This is not a diplomatic mission from Joseon but from Ryūkyū on Okinawa Island. Nanshu, how do you know that? Please be very, very specific. If the evidence is in the image, point to exactly where it is and what is there. I have looked for the original image and so far have not found it. The page credits the NYPL (New York Public Library?) picture collection, but no source link was given. This may have been photographed from a book, photographer not stated, but perhaps the uploader? Thanks. --Abd (talk) 22:14, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
- If you read Japanese, it's obvious. The boxed label in the upper left, for example, reads 譜久山親雲上 Fukuyama Baikin (Pēchin, a rank. Note that the current English article is hopelessly wrong). If you allow me to do some research, I can easily identify the man. This picture depicts the mission of 1832 [1]. --Nanshu (talk) 16:52, 14 April 2015 (UTC)
- No, I don't read Japanese, but I suspected that this was your way of knowing. Can you transcribe the text as you did with the boxed label? This might be useful anyway. It is very possible that the NY Public Library has the picture mislabeled.
- What you wrote did not explicitly connect with Ryukyu. The ja.wiki article, about Pechin samurai rank.
- I will be able to take this only so far. What I'm looking for is something to show to someone else who knows Japanese well. I'm seeing some similarities between this image and File:Ryukyan_mission_in_Edo.jpg, an earlier mission.
- Ah, I think I might know how to proceed here. Ryulong knows Japanese. If you and he disagree, more research will be needed. But if you agree, this is trivial to resolve, we will request file renaming and that's that. And someone who can edit Wikipedia (Ryulong and I cannot, at this point) will fix misuse there. I will ask. --Abd (talk) 18:34, 14 April 2015 (UTC)
- First of all, Peichin is not a samurai rank. It merely equates to samurai as samurai equates to knight, nothing else. As for the image in question, look at the third section from the top where there are two men holding signs at the head of the procession. The one closest to the left edge of the image holds a sign that says 中山__ The first two characters are Chinese/Japanese for Zhōngshān/Chūzan meaning "Central Mountain", which is another name for Ryukyu. This name comes from a period in Ryukyu's history when the island of Okinawa was split between the three kingdoms of 北山 (Northern Mountain), 中山, and 南山 (Southern Mountain), with the period ending with Chūzan uniting the island. The King of Chūzan was then given the title "King of Ryukyu" by the Emperor of China. Chūzan simply continued to be used as a name for Ryukyu. ミーラー強斗武 (StG88ぬ会話) 22:18, 14 April 2015 (UTC)
- Okay, not samurai. Knights. Scholar-officials? I don't really care. We have a filename error. So what should this file be called, first? Suggestions? Nanshu thinks he might be able to come up with specifics, and mentions the 1832 mission. It would be great if we could get a better source for this. I was unable to find a reference for it at the NYPL, but there is a library stamp on it. (Which might say "N.Y. PUBLIC LIBRARY PICTURE COLLECTION.") Apparently, Joseon, it's not. I'm also letting Ryulong know. I've also emailed the uploader, Tenmei. Whatever we can agree on, will happen. I don't want to see multiple filename changes, let's get it right the first time! --Abd (talk) 01:29, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
- Well looking at File:Ryukyan_mission_in_Edo.jpg (which has a typo btw), you can also see a banner that says 中山王_. The third character means "King", which I guessed the other image said but wasn't going to present it as I wasn't certain because of the writing style. I still can't make out the fourth character due to the writing style and the low resolution of the images. Anyhow, this file could be changed to Ryukyuan mission to Japan 1832.jpg ? ミーラー強斗武 (StG88ぬ会話) 03:41, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
- (talk page stalker)The image seems to be called琉球人行列図.[2] There are many variations.[3]―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 09:45, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
- I don't see the images as the same. It might depict the same event. --Abd (talk) 20:08, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
- Yes, it is the one of the variations.―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 05:51, 18 April 2015 (UTC)
- I don't see the images as the same. It might depict the same event. --Abd (talk) 20:08, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
- (talk page stalker)The image seems to be called琉球人行列図.[2] There are many variations.[3]―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 09:45, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
- Nanshu, it was unnecessary to tag this file as "disputed" when you could have just said "This file is improperly titled and inaccurately portrayed. This is not from the Korean Joseon kingdom but the Ryukyu Chuzan kingdom." and saved us all time and energy.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 04:55, 16 April 2015 (UTC)
- There was nothing wrong with that tag. Pending discussion, it notifies potential users that there may be a problem. No time was wasted because of it. Nanshu, thanks for finding this. We don't yet have an agreed-upon file name. Other suggestions besides Sturmgewehr88's? --Abd (talk) 02:12, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
- It's not "disputed". Something was inaccurate and this needs to be renamed. Just change it to "Chuzan Procession" or something.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 07:08, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
- There was nothing wrong with that tag. Pending discussion, it notifies potential users that there may be a problem. No time was wasted because of it. Nanshu, thanks for finding this. We don't yet have an agreed-upon file name. Other suggestions besides Sturmgewehr88's? --Abd (talk) 02:12, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
- Well looking at File:Ryukyan_mission_in_Edo.jpg (which has a typo btw), you can also see a banner that says 中山王_. The third character means "King", which I guessed the other image said but wasn't going to present it as I wasn't certain because of the writing style. I still can't make out the fourth character due to the writing style and the low resolution of the images. Anyhow, this file could be changed to Ryukyuan mission to Japan 1832.jpg ? ミーラー強斗武 (StG88ぬ会話) 03:41, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
- Okay, not samurai. Knights. Scholar-officials? I don't really care. We have a filename error. So what should this file be called, first? Suggestions? Nanshu thinks he might be able to come up with specifics, and mentions the 1832 mission. It would be great if we could get a better source for this. I was unable to find a reference for it at the NYPL, but there is a library stamp on it. (Which might say "N.Y. PUBLIC LIBRARY PICTURE COLLECTION.") Apparently, Joseon, it's not. I'm also letting Ryulong know. I've also emailed the uploader, Tenmei. Whatever we can agree on, will happen. I don't want to see multiple filename changes, let's get it right the first time! --Abd (talk) 01:29, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
- First of all, Peichin is not a samurai rank. It merely equates to samurai as samurai equates to knight, nothing else. As for the image in question, look at the third section from the top where there are two men holding signs at the head of the procession. The one closest to the left edge of the image holds a sign that says 中山__ The first two characters are Chinese/Japanese for Zhōngshān/Chūzan meaning "Central Mountain", which is another name for Ryukyu. This name comes from a period in Ryukyu's history when the island of Okinawa was split between the three kingdoms of 北山 (Northern Mountain), 中山, and 南山 (Southern Mountain), with the period ending with Chūzan uniting the island. The King of Chūzan was then given the title "King of Ryukyu" by the Emperor of China. Chūzan simply continued to be used as a name for Ryukyu. ミーラー強斗武 (StG88ぬ会話) 22:18, 14 April 2015 (UTC)
- File:Ryukyuan mission to Japan 1832.jpg? Any objections? I would prefer to get a specific verification of the year, or drop that. Nanshu? --Abd (talk) 20:08, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
- @Abd: You know I actually came across something about the 1832 mission (with images) while I was doing some recreational reading, but I forgot where.. Anyhow, there aren't any objections to changing to a more correct name and it's been about a week. I suggest moving it before it gets added to the wrong article again. ミーラー強斗武 (StG88ぬ会話) 03:23, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
Done Factual accuracy template removed because description was already corrected, and rename template added. There will need to be corrections on the wikipedias, and then the original filename, which will become a redirect, may be deleted. The renaming was fast. Edit conflict with this note! --Abd (talk) 20:17, 24 April 2015 (UTC)- And wikipedia removals Done, as well. Thanks, Sturmgewehr, and to all who commented. Well done. --Abd (talk) 20:25, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
- @Abd: You know I actually came across something about the 1832 mission (with images) while I was doing some recreational reading, but I forgot where.. Anyhow, there aren't any objections to changing to a more correct name and it's been about a week. I suggest moving it before it gets added to the wrong article again. ミーラー強斗武 (StG88ぬ会話) 03:23, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
