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Ohio and Wisconsin

Ohio now bans abortion after a feral heartbeat is detected, this law is now confirmed to be in force. It has been confirmed that abortion is now illegal in Wisconsin due to a pre-Roe law. Some may not be updated on certain websites. — Preceding unsigned comment was added by 77.97.123.17 (talk) 06:00, 26 June 2022 (UTC)

Updating Utah

Per https://www.guttmacher.org/state-policy/explore/state-policies-later-abortions, abortions are now illegal in Utah. Can someone update Utah accordingly? I'd do it but I don't have any good way to edit it. Interstatefive (talk) 23:10, 24 June 2022 (UTC)

colors

I changed the colors to be more intuitive. The more restrictive the law, the more red it should be; the more liberal, the more green it should be. So black for illegal and dark red for 6 weeks was fine, but dark-purplish for no limit was misleading. I changed that to bright green. The second-trimester limits (20-26 weeks) occupy a very narrow range (15% the length of a pregnancy), and so IMO should be similar colors; I think a range of blues/purples/azures, close to what most of the states were before the overturning of Roe, is fitting. Currently MS is still orange; at 20 wks it should be purple/violet, but it sounds like the law is going to change soon, so I didn't bother. (Though isn't TN the same? And VA allows 3rd trimester abortion, just more stringent medical requirements.)

How about black for illegal, reds/oranges for 1st trimester limits, purples/blues for 2nd trimester, greens for 3rd trimester, and chartreuse for no limit? We don't match the world map anyway, where black means illegal even for mother's life. Kwamikagami (talk) 20:49, 25 June 2022 (UTC)

The shades of green used are very hard to distinguish. Maybe use a darker shade for "No gestational limit"? Sunkcaves (talk) 21:41, 3 July 2022 (UTC)

That would make them even closer. What would 3rd trimester be? Maybe we could make that bluer? Kwamikagami (talk) 23:18, 3 July 2022 (UTC)

I changed the darker green instead, making it more blue. Does that help? Kwamikagami (talk) 23:26, 3 July 2022 (UTC)

That fixed it, thanks. Sunkcaves (talk) 18:49, 4 July 2022 (UTC)

Guttmacher inaccurate?

According to the Advocate, the laws had yet to go into effect in several of the states that, following Guttmacher, we mark as illegal, specifically Texas (set to go into effect in 30 days; DA's in several counties have said they will not prosecute in the meantime), Utah (not clear when it will go into effect, providers still performing), Alabama (no trigger provision). Do we have any way of verifying who's correct? Kwamikagami (talk) 04:41, 26 June 2022 (UTC)

Ah, Texas: trigger law has not gone into effect, but AG Paxton advised prosecutors that they can bring charges under the pre-Roe law, and he can bring civil charges even if the DA's refuse criminal charges.[1]

Utah's has gone forward.[2] Alabama under a 1951 law.[3]

Massachussets does not use gestational age

MA is 24 weeks from implantation, or 27 weeks gestational age, per Guttmacher (fn beta in our source). Kwamikagami (talk) 05:28, 26 June 2022 (UTC)

Territories

Added territories & commonwealths. According to the Catholic News Agency, PR currently has no age limit,[4] though a bill limiting abortion to 22 weeks passed the senate on Jun 22.[5] In Guam it's apparently legal, though I couldn't find a ref to any gestational limits, but there are no providers on the island, so the legality is moot. Expect restrictions to be passed soon. Apparently illegal in AS and N.Marianas even before Roe was overturned. Legal in USVI to 24 weeks; residents of the BVI travel there for abortions. Kwamikagami (talk) 07:15, 26 June 2022 (UTC)

USVI confirms the law is settled there and abortions will continue.[6] Kwamikagami (talk) 20:50, 26 June 2022 (UTC)

Wisconsin abortions

It is ultimately unclear but quite likely that abortions in that state are illegal. See [7] [8] Szmenderowiecki (talk) 10:39, 26 June 2022 (UTC)

When we make changes to the map that are not supported by the source we list, we should provide our sources here, so that they aren't reverted for FV. Kwamikagami (talk) 20:52, 26 June 2022 (UTC)

Arizona and Virginia

In Arizona the law is currently unclear state has a pre Roe ban on abortion from conception. Clinics no longer operate in the state due to legal uncertainty so until clarification the state should be shaded grey, the shade for No information or legally unclear.

In Virginia, the law does not allow abortions after 25 weeks, according to the New York Times, MSNBC, WUSA9, Washington Post and Va. Governor Glenn Youngkin as well as Virginia’s own certified Wikipedia article. The Guttmatcher Institute says it is until the end of the second trimester (week 26). The point is Virginia definitely doesn’t legalise it until the end of a pregnancy so this should be fixed; I would shade it in a new colour for 25 weeks. 77.97.123.17 15:42, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

That's not what grey means. Grey is 'legal but unavailable'. Do you have a source for AZ? The sources I've found say "most" or "nearly all".

The Guttmatcher Institute says in VA it is until the end of the third trimester: "State requires a second physician to approve an abortion if it will take place after the state’s gestational age limit." They're reading more into legal code §18.2-74 than it states, as the code simply gives different requirements for 1st, 2nd and 3rd trimester. (Or you could argue that there are two GA limits, end of 1st and end of 2nd trimester, but neither is an absolute limit.) So 3rd trimester abortion isn't banned, she just needs to get a second opinion. Presumably they'd want some convincing reason, just as they would in Alaska, but it's still between a woman and her doctors. Kwamikagami (talk) 02:58, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

Well according to Guttmatcher institute abortions in the third trimester are only permitted when the mother’s life or health is at risk, not elective abortion,

https://www.guttmacher.org/fact-sheet/state-facts-about-abortion-virginia. A doctor is required to co-sign that the mother’s life or health is at risk, the whole point, https://dcist.com/story/22/06/28/future-of-abortion-in-virginia-after-roe-dobbs/. I admit it is 27 not 25 weeks, those sources were outdated, but elective abortion throughout the whole pregnancy is not permitted, it is however to the end of the second trimester. Therefore, Virginia should be coloured on the map as it elective abortion is legal until 27 weeks which is roughly the end of the second trimester.

Can you please keep the grey shade as Legal or Legally Unclear but no providers as in some of those states abortion is not necessarily legal or illegal, e.g. unclear enforcement of a pre Roe law. 77.97.123.17 07:19, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

By the way, before the trigger law takes effect on 7 July, abortion is banned in Mississippi at 15 weeks not 20 weeks, the new map you amended changed Mississippi back to 20 weeks 77.97.123.17 07:27, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

The website for the law is incomplete, not only does every single source out there state it isn’t elective. Code of Virginia, https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacodefull/title18.2/chapter4/article9/, § 18.2-74 states in point b that ‘ The physician and two consulting physicians certify and so enter in the hospital record of the woman, that in their medical opinion, based upon their best clinical judgment, the continuation of the pregnancy is likely to result in the death of the woman or substantially and irremediably impair the mental or physical health of the woman,’ therefore it is not elective and is only permitted for serious health issues. Findlaw https://www.findlaw.com/state/virginia-law/virginia-abortion-laws.html verifies this. I think we have now proven more than enough about Virginia so based on the evidence I present here can you please edit Virginia accordingly on the map, Imwould myself however it is difficult to do so. 77.97.123.17 15:38, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

Ah, one provider left in AZ, as of Jun27.[9] Kwamikagami (talk) 05:38, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

Temporary restraining orders in Utah and Louisiana

Enforcement of the trigger law in Utah was temporarily blocked in state district court after Planned Parenthood Association of Utah sued under the state's constitution.[10] I updated the map to reflect the current availability of abortion in Utah. Jade Ten (talk) 00:10, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

Enforcement of the trigger-law ban in Louisiana was temporarily blocked in state court after plaintiffs argued that the ban has conflicting mechanisms and is unclear.[11] --Jade Ten (talk) 00:28, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

update Guttmacher June 27

updated to today, except for Utah per previous thread, and WI VW, per lack of availability. Don't know what Ohio should be; no enforced limit is listed in Guttmacher. Kwamikagami (talk) 03:17, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

Ohio

@Szmenderowiecki: You provided a source for the Ohio heartbeat bill being in effect Jun24. However, as of Jun27, Guttmacher still shows it being blocked, so I changed back to blue. How should we handle this? Kwamikagami (talk) 03:25, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

[resolved below] Kwamikagami (talk) 04:29, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

South Carolina is incorrect

As of 03:44 UTC, 2022-06-28, the image is incorrect for South Carolina. South Carolina's 6-week ban is effective immediately: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/abortion-ban-south-carolina-court-rules-law-can-go-into-effect/ Brom20110101 (talk) 03:45, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

Effective as of today. Updated. Kwamikagami (talk) 03:49, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

Ohio is incorrect

As of 04:04 UTC, on 2022-06-28, the map image file is incorrect for Ohio. Guttmacher states that, as of 2022-06-27, abortion is banned at six weeks of pregnancy in Ohio (see URL here, and scroll down to 'Restrictions on Abortion', the eighth bullet point listed): https://www.guttmacher.org/fact-sheet/state-facts-about-abortion-ohio Brom20110101 (talk) 04:05, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

Thanks. They failed to update their summary chart. Kwamikagami (talk) 04:19, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

Thanks, I see what you mean Brom20110101 (talk) 04:21, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

Yeah, maybe Guttmacher is lagging Brom20110101 (talk) 04:22, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

Also, as of 23:40 UTC on 2022-06-27, The New York Times corroborated Guttmacher on the current implementation of Ohio's six week abortion ban (see URL here, scrolling down to 'Ohio'): https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/us/abortion-laws-roe-v-wade.html Brom20110101 (talk) 04:20, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

I'd already updated, assuming G was lagging, when I saw your source. BTW, it's not really 6 weeks, but when the electrical activity can be detected, which is generally at 5.

Do you know about MS? The state page says 20 weeks, but the summary has two laws in effect, the other at heartbeat. I therefore colored MS dark red, but now wonder if I got it wrong. Kwamikagami (talk) 04:28, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

The New York Times states, as of 23:40 UTC on 2022-06-27, that the current ban is 15 weeks for MS according to: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/us/abortion-laws-roe-v-wade.html . They also state that a complete ban will go into effect on July 7, 2022. Brom20110101 (talk) 04:38, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

That's the only source I could see so far. Searching for a MS-specific source now, just in case Brom20110101 (talk) 04:38, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

That contradicts all three statements by Guttmacher, and I can't access. Kwamikagami (talk) 04:40, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

I'm reading Guttmacher here: https://www.guttmacher.org/fact-sheet/state-facts-about-abortion-mississippi . Yes, you're correct, I see what you mean Brom20110101 (talk) 04:44, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

On the summary sheet, G. says that the 15-wk ban is currently blocked, but that the heartbeat law is active. But as with Ohio, perhaps MS is out of date. Kwamikagami (talk) 05:04, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

Also, the last provider in MS has 10 days to close. Kwamikagami (talk) 05:44, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

As for VA, they're saying after 25 weeks is only for emergencies (life etc.). But I've seen the law, and that's not what it says. Also, in the summary, G says 3rd trimester, not 25 weeks, and explains that abortions in the 3rd trimester require a 2nd doctor's approval. That's not the same as a ban with exceptions for medical emergencies! There are greater restrictions after each trimester. Kwamikagami (talk) 05:07, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

Wisconsin is incorrect

As of 06:51 UTC, on 2022-06-28, the map image file is incorrect for Wisconsin. Clinics in WI closed due to a pre-1973 (i.e., a pre-Roe) abortion law taking effect, not because providers do not exist. That old law remains in effect now, and looking at the WI state website supports this fact. There are news sources that support it as well. Brom20110101 (talk) 06:51, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

Please provide some. Guttmacher disagrees. Kwamikagami (talk) 20:26, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

That makes sense. I was reading an incorrect source when I made this topic at 06:51 UTC, 2022-06-28. Brom20110101 (talk) 04:02, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

Another source to citate the fact WI abortions are illegal due to law. https://www.nationalreview.com/2022/07/wisconsin-democrats-abandon-the-rule-of-law-to-protect-abortion/ 77.97.123.17 17:22, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Texas!

Texas is like Tennessee, trigger ban only happens after 30 days---in late July 2022---map needs to change! 209.177.158.170 16:51, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

Yup, updated per correction at Guttmacher. Kwamikagami (talk) 20:26, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

Mississippi 15

I don’t know how to edit the image, but when MS was intended to be reverted to 15 weeks the wrong color orange was selected, so it shows as 20 weeks. SilverLocust (talk) 03:40, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

Our source says 20 wks. Kwamikagami (talk) 17:41, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

There are many sources and different people use different sources, just because you think VA is until the end doesn’t mean it is and the consensus is to get VA to 2nd trimester. It is obvious MS is 15 as the whole Dobbs case was allowing MS enforce a 15 week ban. Can you edit MS, UT and VA per my suggestions. 77.97.123.17 17:43, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

No. You need sources that support your claims. "Obvious" (to you) is not a RS. As for VA, Guttmacher says there's a 3rd-trimester limit, but then explains that the limit is not a ban. Our map is for bans. Similarly, for MA they say that the limit is 24 weeks, but then explain that by 24 they mean 27. So you need to read the details. Kwamikagami (talk) 17:44, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

Unlike the trigger law, it does not need certification so under the ruling it immediately goes into effect, as do other contested laws upon SCOTUS. It will be black soon anyway… I have found plenty of sources to back my claims on Va. in my Va. comment so can they be reviewed to back my claims for need of Va. colour change.

On the map for the front page, the colour code needs updating. 77.97.123.17 18:23, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

You still need a source. If it were as straightforward as you claim, I would expect Guttmacher to reflect that by now.

I changed VA to 'need 2nd opinion for 3rd trimester' without giving a specific date. Kwamikagami (talk) 20:18, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

The problem is that you can’t just rely on one source. There is now plenty of evidence and consensus that it is not elective after the second trimester, a second doctor is required to approve an exemption. The problem with the green border is that it is not clearly visible and seems that it creates an impression that they are elective after that states but it is not and that is the point I am trying to get across; a second doctor is required to approve a case with an Exemption like life or rape or health, etc. 77.97.123.17 06:17, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

[this was settled below; no more green borders] Kwamikagami (talk) 23:25, 3 July 2022 (UTC)

Utah and Mississippi

For Utah, a new state law has gone into effect banning abortions after 18 weeks, following pro-choice groups dismissing their legal objections over HB136 passed in 2019, hence it is now law. https://www.fox13now.com/news/local-news/while-utahs-abortion-ban-is-on-hold-a-new-law-takes-effect

For Mississippi, abortion is illegal after 15 not 20 weeks of gestation. https://www.mississippifreepress.org/25000/supreme-court-strikes-down-roe-v-wade-in-mississippi-abortion-ban-case Many websites are yet to be updated where it still says 20 77.97.123.17 15:53, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

For MS, it says the 15-wk ban can now go into effect, not that it is in effect. I'm checking further on UT -- that's probably a change we need to make, but need an actual news source. Kwamikagami (talk) 17:43, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

Okay, confirmed UT, but can't find anything on MS apart from the last clinic leaving town in 10 days. MS will be black at that point anyway. Kwamikagami (talk) 17:56, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

Per this, the MS law is also blocked by the MS supreme court under the MS constitution, so that might need to play out as well. Kwamikagami (talk) 21:49, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

States with temporary blocks from courts

I was wondering if adding a note where judges have temporarily blocked the laws from going into effect be worth adding in the legend? Callmemirela (talk) 21:30, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

I was thinking a black or red dot on the map, but that would require a fair amt of coding (since the doc is text only), but adding them to the legend would be a decent compromise IMO. Kwamikagami (talk) 21:48, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

Anything to make it more specific and clear for states that do have bans but are not legally enforced due to a block. For example, Utah and Louisiana, while yes they can perform abortions, it's due to an order signed by a judge for 2 weeks. Callmemirela (talk) 22:05, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

I gave those states red borders. Does that work? I think I got them all. Kwamikagami (talk) 08:59, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

Yeah, it's fine. Thank you! Callmemirela (talk) 14:34, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

The borders for heartbeat bans have now been added (although Utah’s border is a bit funky. I suggest also adding a black border for the same purpose however e.g. Utah or Louisiana where there a are both the border should be the more restrictive blocked ban. 77.97.123.17 18:22, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

Ah, I need to move Utah down in the coding.

Do you have a ref for the states with blocked total bans? Kwamikagami (talk) 18:24, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

Reference: https://www.npr.org/2022/06/27/1108071679/abortion-state-courts-louisiana-utah 77.97.123.17 19:44, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

@Kwamikagami Kentucky is now part of the list as well. I have no idea how to edit the file. Thank you! Callmemirela (talk) 21:28, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

Thanks. Will correct in a few minutes. Please check I got them right. Kwamikagami (talk) 22:00, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

There seems to be black and red borders now. Callmemirela (talk) 22:21, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

I meant, please verify that I marked all of them. Kwamikagami (talk) 22:43, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

States which require a 2nd doctor

I outlined in green those states that may allow abortion throughout pregnancy but require a 2nd doctor. Guttmacher has footnotes for some states that state,

State requires a second physician to attend / approve an abortion if it will take place after the state’s gestational age limit.

Now, on at least some of the state pages, they say that's only if the woman's life is in danger etc. (Which is dubious, because if a woman is dying, you may not have time to consult with another doctor.) But in the case of VA, the law just says that a 2nd doctor's approval is necessary, but no instruction for what a doctor may or may not approve. That is, it's between a woman and her (two) doctors.

So, can we tell which states allow abortion throughout, like VA, and when this is just a 2nd opinion for a medical exception? Kwamikagami (talk) 00:02, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

I think the outline concept is a good idea. I also think its current green color is hard to see with some of the blue and green state colors. Do other people have that sense (really could just be me)? Would it be possible to modify the color of the outlined states to help with this conflict, or to add a signifying symbol on each relevant state instead (like a little star within the state borders)? 🤔 Brom20110101 (talk) 03:50, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

Yes, it is difficult to see, which is why I think striping would be better. Adding a symbol isn't straightforward because this is a text-friendly document. Adding them with Inkscape would be trivial, but then the doc would no longer be editable as text. Maybe we should just give up on it being text-editable?

But before doing that, I seriously doubt that abortion is legal in the 3rd trimester in Mississippi. So we need some clarity. Kwamikagami (talk) 08:25, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

As I explained to you in VA a second doctor cannot just allow it for the sake of it it is only if the woman’s life or health is at risk, as I explained in the Arizona/Virginia comment. 77.97.123.17 06:13, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

"Explaining" is meaningless. You need references. I've asked for references to clarify the situation. Are you going to help out, or just grumble about things you can't be bothered to improve? Kwamikagami (talk) 08:23, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

Okay, i found it:[12] Indeed, that is a ban except in case of life or health. I don't know if I misread that or found some wrong info. There's also an exemption from doctor's consultations in case of medical emergency. I'll remove the green borders. Kwamikagami (talk) 08:44, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

Thanks. The only thing is that for the key on the main page is that the colour for the third trimester and unlimited is very similar and hard to distinguish especially for those with viewing difficulties. I would suggest a more distinguishable green where one is more clearly darker than the other; perhaps a dark green for fully legal and a lighter green for legal until the third trimester. The only thing is that week 29 is not considered to be the third trimester much of the debate whether it is 27 weeks or 28 weeks. Now that is difficult given Ma. is officially at 27 weeks so should they be combined or kept separate; the colours at least should be very similar. Only one source Tommys considers it at 29 weeks. https://www.mamanatural.com/when-does-third-trimester-start/ https://kidshealth.org/en/parents/pregnancy-calendar-intro.html. On the front page, it should at least have brackets to specify what the third trimester is. 77.97.123.17 15:34, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

Yeah, I can make them darker green.

MA is officially at 24 weeks. It may be that MA counts pregnancy as the 36 weeks of actual pregnancy, divided into 3 trimesters of 12 weeks, but I'm just guessing.

Unless you have a ref as to what VA considers 3rd trimester, we can't pick and choose between sources. There's also the problem of whether these are the last weeks of legality or the first weeks of the bans. We really should word it "illegal from", but I hesitate to change the wording in the WP's until I'm sure I understand when the bans commence. Kwamikagami (talk) 18:28, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

I agree that for Va. we should just leave it in the vague third trimester however it must be specified on the main page of the article that that is the 27th or 28th week currently it is not specified. Ma. Is a bit misleading and it caught me out as you can’t measure all the weeks in one way but leave one key being measured in another way with a vague note that wasn’t very helpful. I have no idea why Guttmatcher is using different language for Ma. as if you go on the Mass.gov website and laws about abortion, link/source: https://www.mass.gov/info-details/massachusetts-law-about-abortion#massachusetts-regulations- and go to Massachusetts law and Executive Orders then to Primary laws you will see that Massachusetts law refers to the weeks in a normal system where it speaks about the 24 not 27 weeks, and it says that before is legal and after 24 weeks is illegal. As actual official government sourced law should be the number 1 source, I think Ma. should be shaded the lighter skyline blue which is indeed used for 24 weeks. Massachusetts’ current turquoise colour should be used for Illegal in the Third Trimester and a green used for legal throughout the entire pregnancy. 77.97.123.17 19:41, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

It is the no. 1 source. That's what G uses. But on WP we use 2ary sources.

MA's 24 weeks is our 27 weeks. We can't use different measures for different states. The title of our map is "by fetal gestational age", so we need to count by fetal gestational age. Kwamikagami (talk) 22:42, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

Guttmacher update today doesn't include any updates

Guttmacher updated to Jun30, but still has 'viability' for Utah and Tennessee, and 22 weeks for KY, SC and WI. We seem to have good refs that those dates are incorrect. There are also no pending total bans listed. Do we need to abandon Guttmacher as our primary ref? Kwamikagami (talk) 18:45, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

Maybe, it's worth considering. Guttmacher is not keeping up fast enough, despite many other good references differing. 209.177.158.170 20:15, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

I think we should. 77.97.123.17 05:37, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

Black Borders?

Current time is 22:23 UTC, 2022-06-30. I see black outlines around some states and no explanation in the legend. What do the black outlines signify? Brom20110101 (talk) 22:24, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

Blocked total abortion bans 77.97.123.17 05:37, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

Massachusetts and Wisconsin

For Ma., I have no idea why Guttmatcher is using different language for Ma. as if you go on the Mass.gov website and laws about abortion, link/source: https://www.mass.gov/info-details/massachusetts-law-about-abortion#massachusetts-regulations- and go to Massachusetts law and Executive Orders then to Primary laws you will see that Massachusetts law refers to the weeks in a normal system where it speaks about the 24 not 27 weeks, and it says that before is legal and after 24 weeks is illegal. As actual official government sourced law should be the number 1 source, I think Ma. should be shaded the lighter skyline blue e.g. Pa. Uses that colour which is indeed used for 24 weeks. Massachusetts’ current turquoise colour should be used for Illegal in the Third Trimester and a green used for legal throughout the entire pregnancy.

For WI, I don’t know why it was reverted to grey giving sources proving it is illegal. 77.97.123.17 06:59, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

Yeah, it seems there is a lot of conflicting/outdated information, making it hard to keep up. I'm under the impression that Wisconsin, West Virginia, and Guam should be marked as illegal. Florida also needs a colored border after its law was halted today. TNstingray (talk) 18:53, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

FL doesn’t have a colour as a 15 week border isn’t on the key. 77.97.123.17 20:13, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

Switched FL to orange border.

If anyone has sources proving WI or WV are illegal, please provide. Saying you saw s.t. somewhere doesn't help.

What makes you think Guam is illegal? Kwamikagami (talk) 23:26, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

Proposed Color Scheme Change

I would like to propose a change to the color scheme of the map. A logical possibility is to match levels of legality with the spectral colors, whereby the longest wavelengths match the most illegal states (e.g., red color for a 6-week ban) and the shortest wavelengths match the most legal states (e.g., violet color for no limits). See here for a brief overview of spectral colors: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectral_color .

Ignoring black and gray colors (i.e., keeping them as they are), the current color progression (as of 18:48 UTC, 2022-07-01) from red to green has some logical spectral correspondence; but it is incomplete. Ideally, we would have (in this order) Red-Orange-Yellow-Green-Cyan-Blue-Violet. However, the current progression is Red-Orange-Violet-Blue-Cyan-Green with no Yellow, and with some shade variation for some of the colors. I recommend we modify in accordance with the spectral scheme mentioned above. Two possible benefits of this change could be (1) a logical color basis and (2) improved efficiency for readers when assessing the map. Brom20110101 (talk) 18:53, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

The only problem is that as green is typically implied for most legal it may cause confusion with the violet. 77.97.123.17 20:12, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

I am not understanding the concern about green's association with legality. Is that something implicitly known, and do you have examples? One possible alternative then, if your concern is justified, could be from current <Red-Orange-Violet-Blue-Cyan-Green with no Yellow> to <Red-Orange-Yellow-Cyan-Blue-Green with no Violet>. That update leaves out Violet, which is at the extreme end of the spectral colors, and provides improved spectral progression while retaining Green as an endpoint, assuming Green truly is associated with legality.

Also, in case someone with the ability to change the map is reading this comment, there's another topic below about West Virginia that should take precedence over this color scheme change idea (for now) as of 21:31 UTC, 2022-07-01. Brom20110101 (talk) 21:32, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

The Roe 2nd-trimester norms are bundled tightly together in time (22-23-24 weeks), so it's intuitive to give them similar cool colors. Really, it's only the oranges that stick out: red-purple-violet-blue-green is a natural color progression, but the shorter ones won't be on the map long, as those states are heading toward either a total ban or a ban from the time you miss your period.

With the current scheme, we have dark (black or dark red) for extreme bans, oranges for stricter than Roe but still within the norm for Europe, purple-blue for Roe norms, and greens for more generous. Should we maybe change to purples for stricter than Roe (15-20 weeks), blues for the Roe norms still in effect across much of the country (22-26 weeks), and greens for more generous than Roe required? Kwamikagami (talk) 22:40, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

I tried a new color scheme. See the file history. IMO the colors are too close together for the map to be very legible. I suppose we could shift the 22-wk purple to a shorter period, and create a new blue, but then the blues are too close together. These orange states won't have those colors for long, though, so in the long term I think our current scheme is acceptable. Kwamikagami (talk) 23:08, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for testing out a new color scheme. I agree, the new one tested out did not seem to be as good as the old one. Would it be possible to test out two new versions that include Yellow (shown below). Specifically, Test Version A (TV-A):

////////////////////////////////////

Dark Red: Illegal after embryonic cardiac activity is detected

Light Red: Illegal after 15 weeks

Dark Orange: Illegal after 18 weeks

Light Orange: Illegal after 20 weeks

Yellow: Illegal after 22 weeks (5 months)

Cyan: Illegal from fetal viability (≈ 23 weeks)

Dark Blue: Illegal after 24 weeks (5½ months)

Light Blue: Illegal after 27 weeks (24 weeks from implantation)

Dark Green: Illegal in the third trimester (after 27th or 28th week)

Light Green: No gestational limit

////////////////////////////////////

And Test Version B (TV-B):

////////////////////////////////////

Dark Red: Illegal after embryonic cardiac activity is detected

Light Red: Illegal after 15 weeks

Dark Orange: Illegal after 18 weeks

Light Orange: Illegal after 20 weeks

Yellow: Illegal after 22 weeks (5 months)

Green: Illegal from fetal viability (≈ 23 weeks)

Dark Cyan: Illegal after 24 weeks (5½ months)

Light Cyan: Illegal after 27 weeks (24 weeks from implantation)

Dark Blue: Illegal in the third trimester (after 27th or 28th week)

Light Blue: No gestational limit

////////////////////////////////////

I would be interested in seeing how they look if possible. Brom20110101 (talk) 00:07, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

Per other commenter above, I think green is better for 'legal'. The main map also uses blues for 2nd-trimester limits (the world norm), so there's some reason to stick to that here. And the US mid-2nd trimester bans, which are so close together in time (spanning just 15% of a pregnancy) should IMO be similarly close in color. Yellow-green-blue for a difference of just 2 weeks (5% of a pregnancy) doesn't capture that. Kwamikagami (talk) 00:34, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

Those are good points about the 2-week difference and about the main map using blues for the 2nd trimester. I still would like to see TV-A (see above) if possible. Brom20110101 (talk) 01:29, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

I don't know what colors you want (e.g. dark light blue vs light light blue vs dark blue vs light blue), but I don't see the point of making an uploading a map if ppl are opposed to the color scheme. Kwamikagami (talk) 01:35, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

We could conflate VA and MA, as they're both 3rd trimester bans, and explain them in the key. That would make the map a bit more legible. Kwamikagami (talk) 01:39, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

Yeah, that's fair. I'll test it out in my own time and see. I like what you did with the VA and MA conflation.

Also, I wish more people were available to step in and contribute to help us. Where is Planet Earth? Brom20110101 (talk) 02:12, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

I uploaded another attempt and rv'd myself, so it's in the page history. Deep, mid and light blue for 22, 23, 24 weeks (the Roe norm); violet for 20 weeks (MS), purple for 18 weeks (UT) and magenta for 15 weeks (what it would look like if the FL law goes through). To me, it's pretty legible and gets rid of all the oranges.

I'd rather save 'danger' colors (yellow, orange, red) for extreme bans. 15 weeks may seem extreme, after 50 years of Roe, but by international standards it's not that stringent. So IMO magenta (a hint of danger) is appropriate. And 20 weeks in MS is right in the middle of the 2nd trimester, past probably 99% of abortions, so IMO shouldn't get an extreme color. (Of course, MS and UT are not likely to remain there for long.) Kwamikagami (talk) 02:18, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

Interesting to see what happens to the religious liberty challenge to the FL law. Maybe we can let everyone follow their faith: if you're Catholic, it's illegal to use contraception (2-5 years prison), if you're Baptist it's illegal to use emergency contraception, if you're a Jew you can have an abortion in the 1st trimester, and if you're a Hindu you can in the 2nd. So if you need an abortion in the 2nd trimester, just have a crisis of faith and convert to Hinduism. Kwamikagami (talk) 02:34, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

Uploaded test map for the spectral color scheme for the record. I like both of the color schemes myself, after you explained your ideas above, and would be ok with either one. Reverted back for now Brom20110101 (talk) 02:39, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

Yeah, I hear you: weird religion-specific qualifications to match the absurdities of these laws Brom20110101 (talk) 02:40, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

Gave it some more thought: the blues and greens do go better with greater legality, I see what you are saying. Reminds me of the blue ocean and green forest: soothing Brom20110101 (talk) 02:48, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

Okay, restored, but changed FL to pending. Kwamikagami (talk) 03:22, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

I like what you did at 03:21, 2 July 2022. The colors look better Brom20110101 (talk) 03:53, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

You mean the latest version? Your date/time stamp doesn't match mine, but that's the one where the minutes match. Kwamikagami (talk) 03:58, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

Reading the MA summaries on the state website (not the actual laws):

Abortion per license if, in their best medical judgment, the pregnancy has existed for less than 24 weeks.

If a pregnancy has existed for 24 weeks or more, no abortion may be performed except ... (medical exceptions)

“Pregnancy”, the presence of an implanted human embryo or fetus in the uterus. Kwamikagami (talk) 23:35, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

The whole 27 week thing should be scrapped as it is not how Ma. measures it based on the laws on the Ma.gov website, just becomes Guttmatcher says it doesn’t mean it is correct. Secondly, it is simply incorrect to combine Ma. And Va. as week 24 is the second trimester, Guttmatcher measures those weeks in menstrual periods, a completely different way. Ma. Should be sky blue for 24 weeks and the new third trimester should be turquoise. I see the new colour scheme however my only issue with it is that it transitions from red to purple to quickly including an orange and yellow should be better…

For WV I explained what illegal means.

For WI, Governor Tony Evers confirmed that the law makes abortions currently illegal (and vowed to grant clemencies to counteract it), Democratic Attorneys vowing to not enforce it despite it being law and Democratic attorneys trying to block it. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/wisconsin-gov-vows-grant-clemency-doctors-charged-state-abortion-ban-rcna35479.

Lastly, the grey definition ought to be changed from Legal to Legal or Lefal Unclear as some grey states not necessarily have legal abortion. 77.97.123.17 07:05, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

Guttmacher does have it correct, according to the state of Massachusetts. I quoted the state summary above that shows that they're correct. (Pregnancy is 36 weeks, 24 weeks is the end of the 2nd trimester.) If you think they're wrong, you need to say why, and need a RS to contradict them.

Vowing to grant clemency *if* ppl are charged is not the same as ppl being charged. Plus that's an old report and things could've changed by now. We'd at least expect Guttmacher to have updated by now even if they were slow about it. Kwamikagami (talk) 20:26, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

As I said Guttmatcher is unreliable and it sometimes takes them months to update. Similar to WV, Illegal means that there is a law in place that is in effect and can be implemented not that it is. Abortion clinics have moved out anyway so nothing to penalise for. Why is it meant to change, there hasn’t been any news of change. And grey should also include legally unclear. For MA, it has been updated on Guttmatcher correctly, last time it used the weird system however currently the map simply is wrong; 24 weeks is not the third trimester and MA should be shaded in the 24 week ban colour. Can the slightly darker green be replaced for turquoise? I already suggested this. 77.97.123.17 05:58, 3 July 2022 (UTC)

So, do you have a source to replace Guttmacher? "Sometimes takes them months", but since the overturning of Roe it's been days.

24/27 weeks is a typical mark for the end of the 2nd trimester, at least according to our sourced articles on the subject. A "trimester" is really a third of a full-term pregnancy, which is 36 weeks, so yeah, 24 weeks is two trimesters. I don't understand how it could be that Guttmacher is right, and the map follows Guttmacher, but the map is wrong. Kwamikagami (talk) 20:22, 3 July 2022 (UTC)

The first time I ever heard the third trimester starting at 24 weeks; no source says that. Don’t even know where to start with sources as no website says that 24 weeks is the third trimester so check it out! The Ma.gov website refers to pregnancy start not implantation start so it is not 27 gestational age, it is 24 as pregnancy start is gestation synonym. Guttmatcher is wrong (I correct myself) when it refers to implantation nit GA and Ma. law is my source. As such Ma. should be shaded in as sky blue for the 24 week limit same as Pa. for example. https://www.mass.gov/info-details/massachusetts-law-about-abortion#massachusetts-regulations- The green colour shading change has been implemented and it is much better. La. needs a black border as its abortion ban block is more stringent than the 6 week ban block. Can I hear your thoughts on why slightly tweaking the grey definition to say Legal or Legally Unclear is not implemented since it is more reflective as in all 3 states it is indeed legally unclear. 77.97.123.17 19:23, 4 July 2022 (UTC)

You're not reading the sources. I quoted the MA site above. It clearly states what Guttmacher says it does. So we have both a 1ary and 2ary source for MA. If you want to claim that's wrong, you need a RS to the contrary. You've not provided any evidence for your claims.

You need to provide a more precise link than the main page, or at least say/quote what you're referring to. I don't know what you're looking at.

You need a source for LA.

Tweak how? Kwamikagami (talk) 00:26, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

c.112 § 12N ‘If a pregnancy has existed for 24 weeks or more, no abortion may be performed’ is the same as 24 weeks of gestational age not after implantation. Ma.law does not refer to a different way of measurement.

For Louisiana https://www.axios.com/2022/06/27/abortion-louisiana-trigger-law-lawsuit-roe

Can you comment on why you want change the gray definition. 77.97.123.17 16:51, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

As for the states shaded in gray the legal situation is not firmly legal or illegal with different opinion, the laws there are unclear. However in some they may be legal hence I proposed a Legal or Legally Unclear definition. In WV and WI it is at best unclear but in AZ it is legal until the injunction is lifted. 77.97.123.17 17:10, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

I think the colour scheme should be amended. I think that the pink colours slash purple 15 and 18 week ban should be changed. The 6 should be a slightly darker red as previously. The 15 should be a light light red or a dark orange. The 18 should be a yellow orange type colour. 77.97.123.17 17:12, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

This is because pink and purple isn’t reflective of that type of ban although it may be the next on a colour wheel. 77.97.123.17 17:14, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

Okay, nothing new re. MA. You can't even be bothered to read even the quoted material above.

LA: that's old news, contradicted by a more recent source, but I agree it's concerning. Will bring up below.

The color scheme was discussed and this was the concensus. Personally, I think it's unintuitive to use orange and red (danger colors) for 2nd-trimester limits that would be blue on the world map, and which aren't out of line with limits in Europe.

What is the darker red color it was before? Please give the actual color. Kwamikagami (talk) 20:13, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

I am confused about Ma., what do you mean? Just weird to see the pinks for the 15 18 week bans based on previous maps. La. nothing new happened since the source. 77.97.123.17 05:20, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

The Montana and North Carolina borders aren’t clear. 77.97.123.17 05:21, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

Ah, I didn't notice that went through. I tried them out, but they made the map even more cluttered, and I didn't think it was worth it for what's just a few weeks' difference. Do you think we should make the borders more clear, or just remove them?

For MA, I mean that they are apparently the only state that defines their abortion limits on length of the pregnancy rather than on time since onset of the last menses, as I quoted above. That's a difference of 3 weeks on average. So a pregnancy that's at 24 weeks under MA law would be at approx. 27 weeks under any other state's law. This map is based on time since last menses (it's even in the title), so the MA limit doesn't correspond directly to the measure we use. Kwamikagami (talk) 22:11, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

I now realised my mistake. Very sorry!!! 77.97.123.17 17:20, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

West Virginia

Abortion in WV has confirmed to be illegal: https://www.theintelligencer.net/news/top-headlines/2022/06/morrisey-1800s-abortion-ban-in-west-virginia-is-enforceable/ 77.97.123.17 20:14, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

That's an advisory opinion. We'd want a ref that it's actually being enforced. They're talking about getting the leg in session to decide this, which means it's not yet decided. Kwamikagami (talk) 22:36, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

That is not the definition of illegal. Illegal means that there is a law in place that is in effect and can be implemented; which it can as said by the AG. He is talking about updating the bills sections however it does mean this is the

law of the land in WV and enforceable hence it should be black. 77.97.123.17 06:48, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

Guttmacher still shows it as legal. Let's see what they do in today's update. Kwamikagami (talk) 19:48, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

Guttmatcher is unreliable. 77.97.123.17 21:47, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

Perhaps, but it's our main source. Meanwhile, you need to provide s.t. that is more reliable. Newspapers are notoriously unreliable. Kwamikagami (talk) 22:47, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

I think Guttmatcher shouldn’t be the primary source anymore. But here

https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/west-virginia-providers-and-advocates-file-lawsuit-stop-cruel-19th-century-law 77.97.123.17 05:51, 3 July 2022 (UTC)

Okay, so it's at best uncertain.

Do you have a source to replace Guttmacher? Kwamikagami (talk) 20:18, 3 July 2022 (UTC)

I personally think that there should be no primary source as relying on one source increases likelihood of error as well as a slower update speed. 77.97.123.17 19:15, 4 July 2022 (UTC)

Not having a primary source means having different criteria for different states, or missing some states entirely, and the likelihood of using sources (such as newspapers) whose authors don't know the subject, all of which increase the likelihood of error. Kwamikagami (talk) 00:24, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

https://wvmetronews.com/2022/07/05/women-seeking-abortions-could-face-felonies-under-west-virginias-revived-law/ Most newspapers (unlike tabloids) are accurate, they don’t make stuff up. 77.97.123.17 16:45, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

I don't mean intentional bullshit. I mean failure to understand the situation. That's extremely common. Especially in small papers, but even the NYTimes isn't very reliable. By not having a single, experienced source to evaluate the various laws and reports, we're going to have uneven reliability. Doesn't need to be Guttmacher, but should be some RS. Kwamikagami (talk) 20:04, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

Yes. We should keep Guttmatcher for now until we find a better replacement. 77.97.123.17 05:17, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

I agree that keeping Guttmacher as a primary source is reasonable. We should also continue to incorporate other sources to supplement Guttmacher, as we have been doing Brom20110101 (talk) 18:21, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Texas Abortions Illegal Again

The TX Supreme Court blocked the lower court order allowing abortions ruling that the pre Roe TX Abortion ban can go back in force. https://www.npr.org/2022/07/02/1109550084/the-texas-supreme-court-has-blocked-an-order-that-resumed-abortions-in-the-state?t=1656779245934 77.97.123.17 16:29, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

thanks for sharing, checking it now Brom20110101 (talk) 18:49, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

It looks like there is no criminal enforcement as of 18:57 UTC, 2022-07-02, only civil enforcement; and your source is also supported by the source here (for the record): https://www.texastribune.org/2022/07/02/texas-abortion-1925-ban-supreme-court/ . It's not clear to me whether it's worth switching Texas to fully illegal yet. What do you think? And what do others think? Brom20110101 (talk) 18:58, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

TX and FL both. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to get striping to work on this map. TX at least deserves a black border. I'll do that for now. Kwamikagami (talk) 19:44, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

Ah, I got the striping to work. This won't be legible on small states, but should be fine for the larger states that have bans. Kwamikagami (talk) 20:12, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

I see it, makes sense, and it looks visible Brom20110101 (talk) 20:16, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

Florida

Abortion is currently banned in Florida after 15 weeks because of an appeal by the state: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/article263175723.html https://www.wtsp.com/article/news/regional/florida/judge-blocks-florida-15-week-abortion-ban/67-2c48ac65-297f-45cf-b0d0-33c30c6cd25b 77.97.123.17 17:03, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

Thanks. Guttmacher supports that as well. Kwamikagami (talk) 20:06, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

Louisiana

Against Guttmacher, who as of Jul02 list LA as having a blocked 6-week ban, this source from Jun27 states it's a full ban. Could be they're talking about two different bans, or might be that one is mistaken. Should LA have a black border instead of red? Kwamikagami (talk) 20:25, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

For La. https://www.wwno.org/2022-07-05/louisiana-ag-asks-state-supreme-court-to-reinstate-abortion-ban-before-july-8-hearing

Addittionally Montanas and NCs borders are unclear and not bold and the gray definition should be expanded although nobody is giving insight on that idea… 77.97.123.17 06:27, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

So, what is the limit in the strictest blocked law in LA? I hear a lot of "nearly all", but can't tell if the reporter even knows what that means, or if we just have people parroting other people. Kwamikagami (talk) 06:44, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

See here for Louisiana:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/ap-louisiana-texas-new-orleans-mississippi-b2118283.html

Today is 2022-07-07 and the ban is blocked in Louisiana, so abortion is still legal today. 77.97.123.17 is incorrect (in the topic down below) about changing LA for 2022-07-07. However, 77.97.123.17 makes a good point, and we will likely need to change LA to black tomorrow on 2022-07-08. Brom20110101 (talk) 18:02, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

I meant whether the border should be red or black. Kwamikagami (talk) 19:22, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

That makes sense. I was responding primarily to the statement and source shared by 77.97.123.17.

Note: we might need to find a confirming source and change LA to black tomorrow (2022-07-08). It's also possible the block could be extended, whereby the LA Supreme Court would deliberate soon (how soon, not sure). Brom20110101 (talk) 20:45, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

And I also think the border should be changed to black, since the full ban has been blocked for now Brom20110101 (talk) 20:55, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

Ok, I have changed the LA border from red to black Brom20110101 (talk) 14:50, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Following court proceedings for Louisiana today:

https://www.nola.com/news/politics/article_6b7d8aee-fec9-11ec-948a-3f5fe5d2eed7.html

As of 16:57 UTC on 2022-07-08, it is uncertain whether the ban will take effect today or not. Need to keep watching this to see Brom20110101 (talk) 16:58, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

A second source:

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/louisiana-abortion-ban-allowed-proceed-judge-lifts-stay-86470532 Brom20110101 (talk) 18:13, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Mississippi

Mississippi will ban all abortion on 2022-07-07, likely at either (a) 05:00 UTC on 2022-07-07 or (b) 17:00 UTC on 2022-07-07, either at midnight or at noon that day in local time (not sure the exact time, could be another hour). Only exceptions will be in the case of rape or to save the life of the pregnant person. Here's a source stating these things: https://mississippitoday.org/2022/07/06/protesters-supporters-look-to-the-future-on-the-last-day-of-legal-abortion-in-mississippi/ . CNN also confirms this ban: https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/06/politics/state-abortion-laws-legal-challenges/index.html

Sometime between 05:00 UTC on 2022-07-07 and 05:00 UTC on 2022-07-08, we need to: (1) find a reliable source confirming that the ban has taken effect and (2) change the color for Mississippi to black after a source has been identified. Brom20110101 (talk) 04:20, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

Thanks! Kwamikagami (talk) 06:19, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

There is no reason for it to not have taken effect it is the law that starting today it is illegal and is clear.

Confirmation source https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/07/06/missisppi-abortion-clinic-closure/

Can you also correct the Mt. and Nc. borders as they aren’t bold. Change La. To black based on my source and expand the definition of gray or at least reply why you are reluctant to change it. Mississippi should be shaded black. 77.97.123.17 06:32, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

Agreed about MS, and just did that. Last clinic is closed, and we can always change if there's another injunction.

I also added a black border to MI per CNN.

I removed the MT and NC borders altogether per above. They clutter the map for relatively little gain IMO. Anyone else think that they should be included? (We're talking blocked 20-week limits in states that have ~23-week limits.)

For the grey, as I said before, you need to explain what you mean. What do you think the wording should be? Kwamikagami (talk) 06:38, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/ap-louisiana-texas-new-orleans-mississippi-b2118283.html

See the above for Louisiana (will repost this in the thread above as well). Today is 2022-07-07 and the ban is blocked in Louisiana, so abortion is still legal today. 77.97.123.17 is incorrect about changing LA for 2022-07-07. However, 77.97.123.17 makes a good point, and we will likely need to change LA to black tomorrow on 2022-07-08. Brom20110101 (talk) 18:00, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

No La. shouldn’t be black, it should have a black border. 77.97.123.17 05:26, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Thanks, LA is not black yet. It does now have a black border Brom20110101 (talk) 15:36, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

KY and TN

Guttmacher Jun07 says TN is blocked (so thru viability) but that KY is not (so black). Out of date, or have we missed s.t.? KY block was still in place yesterday: [13] Not sure about TN; it went into effect 9 days ago, which is an awfully long lag for Guttmacher. Kwamikagami (talk) 19:30, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

For Kentucky, consider this source:

https://www.dispatch.com/story/news/local/2022/07/06/abortion-kentucky-remains-legal-while-lawsuit-challenges-continues/7811183001/

It looks like a court hearing yesterday (2022-07-06) resulted in a continuation of the current block (i.e., abortion remains legal as of 2022-07-07), pending a decision within the next week or two. Brom20110101 (talk) 20:43, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

Heartbeat or six weeks?

Not clear on the laws here. Are they from actual detection of the electrical signals (5-6 weeks GA), or defined as 6 weeks GA and just called 'heartbeat' as a rationale? Or does that vary by state? Kwamikagami (talk) 20:16, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

Not clear, changes by state! 209.177.158.219 17:09, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Do you have any refs for that? Kwamikagami (talk) 19:12, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Ohio defines it as when the electrical activity can be detected. They don't give a set time, though predict that it will be before 7 weeks. They also give a definition that is self-contradictory, but a judge might rule that the intent was clear even if the facts were muddled. Kwamikagami (talk) 17:20, 11 July 2022 (UTC)

Reconsider Texas

Revisiting Discussion topic #25 above:

By law, as 77.97.123.17 stated above, abortion is currently illegal in Texas. Although the enforcement is only civil for now (criminal I believe in a month or two), it might be worth considering changing the color fully to black because black represents better abortion's current legality in Texas (and the map is designed to specify levels of legality primarily). Texas' 1925 ban is currently real and enforced.

Guttmacher also now makes the claim that abortion is illegal in Texas. https://states.guttmacher.org/policies/texas/abortion-policies I change my mind on the civil-criminal distinction and vote that we change Texas fully to black. Brom20110101 (talk) 21:04, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

Thanks. I agree. A lot of people mistaking what legality actually means. 77.97.123.17 05:25, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

It's not a misunderstanding of what 'illegal' means, but that it's illegal on two different levels. But perhaps that's not a distinction worth making. Kwamikagami (talk) 19:11, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Louisiana: now illegal

After a court hearing in the last two hours or so, a judge has allowed Louisiana to re-instate its total ban on abortion (i.e., abortion is now illegal). See here: https://www.fox8live.com/2022/07/08/louisiana-court-clears-way-state-ban-most-abortions/ It's possible there could be an appeal to the LA Supreme Court and another stay, will check and see if that happens. As of 18:05 UTC on 2022-07-08, abortion is illegal in LA. Changing LA to black (and will watch to see if that changes again) Brom20110101 (talk) 18:05, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

A second source:

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/louisiana-abortion-ban-allowed-proceed-judge-lifts-stay-86470532 Brom20110101 (talk) 18:13, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Trigger laws blocked again: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/judge-blocks-louisiana-enforcing-abortion-ban-latest-courtroom-twist-rcna37966

Kwamikagami (talk) 01:46, 13 July 2022 (UTC)

North Carolina

This source says 20 weeks. https://www.prochoiceamerica.org/state-law/north-carolina/ Dashing24 (talk) 06:30, 9 July 2022 (UTC)

That source is incorrect. Look at this source from three days ago:

https://www.wunc.org/news/2022-07-06/nc-governor-signs-executive-order-protecting-abortion-access

U.S. District Judge William Osteen blocked that ban in 2019:

https://www.npr.org/2019/03/27/707073400/federal-judge-blocks-north-carolina-abortion-ban-after-20-weeks

Guttmacher also confirms (as of 2022-06-28) that abortion is legal until fetal viability in NC:

https://www.guttmacher.org/fact-sheet/state-facts-about-abortion-north-carolina# Brom20110101 (talk) 16:45, 9 July 2022 (UTC)

Also thought so but did come across. We should keep it as it is. Dashing24 (talk) 06:13, 10 July 2022 (UTC)

Reconsider Wisconsin and Grey Definition

It has been confirmed by many sources and Wisconsin’s state’s leaders that (r personal opposition) the law is in force. Not only that, we all know that the law banning abortion exists and there have been no safeguards to prevent the law from taking place. https://www.msnbc.com/symone/watch/wisconsin-returns-to-a-1848-abortion-ban-now-that-roe-v-wade-is-overturned-143508037541 https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/wisconsin-gov-vows-grant-clemency-doctors-charged-state-abortion-ban-rcna35479 (confirms it is law and nothing changed since that point) I also citate the exact WI law and a source confirming it has not been repealed. https://apnews.com/article/abortion-us-supreme-court-health-wisconsin-legislature-d87dd99e81b5e14a10476814bffaa0da (It has not been repealed source)

With these sources it is clear abortion is illegal in Wisconsin and request the decision to make it grey from black be reversed. If someone wants to keep it grey please explain their position and just because Guttmatcher doesn’t say it isn’t illegal doesn’t mean it cannot be wrong and this is what I am showing. It is down to the fact Guttmatcher hasn’t been updated.

2. It is frustrating that my proposal on the gray definition has been ignored. Please explain why my expansion to also include Legal or Legally Unclear is not a good idea. In fact it makes more sense. 77.97.123.17 09:13, 9 July 2022 (UTC)

That wording is yours! You edited it to be what you wanted! Yet you keep complaining about it while refusing to explain what's wrong with it. Kwamikagami (talk) 00:08, 10 July 2022 (UTC)

1.) Thanks 77.97.123.17, according to the source provided above, the old 19th century law has "technically retaken effect", and it also looks like the governor of WI has stated that the governor's office will grant clemency to anyone prosecuted under this law. That suggests to me that abortion is illegal in Wisconsin today on 2022-07-09 (i.e., that the law is real and potentially enforceable). I also see no discussion of court blocks. I agree, and I vote we shift WI to black.

Guttmacher:

https://states.guttmacher.org/policies/wisconsin/abortion-policies

Guttmacher says that "Pre-Roe abortion ban is still in place and can be enforced if Roe is overturned." Clearly, since Roe was overturned, they have not updated or are avoiding updating for some reason. Even Guttmacher claims the law is real and enforceable, assuming Roe was overturned and assuming there are no active court blocks. Brom20110101 (talk) 15:09, 9 July 2022 (UTC)

P.S. I'd like to hear what Kwami (and anyone else on the Internet since this Discussion is open to all of humanity) thinks as well before we change it. Let's give it a little time Brom20110101 (talk) 15:12, 9 July 2022 (UTC)

2.) For your second point: it looks like that was updated on the Commons legend already? Is it not updated over on Wikipedia? If not, I'll update that too so that it is aligned with the Commons legend Brom20110101 (talk) 15:31, 9 July 2022 (UTC)

Ok, "Legal or Legally Unclear" was already on Commons legend, so that checks out. It has been added now to English Wikipedia for consistency.

Still waiting to see if anyone else would like to offer thoughts on Wisconsin before changing it to black (based on the above discussion), be it 209.177.158.219, Kwami, Dashing24, or anyone else Brom20110101 (talk) 20:21, 9 July 2022 (UTC)

I don't really know. Guttmacher has had plenty of time to update this, and they have updated other states multiple times. So either WI is a quite egregious oversight, or there is something else going on or some evaluation that we don't know about. "Can be enforced if Roe is overturned" does not mean that it's actually in effect. Promising clemency if it will be enforced again doesn't mean that it's in effect. I'm leery of making OR judgements about legal issues that even the courts find complicated. I've seen plenty of cases where we've tried that and gotten it wrong. If you think you have adequate RS attestation that the law is currently in effect, I won't second-guess you, but I wouldn't rely on comments by officials who aren't legal experts and who may not know what they're talking about. I'd prefer a court declaration that the law is in effect. But we may have to balance inadequate reports and make our best judgement. Kwamikagami (talk) 00:15, 10 July 2022 (UTC)

I respect the cautious approach. I did some searching. WI's Attorney General Josh Kaul issued a lawsuit against the 1849 WI abortion ban, which can be read here: https://content.govdelivery.com/attachments/WIGOV/2022/06/28/file_attachments/2195932/EversKaul_Criminal%20Abortion%20Ban%20Complaint.pdf . Kaul argues that a 1985 law allowing abortions up to the point of a fetus' viability supersedes the 1849 ban, and that the 1849 ban is not enforceable. Case is in Wisconsin's Dane County Circuit Court, according to this source: https://www.wpr.org/attorney-general-josh-kaul-sues-block-wisconsins-abortion-ban . It will likely go up through WI's Supreme Court. Then, it looks like the WI Supreme Court will likely decide the case and whether there is a ban. Ok, my mind is changed. I agree with you Kwami, and no longer support 77.97.123.17's suggestion to change WI to black. I say we keep it at gray until the WI Supreme Court works out this lawsuit. Brom20110101 (talk) 01:23, 10 July 2022 (UTC)

Indeed, it's standard practice for a newer law to supersede and older one when there's a conflict. Maybe that's how Gutt read it? But then they have 22 weeks rather than viability, so I don't know. Kwamikagami (talk) 02:28, 10 July 2022 (UTC)

Given the lawsuit by AG Kaul I now think we should waste until the court case develops before definitively shading it into black, it is legally unclear. 77.97.123.17 06:12, 10 July 2022 (UTC)

Utah, July 11

There will be a court hearing tomorrow on 2022-07-11 in Utah to consider lifting the current court injunction against Utah's trigger ban (note: as of 2022-07-10, abortion is legal in Utah): https://www.sltrib.com/news/2022/07/08/laws-prohibiting-abortion-utah/

We might want to check in tomorrow and see if anything changes. It's possible abortion could become illegal in Utah tomorrow, and also possible the injunction could be continued (i.e., abortion could remain legal longer). Brom20110101 (talk) 15:45, 10 July 2022 (UTC)

Trial to determine continuation or cessation of the current Utah abortion ban injunction begins at 19:00 UTC, 2022-07-11 (I believe that time?): https://www.fox13now.com/news/local-news/judge-to-decide-if-utahs-abortion-trigger-law-remains-on-hold

Link to the affidavits:

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/22083554/planned-parenthood-aclu-affidavits-in-abortion-injunction.pdf Brom20110101 (talk) 18:49, 11 July 2022 (UTC)

Update: injunction was sustained; abortion ban blocked a second time; abortion remains legal in Utah on 2022-07-11 (edit: and here's a source: https://www.abc4.com/news/politics/judge-extends-ban-on-utahs-abortion-trigger-law/) Brom20110101 (talk) 20:30, 11 July 2022 (UTC)

Virginia

Been seeing this means from the 25th week, though not clear if that's LMP or actual pregnancy. [And now that it's after the 27th week.] State law site has up a warning saying they've been having problems updating the pages, though I can't see where 'trimester' is defined regardless. Kwamikagami (talk) 02:11, 13 July 2022 (UTC)

Louisiana Court Block Color

Color question: the black outline for LA is correct in the text file. In the image however, I see the black outline only for the lower part of the state. Is this error apparent to others as well (or maybe just something on my end)? Brom20110101 (talk) 03:35, 13 July 2022 (UTC)

That's because the states are ordered alphabetically and LA comes before MS and TX. I could move it down, but then the black border would erase the borders between the states, so it still wouldn't be visible. (At least, that's how other states work, but I don't understand why LA doesn't overlay AR.) Kwamikagami (talk) 03:40, 13 July 2022 (UTC)

That makes sense, good point about the black border erasing the border itself, given the black colors of LA's bordering states Brom20110101 (talk) 04:04, 13 July 2022 (UTC)

BTW, since we weren't using 20-week purple, and a couple people weren't happy with the pink colors, I shifted it to 18 weeks, and the 18-wk color to 15 wk. Kwamikagami (talk) 21:56, 13 July 2022 (UTC)

Given 20-week wasn't used, that sounds reasonable Brom20110101 (talk) 22:02, 13 July 2022 (UTC)

The Louisiana border is is not bold enough Dashing24 (talk) 17:04, 14 July 2022 (UTC)

Kentucky Injunction Lifted

On 2022-07-14, U.S. District Judge Rebecca Grady Jennings lifted an injunction against a 15-week abortion ban in the state of Kentucky: https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/local/2022/07/14/abortions-now-banned-at-15-weeks-in-kentucky/65373869007/ . Abortion is now banned in KY after 15 weeks---updating map Brom20110101 (talk) 03:04, 15 July 2022 (UTC)

Aesthetics: Florida and Louisiana

For Louisiana, the border isn’t bold enough and doesn’t cover the regular border. Can Louisiana’s black border be emboldened?

For Florida it states on the key that it is LMP, is it something unique to Florida or not? If it isn’t than there isn’t need for a separate footnote, just a note on the bottom. If it is it should be converted to the normal counting method, with a footnote like Massachusetts. Dashing24 (talk) 06:03, 15 July 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing this out, and I agree the black border around LA isn't correct. We discussed this issue above in the topic entitled "Louisiana Court Block Color". Emboldening the entire state would make the state distinctions disappear because the surrounding states are all black, as of 2022-07-15, so we opted to keep incorrect for now (i.e., only some black along the coastline).

Not sure about the FL question, maybe someone else could speak to that Brom20110101 (talk) 12:48, 15 July 2022 (UTC)

If you mean on WP-en rather than here, then I just added 'LMP' to the first LMP number on the list, which happened to be FL (now FL and KY). Nothing special about it. I'll go ahead and add it to all for clarity. Kwamikagami (talk) 22:40, 15 July 2022 (UTC)

West Virginia Legal Again

Kanawha County Circuit Court Judge Tera L. Salango granted an injunction against the pre-Roe West Virginia ban: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/west-virginia-abortion-ban_n_62d5b9e3e4b0e6fc1a9a379c As of 2022-07-18, abortion is legal again in WV and services will be resumed for now. Switching color for WV back to 22-weeks and placing a black border around the state.

Also: there is a color issue with the black border with WV (similar to LA). Could someone find a way to fix this? Brom20110101 (talk) 20:20, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for fixing the black border around WV, Kwami Brom20110101 (talk) 00:12, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

Just move the state to the end of the document, and it will overlay anything that appears before it. Currently there are 3 alphabetical lists in the coding: The states without borders, the territories, and the states with borders. When a border is removed, we should move the state back up into the 1st list. Kwamikagami (talk) 02:03, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

Puerto Rico

Abortion appears to be both legal at any time and illegal at any time, but in practice is 24 weeks, as in the USVI. IMO probably best to color it for 24 weeks, but please change if you disagree. [14] Kwamikagami (talk) 22:35, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

I would do it legal until birth as the law does allow it after 24 weeks. 213.14.91.136 05:11, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

But it's actually illegal in PR, so you could also argue for PR to be black. Gtrans of the law:[15]

Section 98. — Abortion. (33 L.P.R.A. § 5147)

Any person who allows, indicates, advises, induces or performs an abortion, or who provides, facilitates, administers, prescribes or causes a pregnant woman to take any medicine, drug or substance, or who uses or employs any instrument or other means with which purpose of making her abort; and any person who assists in the commission of any of said acts, except for a therapeutic indication made by a physician duly authorized to practice medicine in Puerto Rico, with a view to preserving the health or life of the mother, shall be sanctioned with a penalty of imprisonment for a fixed term of three (3) years.

Article 99. — Abortion committed by the woman or consented to by her. (33 L.P.R.A. § 5148)

Any woman who procures from any person any medicine, drug or substance, and takes it, or who undergoes any operation or any other surgical intervention or any other means, for the purpose of inducing an abortion except in the case that it is necessary to save their health or their life in accordance with the provisions of Article 98 of this Code, will be sanctioned with imprisonment for a fixed term of three (3) years.

So it's only practically legal, and thus the limit would seem to be the actual limit at which you can get an abortion. Is there a contradictory law which states that you can get an abortion throughout pregnancy? Kwamikagami (talk) 04:21, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

The law banning abortion in Peurto Rico, 22 weeks, post fertilisation has not been signed and only passed by the Senate not House. For some reason there is no news or information regarding the 2012 law, banning abortions in PR. The question here is whether de facto trumps de jure or not. There should be more consensus on editing

PR but it should either be green or black. Dashing24 (talk) 13:25, 21 July 2022 (UTC)

This has nothing to do with the 22-week ban, since as you note it's not the law. Kwamikagami (talk) 01:22, 22 July 2022 (UTC)

Georgia Heartbeat Law Injunction Lifted

As of 2022-07-20, the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals has lifted the injunction on Georgia's heartbeat law: https://www.cbs46.com/2022/07/20/court-lifts-injunction-georgias-abortion-law/ . The Georgia law bans most abortions once a “detectable human heartbeat” is present, typically at about six weeks or after. See also: https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/appeals-court-georgia-abortion-law-effect-87138463 . Switching Georgia to red and removing the red border Brom20110101 (talk) 19:03, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

Reverted back: https://www.ajc.com/politics/federal-court-says-georgias-anti-abortion-law-should-be-allowed-to-take-effect/2OWMEZNE3VHQFFH6CLYM4B2JIQ/

11th Circuit sent it back to U.S. District Judge Steve Jones. Law will come into effect within the next few days or possibly weeks. Will need to watch this to see when that happens officially. Brom20110101 (talk) 19:15, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

Change: the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals has issued a second statement, a stay, which can be read here: https://www.aclu.org/legal-document/sistersong-v-kemp-eleventh-circuit-stay-injunction . As such, the heartbeat abortion ban is now in effect today, 2022-07-20. Switching Georgia back to red and removing red border Brom20110101 (talk) 20:47, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

Another source (for the record): https://www.huffpost.com/entry/us-abortion-georgia_n_62d86965e4b000da23fb589e Brom20110101 (talk) 21:01, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

Aesthetics: Border

The simple white border, is of various different thickness, it is thinner in Georgia and Florida. That border should be adjusted to be of the same width. There is no border line whatsoever between Florida and Georgia… Dashing24 (talk) 13:34, 21 July 2022 (UTC)

Thanks, there's now a border line between Georgia and Florida Brom20110101 (talk) 14:59, 21 July 2022 (UTC)

The white borders show properly when the states are in alphabetical order in the document code. But the states need to be moved to the end of the list when we give them a thick colored border for a blocked law, otherwise the thick border may be overlain with the other borders. When that thick border is removed later, we sometimes forget to move the state back where it belongs. Kwamikagami (talk) 01:19, 22 July 2022 (UTC)

That makes sense, thanks for explaining Kwami Brom20110101 (talk) 01:49, 22 July 2022 (UTC)

Wyoming Upcoming Abortion Ban

On 2022-07-21, Wyoming Attorney General Bridget Hill verified the Dobbs decision and notified the Wyoming Governor Mark Gordon: https://cowboystatedaily.com/2022/07/21/wyoming-attorney-general-verifies-roe-overturn-law-official-in-10-days-or-less/ .

The Wyoming Governor has five days to certify Wyoming's near-total abortion ban, after which it will go into effect after another five days. Wyoming's near-total ban will go into effect sometime in the next 10 days, according to the above, so likely by the end of the month of July. We should look out for this change Brom20110101 (talk) 04:33, 22 July 2022 (UTC)

Update: This has now been certified and will be in effect from Wednesday 27th June. 213.14.91.136 18:51, 23 July 2022 (UTC)

Sources:https://wyofile.com/gov-gordon-certifies-wyomings-abortion-ban/, https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/most-abortions-will-soon-become-illegal-in-wyoming,

https://trib.com/news/state-and-regional/wyomings-abortion-ban-poised-to-go-into-effect-after-governor-certifies-law/article_b0c830fa-09d1-11ed-ace6-ab11e33672b4.html Dashing24 (talk) 09:09, 24 July 2022 (UTC)

Upcoming ban TN and ND

In Tennessee, there is no need for certification of the trigger law and it goes exactly 30 days after Roe v. Wade is officially overturned. Therefore on the 24th of July it will be completely illegal in Tennessee. https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/2022/06/24/tn-abortion-law-tennessee-attorney-general-files-emergency-motion-roe-vs-wade/7723483001/

In North Dakota, the trigger law was certified on the 28th June hence it will come into force on the 28th July. https://www.kfyrtv.com/2022/06/28/north-dakota-attorney-general-certifies-trigger-laws-that-make-abortion-illegal-state/ Dashing24 (talk) 08:46, 22 July 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for sharing these two sources. It looks like those bans both go into effect over the next week. Then, WY, TN, and ND all seem to be implementing bans in the coming 2-9 days---good to search for sources confirming these bans take place when the time comes, and to make the necessary map changes Brom20110101 (talk) 15:04, 22 July 2022 (UTC)

Update: Before a near-total abortion ban can go into effect in TN, Tennessee's Attorney General Herbert Slatery must notify the Tennessee Code Commission that Roe v. Casey is overruled. The near-total abortion ban will go into effect 30 days after this notification. As of 2022-07-22, the AG of TN has not made this notification, according to this source: https://www.wsmv.com/2022/07/22/explainer-when-do-tennessees-abortion-trigger-laws-go-into-effect/ . The TN AG is waiting for the U.S. Supreme Court to issue its official judgment on Dobbs, which will be issued 30 days after 2022-06-24, meaning on 2022-07-24 (or possibly 2022-07-25?). Assuming the TN AG acts immediately, that implies the near-total abortion ban will take effect sometime around August 24, 2022, or perhaps in the week following that date (i.e., the last week of August). Brom20110101 (talk) 04:52, 23 July 2022 (UTC)

Thanks. So ND and WY are the only imminent bans this/next week. 213.14.91.136 18:48, 23 July 2022 (UTC)

Instructions for Changing A State's Color

Instructions for changing the color of a state (to encourage new people to participate):

---

Note: if someone can make these instructions clearer, please edit anything you need to below

---

1.) Download the map, which is a .svg file. Specifically, go to the File main page, click the map, and right-click the map. Find "Save Page As..." and select this option. (Or, right-click on the preview (the .png file) and select "Save Link As...") Make sure the file you are downloading is a .svg file and not the .png preview image.

2.) Open the file using a text editor, such as Notepad or TextEdit. For example, locate the .svg file on your device (e.g., in a Downloads folder), right-click the file, select "Open With", and find a text editing program and select it. Notepad++, Sublime Text, and many other text editors should work too. Again, make sure the file is not a .png file (i.e., make sure you downloaded the .svg version). Don't download the .png file for editing.

3.) To modify a state's color, everything you need is usually in the first 35-40 lines of the file (as of 2022-07-22). Specifically, look down the lines of the file until you see state initials listed on different lines. Do several things: (a) locate the state's initials (e.g., for Alabama, the initials are .al) and notice the old legality it is at (e.g., "Illegal from fertilization"); (c) find the line with the new legality (e.g, "Illegal after 24 weeks"); and (d) remove the state's initials from the old line and place them at the new line. Make sure you delete the comma that separates the states in the old location, and add a comma if needed in the new location. (There needs to be a comma after every state in a list except the last one, or the file will be corrupted.) Then, save the file using the text editor.

Note that a state's initials can also be placed on one of the lines specifying a current court block, if that is also applicable.

4.) (a) Go back to the File main page, scroll down past the list of file versions until you see "Upload a new version of this file". Select this option. Scroll down to the "Source file" box. Select "Browse..." and find the .svg file that you modified. Upload it. (b) Go down to the box "File description" and find "File changes:". State the change made and a reason for making the change. Provide a reliable, verifiable, and accessible source if not using Guttmacher (i.e., as of 2022-07-22 the main source for this map). (c) Scroll down and select "Upload file". Brom20110101 (talk) 19:01, 22 July 2022 (UTC)

North Carolina blocked 20 week ban

NC should have a border for a blocked 20 week ban, although it says ‘of pregnancy’ so I assume it means 22 weeks LMP, therefore a dark blue border. If not then the 20 week border should be dark purple and 18 weeks should be a lighter purple e.g. Moon Raker purple. We can’t pick and choose borders, it must be consistent.

https://reproductiverights.org/court-strikes-down-north-carolina-abortion-ban/

https://apnews.com/article/abortion-health-north-carolina-phil-berger-government-and-politics-aeef8f273aa782f9d8f1dc251fb3db69

Texas Ban No Life Exceptions

‘See Tex. Rev. Civ. Stats. Ann. Art. 4512.1 (“Abortion”), previously codified at Tex. Pen. Code art. 1191 (1925) (“If any person shall designedly administer to a pregnant woman or knowingly procure to be administered with her consent any drug or medicine, or shall use towards her any violence or means whatever externally or internally applied, and thereby procure an abortion, he shall be confined in the penitentiary not less than two nor more than five years; if it be done without her consent, the punishment shall be doubled. By ‘abortion’ is meant that the life of the fetus or embryo shall be destroyed in the woman’s womb or that a premature birth thereof be caused.”); Tex. Rev. Civ. Stats. Ann. Art. 4512.2. (“Furnishing the means”), previously codified at Tex. Pen. Code art. 1192 (1925) (“Whoever furnishes the means for procuring an abortion knowing the purpose intended is guilty as an accomplice.”); Tex. Rev. Civ. Stats. Ann. Art. 4512.3 (“Attempt at abortion”), previously codified at Tex. Pen. Code art. 1193 (1925) (“If the means used shall fail to produce an abortion, the offender is nevertheless guilty of an attempt to produce abortion, provided it be shown that such means were calculated to produce that result, and shall be fined not less than one hundred nor more than one thousand dollars.”); Tex. Rev. Civ. Stats. Ann. Art. 4512.4 (“Murder in producing abortion”), previously codified at Tex. Pen. Code art. 1194 (1925) (“If the death of the mother is occasioned by an abortion so produced or by an attempt to effect the same it is murder.”); Tex. Rev. Civ. Stats. Ann. Art. 4512.6 (“By medical advice”), previously codified at Tex. Pen. Code art. 1196 (1925) (“Nothing in this chapter applies to an abortion procured or attempted by medical advice for the purpose of saving the life of the mother.”).’ Dashing24 (talk) 04:40, 25 July 2022 (UTC)

§1196 is clearly an exemption for the life of the mother. It's very close to the wording of the exemptions in other states. Besides our primary source, which says TX has such an exemption, we have the summary written by the AG of Texas in 1974:[16]

The holding in Roe v. Wade was that Article 1196, excepting from criminality only a lifesaving procedure on behalf of the mother without regard to the state of pregnancy and without recognition of other involved interests, violated the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment. The Court further concluded that, because Article 1196 was unconstitutional, the other abortion statutes of Texas also fell. "The exception of Art. 1196 cannot be stricken separately, for then the State is left with a statute proscribing all abortion procedures no matter how medically urgent the case." (410 U.S. at 166)

Kwamikagami (talk) 08:51, 25 July 2022 (UTC)

Colour Scheme Now Done for Editing NC border

As I am no expert, can someone now add NC a 20 week border, sources in the original post. Dashing24 (talk) 16:54, 25 July 2022 (UTC)

That would be nearly indistinguishable from a black border. Kwamikagami (talk) 20:43, 25 July 2022 (UTC)

I'll do a test to see what it looks like, for the record Brom20110101 (talk) 01:36, 26 July 2022 (UTC)

Ok, test complete, it can be viewed among the previous versions. It looks distinguishable from a black border on my screen. It also seems to be like LA where the border only follows the coast for some reason. Brom20110101 (talk) 01:44, 26 July 2022 (UTC)

I reverted it back to the test version and I think it should be kept that way. The only thing is that the blue border must now be emboldened. Dashing24 (talk) 04:52, 26 July 2022 (UTC)

Brom, I think you just need to move NC down to the bordered states at the end of the doc. Kwamikagami (talk) 06:52, 26 July 2022 (UTC)

Wyoming Trigger Ban Now in Effect and North Dakota Trigger Ban in Effect Tommrow (July 28)

Please refer to previous sources in prior posts and the article page. Dashing24 (talk) 05:55, 27 July 2022 (UTC)

You're correct about Wyoming. As of 2022-07-27, at about 15:00 UTC, abortion is illegal in Wyoming. However, District Court Judge Melissa Owens began a hearing about seven minutes ago to determine whether to grant a preliminary injunction against the trigger ban: https://www.wyomingnews.com/laramieboomerang/news/lawsuit-seeks-to-block-wyoming-abortion-ban/article_bf75ba6f-1c36-5382-9a97-89b6d659bc69.html. For now, I'll change Wyoming to black since it's true (today is 2022-07-27 and an injunction is not enforced at this moment). I'll plan on checking the outcome of the hearing that is ongoing as I type this to see if Wyoming should be switched back with a colored border. Brom20110101 (talk) 16:08, 27 July 2022 (UTC)

Total abortion ban was blocked in court: https://thehill.com/homenews/ap/ap-health/wyoming-abortion-ban-takes-effect-amid-legal-effort-to-block/. Switching Wyoming back and giving it a black border; we should monitor this state for changes Brom20110101 (talk) 18:16, 27 July 2022 (UTC)

Watch: August 25, 2022, Near-total Abortion Bans Across Multiple States

Abortion will be illegal in Tennessee on August 25, 2022: https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/2022/07/26/tennessee-abortion-trigger-law-ban-2022-expected-august/10061093002/. It will be illegal in North Dakota also (likely) on August 25, 2022: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/judge-puts-on-hold-north-dakota-trigger-law-banning-abortion . Finally, Idaho's near-total ban is set to take effect also on August 25, 2022: https://www.ktvb.com/article/news/local/abortion-will-be-illegal-in-idaho-aug-25/277-a16ede0b-a2c1-4269-a1b2-1b0c0dee9a25 . (Texas' near-total abortion ban will also take effect that day criminally, although it is already civilly enforced: https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Texas-Ken-Paxton-abortion-trigger-ban-aug-25-17335266.php). We should monitor events that day to see if these changes take place — Preceding unsigned comment added by Brom20110101 (talk • contribs)

It seems highly possible that a federal judge will block the Idaho total ban from going forward. A decision will be issued before Wednesday. https://www.reuters.com/legal/us-judge-questions-idaho-abortion-ban-biden-administration-challenge-2022-08-22/ President Loki (talk) 08:56, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

I was wrong about that. The federal case was only involving the part of the law regarding saving the life of the mother, and therefore the total ban will still go into effect on August 25. President Loki (talk) 02:42, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

All of these bans are now in effect. President Loki (talk) 06:01, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

North Dakota

ND’s ban was scheduled to take effect today however it was blocked by court therefore it should now receive a black border as the most stringent blocked ban.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/judge-puts-on-hold-north-dakota-trigger-law-banning-abortion

One source out of many. Dashing24 (talk) 04:28, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

Thanks Dashing, map has been updated Brom20110101 (talk) 04:58, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

Question: Montana

Like NC (see Topic #49 above), a judge blocked a 20-week (22-week LMP) ban: https://www.reuters.com/world/us/judge-issues-last-minute-delay-montana-abortion-laws-hours-after-taking-case-2021-10-01/. For consistency, should we give Montana a border like NC then? I tried adding one (see the test). A new problem arises: Montana borders states with different colored borders. It looks confusing. What do we do? Brom20110101 (talk) 16:37, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

I believe it should for consistency. The only thing though is that on your version, which I reverted it back to, has the Idaho Montana border emboldened blue however as 6 weeks is more stringent it should be Idaho’s red. 213.14.91.136 08:12, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

UPDATE: I have not reverted the map as a blue border is incorrect in this case. 20 weeks of gestation means 20 weeks LMP, therefore a new colour is needed. For NC, I am unsure whether it is 20 or 22 weeks LMP. More discussion necessary. 213.14.91.136 08:15, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

I agree that a more stringent color should be prioritized when it's valid. And that makes sense, so we would need to resurrect the 20-week color (which was removed in the past) only as a border color. Brom20110101 (talk) 16:18, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

Are you sure about NC? It must then (20 wk) be resurrected on key, Dashing24 (talk) 16:38, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

We discussed this NC issue in Topic #47 above. Neither provided URL source in that topic discusses 22-weeks, they both discuss 20-week bans. Maybe the NC law itself mentions something more specific though (i.e., 22-week LMP)? If NC is actually 20-weeks, that would be a second state border (with Montana) that needs a new (resurrected) color for 20-weeks.

Then, three tasks that come to my mind include:

1.) We need to confirm that NC is 20-weeks (not 22-week LMP)

2.) Need a new color on the map for MT and possibly NC (need to resurrect the previous color for 20-weeks)

3.) Need to ensure that the border between Idaho and Montana remains red once the new color is implemented, in order to prioritize displaying the stricter ban when possible Brom20110101 (talk) 20:03, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

1. The North Carolina law refers to ‘20 weeks of pregnancy’ as do the sources and weeks of pregnancy are LMP. Therefore NC is factually incorrect and needs a 20 week ban.

2. and 3. A 20 week colour, could use the colours used previously, needs to be resurrected on the key with all the other affected states reshaded. Dashing24 (talk) 05:39, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

That makes sense with NC. As of 2022-07-31, abortion is illegal after viability in NC (i.e., the current state color is correct on the map); but the current court block needs to be changed to a 20-week ban color. Brom20110101 (talk) 19:55, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

Update: I just noticed someone made a footnote in the key for the map, stating that some states define the 22-week ban as 20-weeks. In that case, it seems fine to just keep the colors as they are (keep 20 and 22 together) since that's been on the key for awhile. If we do that, MT would still need its border updated to be like the NC border, and the red ID border would still need to be prioritized Brom20110101 (talk) 17:51, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

No that is confusing, inconsistent and not a good idea to squish two different type of weeks together as many skip the footnote and will struggle to distinguish which one is the one. I will update the colour scheme, please edit the map accordingly. Dashing24 (talk) 05:27, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

That makes sense. A lot of people probably do skip the footnotes, and consistency is important. I'll take a look at Topic #59 for discussion about color scheme changes. Brom20110101 (talk) 16:17, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Watch: Louisiana Trigger Ban Again

LA is poised to enforce its near-total trigger ban while lawsuits occur in court. See here: https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/louisiana/articles/2022-07-29/louisianas-abortion-ban-positioned-to-be-enforced-again . Abortion is legal in LA as of 2022-07-29, although it might be illegal again tomorrow, or possibly in the next several days. Should watch this Brom20110101 (talk) 04:32, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

Abortion in Louisiana is now illegal, as what is poised in the article happened.

https://www.wdsu.com/article/louisiana-trigger-law-bans-almost-all-abortions-allowed-enforced/40758134

https://twitter.com/AGJeffLandry/status/1553096712369180675?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet 213.14.91.136 08:17, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

As the first provided source states, the ban is not in effect until Judge Johnson signs the ban, which has not happened yet. It might be today, tomorrow, or Monday (or later?) when that happens. We should look out for a source and switch LA when it happens Brom20110101 (talk) 16:16, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

19th Judicial District Judge Don Johnson has signed the order and the ban is in effect again: https://www.theadvocate.com/baton_rouge/news/article_b8bb7d94-11ba-11ed-af79-a333bc826a3a.html. Switching LA to black Brom20110101 (talk) 17:42, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

Another source, for the record: https://www.chron.com/news/article/Louisiana-abortion-ban-reinstated-clinics-halt-17343663.php Brom20110101 (talk) 22:12, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

Watch: Indiana and West Virginia Abortion Bans

As of 2022-08-01, Indiana and West Virginia legislatures are debating near-total abortion bans: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/west-virginia-indiana-move-closer-to-near-total-abortion-bans_n_62e42690e4b00fd8d83f1e23. We should monitor the next few weeks to see if bans (or court blocks) go into effect Brom20110101 (talk) 22:18, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

On 2022-08-05, the Indiana legislature passed a near-total abortion ban (see here): https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2022-08-05/indiana-house-passes-abortion-ban-sends-to-senate. The bill now goes to the governor of Indiana for signing (i.e., ban has not taken effect yet, as of 2022-08-05). Should watch out to see when governor signs bill and when it is scheduled to go into effect; should also watch to see if a court block occurs Brom20110101 (talk) 02:36, 6 August 2022 (UTC)

Indiana update: near-total abortion ban bill was signed into law by the Indiana governor on 2022-08-05 in local Indiana time. See here: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/05/us/indiana-abortion-vote.html. Law goes into effect 2022-09-15, according to the statement for Indiana here: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/us/abortion-laws-roe-v-wade.html Brom20110101 (talk) 04:41, 6 August 2022 (UTC)

For reference, the West Virginia legislature failed to pass an abortion ban during its special legislative session: https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/30/politics/west-virginia-legislature-abortion-discussion/index.html. Will now strike out this topic and create a new one if/when the WV legislature begins debating a bill again Brom20110101 (talk) 01:40, 13 August 2022 (UTC)

Tweaking display of borders

I've changed how the borders for blocked bans are displayed. They used to be around the state, but now they're rendered inside using clipPaths. The borders no longer clash when there's a cluster of them, yielding better clarity and apperance. The Quirky Kitty (talk) 03:40, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Yeah, I like that. Too bad it doesn't work in preview! Kwamikagami (talk) 03:50, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Agreed, that fix looked good and solved the overlapping problem. I wish the preview had worked Brom20110101 (talk) 04:48, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

I'm glad y'all liked it. I managed to tweak the code so the preview works properly! The Quirky Kitty (talk) 22:31, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

Thanks Kitty, it looks great Brom20110101 (talk) 22:40, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

Yeah, I'll have to see what you did so maybe I can replicate it some day. Kwamikagami (talk) 03:58, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

Broken states

Had to revert my own edit because the PNG preview is broken. All the states are gone. Something must have been incompatible with whatever MediaWiki uses to render it. Does anyone know why? The Quirky Kitty (talk) 03:46, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

You could check with the graphics lab on WP-en, though last time I asked about screwy PNG previews, they gave up trying to figure it out and just redid the map. Kwamikagami (talk) 03:49, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Thank you. The cause seems to be that the servers use a fairly old version of librsvg. clipPath is fundamental to my technique, but I'm not sure if it supports it at all. The Quirky Kitty (talk) 04:41, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

You might see how far you get asking them to update it, then. They might be worried about knock-on effects whenever they update, and not want to fix what ain't broke, but there's even less chance if no-one asks. Kwamikagami (talk) 07:38, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Guttmacher aug01

Corresponds to our map apart from GA, which it shows at 22 weeks. Kwamikagami (talk) 03:46, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

We know Ga. is 6 weeks with sources provided. Dashing24 (talk) 05:24, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

We don't "know" anything. We have sources above for GA. Guttmacher confirms everything else. Kwamikagami (talk) 07:35, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Guttmacher says Georgia is 6 weeks: https://states.guttmacher.org/policies/georgia/abortion-policies Brom20110101 (talk) 16:03, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Ah, thanks. Didn't make it into the summary list. Kwamikagami (talk) 05:31, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

Oh yeah, I see that now, you're right, they didn't update the list Brom20110101 (talk) 19:05, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

Colour Scheme

I have updated the colour scheme to include a colour for the 20 week ban, as it was discussed that it is necessary. My only question here is to clarify whether the new 15 week colour should be orange or red-violet. Please discuss which is best, I have tested both, but used red-violet as previously discussed that 15 shouldn’t be a danger colour. Dashing24 (talk) 05:40, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

The colors need to match the map. You claimed that KY and FL have 18 week bans instead of 15. Also, if all you need the new color for is a couple borders, your previous blue was more legible. Kwamikagami (talk) 07:34, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

The map as a whole must be updated to fit in 20 weeks and some states reshaded. Dashing24 (talk) 18:37, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

I reverted your undo Dashing24 (talk) 18:37, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

edited: Misread the discussion; not sure what's going on with this 20-week color idea. Could someone maybe explain the current line of reasoning? Brom20110101 (talk) 21:37, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

NC and MT have blocked 20-wk bans, not 22-wk. So they should probably be a different blue. Dashing24 added an additional blue to the key a while ago, on WP-en, but I removed it because we weren't using it. They're now trying to force us to shift the colors by misrepresenting the map on WP-en. The old darker blue was better visually, -- I'd rather not change the colors we're already using if we don't need to, -- though I doubt readers will be able to distinguish a color that only occurs in the borders. Kwamikagami (talk) 05:35, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

I stopped but it is blatant inconsistentency to simply have incorrect borders. I thought the plan was to change that. I did not change the dark blue on the new colour scheme, I only changed the 15 wk colour completely and shifted the other colours forward. Please feel free to create your own colour scheme but until it isn’t different he MT and NC are incorrect. Every reader should be able to read it correctly. Dashing24 (talk) 06:03, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

On one hand, we've done a lot of color scheme testing this summer (or this winter, if you're south of the equator) and found that the current week-color combinations work well. On the other, the 20-week bans are real, and it's important to be consistent. I see the issue now with finding a 20-week, purple-blue color that's distinguishable from 18-weeks and from 22-weeks on the map: it's a tough task.

\

We can't shift the black end of the color spectrum, leaving only the green end. The current logical order is (black)-(gray)-red-purple-blue-cyan-green. We're currently moving in the (1)Red-(2)Blue-(3)Green [RBG] direction, not the (1)Red-(2)Green-(3)Blue [RGB] direction. Examining a standard color wheel, the current order implies that orange and yellow must be before red or after green (see this color wheel): https://www.canva.com/colors/color-wheel/. Let's assume we'd place orange and yellow-ish colors only before red, not after green. However, that's not possible here because states don't exist with bans before the current embryonic cardiac bans (not including current gray and black). With our current RBG direction, we've taken the color wheel, made a cut between red and green, excluded all colors between red and green, and pulled the wheel into two directions, making it a color accordion with red on the far left end and with green on the far right end.

\

So in my opinion, unless we change from current RBG to RGB, orange and yellow are just not going to work. We have to find something between blue and purple for now in the RBG world we live in. If we shift to the RGB direction, we'll have the same problem finding a shade between yellow and green, although it might be easier because orange would exist there. We've already tested the map with the RGB direction (see here: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/archive/a/a1/20220702023552%21Gestational_limits_for_elective_abortion_in_the_United_States.svg). We agreed that it didn't look as good as RBG world.

\

Living with RBG, we're forced to find a purple-blue distinction. I say we identify the spectrum (i.e., the current RBG accordion) midpoint of the current 18-week and 22-week colors and use that for 20-weeks. For 18-week #9900FF and for 22-week #0000FF, the RBG midpoint is #4C00FF for 20-weeks (can confirm this midpoint with this online tool: https://meyerweb.com/eric/tools/color-blend/#9900FF:0000FF:1:hex). It will probably look somewhat indistinguishable, yet I can't think of something better. Brom20110101 (talk) 16:26, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

Dashing's choice was 50% blue, #000080:

 

18

 

20

 

22

That might be difficult to distinguish from black. But your #4C00FF is difficult to distinguish from 22 weeks:

 

18

 

20

 

22

Maybe something in between?

 

18

 

20

 

22

or

 

18

 

20

 

22

Redder is shorter (limit/stop color), but so is darker (black for total bans). Kwamikagami (talk) 03:49, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

Thanks Kwami, the new color you added looks good to me Brom20110101 (talk) 04:26, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

I don’t mind that however I thought of a better alternative, the one that was reversed. It also very good 5he borders are now within the states.

My Proposal:

1. C71585 15 (the hex code for red violet)

OR

Orange colour 15

The current 15 (now on the map) becomes 18

And the current 18 becomes 20.

More harmonious and less need to change, more shifting. Dashing24 (talk) 06:03, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

EDIT: At time of writing it was changed but I didn’t even see the difference between 20 and 22. I think the current one is too difficult for certain readers to see the difference in. Dashing24 (talk) 06:04, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

Orange (and yellow) won't work, with reasons outlined in one of my comments above. Brom20110101 (talk) 12:56, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

I vote we keep it as is for borders, and we reconsider changing it again if/when we need to shade an entire state Brom20110101 (talk) 13:07, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

Hence I proposed red-violet. Anyways, just a suggestion. Dashing24 (talk) 17:29, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

Oh, yeah, I see now that you proposed #000080 up above, thanks for clarifying Brom20110101 (talk) 16:21, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

I gave the first one a shot: #0000CC.

Kentucky

In KY abortion is now illegal. https://edition.cnn.com/2022/08/01/politics/kentucky-abortion-ban/index.html

https://eu.courier-journal.com/story/news/local/2022/08/02/kentucky-abortion-ban-reinstated-after-court-grants-camerons-request/65388729007/ Dashing24 (talk) 18:38, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Thanks Dashing, I'll update the map and switch KY to black Brom20110101 (talk) 21:21, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Idaho Six-week Ban

As Loki pointed out (and you were correct the first time, Loki), Idaho's six-week abortion ban went into effect 2022-08-12: https://www.sacbee.com/news/nation-world/national/article264140511.html.

This source states (and there are other sources out there too for cross-checking): "Planned Parenthood decried the decision in its own news release. The organization told the Statesman it will continue to provide abortions performed before six weeks of pregnancy until Aug. 25, when the complete ban takes effect."

The six-week ban is in effect today, and a near-total ban takes effect on August 25th (which is confirmed in Topic #51 above). Brom20110101 (talk) 01:34, 13 August 2022 (UTC)

Watch: September 15th, Indiana Near-total Abortion Ban

As discussed in Topic #55 above (see there for more details), Indiana's abortion ban law will take effect 2022-09-15. Should watch that date to confirm that this occurs and that Indiana should be switched to black. Should also watch for any court blocks Brom20110101 (talk) 01:59, 13 August 2022 (UTC)

It is now certain the Indiana Law will indeed go into effect on the 15th September, no possibility of an injunction.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/indiana-court-hearing-set-abortion-ban-takes-effect-89763425 Dashing24 (talk) 06:26, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

It looks like the map was updated appropriately, in accordance with the above Brom20110101 (talk) 14:09, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

North Dakota

Until the trigger ban gone into effect in ND, the state should be shaded grey as there are now no providers in the state.

https://www.kfyrtv.com/2022/08/10/north-dakota-abortion-clinic-opens-new-minnesota-site/ Dashing24 (talk) 18:01, 14 August 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for sharing Dashing. It doesn't state in the source whether the North Dakota clinic closed, just that the new one opened in Minnesota. Is there another source about this event definitely stating the ND clinic closed? It's possible both could be operational as of 2022-08-14 (today) Brom20110101 (talk) 19:02, 14 August 2022 (UTC)

My error, according to the source from CBS news as the clinic has been given more time, it is a transition from Fargo to Moorhead in the last few final weeks.

https://www.cbsnews.com/minnesota/news/north-dakota-abortion-clinic-says-minnesota-move-wont-delay-services/

In the same source it also confirms the trigger ban will enter effect August 26, 2022. Dashing24 (talk) 07:35, 15 August 2022 (UTC)

That makes sense, so it sounds like we should keep ND as is for now. It also sounds like it's still worth watching ND on August 25 or 26, 2022 to watch for the trigger ban taking effect Brom20110101 (talk) 13:56, 15 August 2022 (UTC)

Watch: Iowa Heartbeat Ban

Iowa Governor Kim Reynolds has formally asked the district court to lift the injunction on the heartbeat ban as both SCOTUS SCOIA removed legal basis for protecting abortions. It is likely that the law will go into effect in the coming days.

https://www.cbsnews.com/minnesota/news/north-dakota-abortion-clinic-says-minnesota-move-wont-delay-services/

https://www.cbsnews.com/minnesota/news/north-dakota-abortion-clinic-says-minnesota-move-wont-delay-services/

2 sources out of many. Dashing24 (talk) 07:38, 15 August 2022 (UTC)

Sorry copy paste not working Dashing24 (talk) 07:42, 15 August 2022 (UTC)

Correct sources:

https://apnews.com/article/abortion-us-supreme-court-health-iowa-66b51456b20d4a294bd5b0547052a5e3

https://www.iowapublicradio.org/state-government-news/2022-08-11/reynolds-asks-district-court-to-reinstate-six-week-abortion-ban

https://eu.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/politics/2022/08/11/kim-reynolds-asks-reinstate-fetal-heartbeat-iowa-abortion-law-without-roe-v-wade/10297123002/

I provided three here instead of two. Dashing24 (talk) 10:27, 15 August 2022 (UTC)

That makes sense, so it's probably a good idea to watch Iowa to see if something changes soon, like you state above Brom20110101 (talk) 13:59, 15 August 2022 (UTC)

A court hearing is scheduled for December 28th so we will now the outcome around that time.

https://eu.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/2022/09/13/iowa-abortion-providers-argue-theres-no-legal-basis-enact-near-ban/10371254002/ Dashing24 (talk) 06:31, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

Correction: News articles corrected themselves that the court hearing is scheduled for a more plausible October 28th not December, so we will find out the outcome by then, so we should watch the case particularly by around that time. Dashing24 (talk) 17:07, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

Change Arizona

As of 2022-08-15, some clinics in Arizona continue to operate openly (see here): https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/aug/15/arizona-abortion-laws-ban-access. Guttmacher also states that abortion remains legal in Arizona, according to the main source for this map: https://www.guttmacher.org/state-policy/explore/state-policies-later-abortions. Although legality is still unclear, legal questions are being addressed currently in AZ courts. Some providers are available. We should consider revisiting Topic #8 from last June, and should consider changing Arizona from gray back to 20-weeks LMP status. 20-weeks LMP is what Guttmacher currently states in the main source. Brom20110101 (talk) 14:47, 15 August 2022 (UTC)

I vote that Arizona should be shifted to the 20 weeks LMP dark blue colour as it current law in the state that isn’t overturned. Courts have granted both an injunction against the pre state abortion ban and personhood law meaning they are legal until 20 weeks LMP.

https://apnews.com/article/abortion-us-supreme-court-health-arizona-1dfb2f9d370aa1ba9513fa7fd12f716f Dashing24 (talk) 05:09, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

However the abortion ban is blocked by the courts therefore AZ also needs a black border to signify that. Dashing24 (talk) 05:10, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

I changed the map per the above, but I don't understand what "the main source" is. All I see is a viability limit in G's summary article, with the 20-wk limit blocked. Kwamikagami (talk) 19:32, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

Thanks, Kwami. The main source is Guttmacher. I misread. You're right, as of 2022-08-12, Guttmacher gives viability as the current Arizona abortion limit with a 20-week limit blocked by a court. The Guardian article above claims that a 20-week LMP limit is currently in effect, but I'm not sure where they're getting that information. I vote Arizona be changed to viability with a black border, which is what you already did. Brom20110101 (talk) 19:58, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

Update: I confused the 20-week blue with the other colors. Ok, looks like Arizona is currently at 20-weeks. I'll change it to viability Brom20110101 (talk) 20:00, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

Ok, updated Arizona to viability, based on what you pointed out above Kwami. Also, the bottom/southern part of the black AZ border looks too large/weird. Can that be fixed? Is that a result of the Q-Kitty-modification from before? I imagine there's a way to clean that up Brom20110101 (talk) 20:06, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

I fixed it President Loki (talk) 23:12, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

I reverted it because the fix removed the border entirely. We need a black border to signify the most stringent court block. To fix it, we need (a) to keep the border and (b) also make the width consistent around the entire state. Brom20110101 (talk) 01:55, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

The lower part of the black border is very thick and needs to be fixed. Dashing24 (talk) 04:35, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

Yes the twenty week ban is blocked. Dashing24 (talk) 04:41, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

It looks like Loki found a solution, looks good Brom20110101 (talk) 13:07, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

Exceptions

Shouldn't there be different colors based on different exceptions to abortion laws? (rape, incest, health, etc.) President Loki (talk) 23:30, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

That's an interesting idea. However, adding more colors might make the map too complicated. If exceptions were included, I would vote for using another method for depicting the exceptions, such as adding small symbols placed within state boundaries. Even with small symbols, there would need to be a way to chose the colors for those symbols so that they contrast well with the color of a given state (i.e., are easily viewable). What are other thoughts about including exceptions by others? For now the exceptions are viewable in the map legend and at the Template on English Wikipedia. Brom20110101 (talk) 02:07, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

We could create a separate exceptions map. Dashing24 (talk) 04:35, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

That's what the world map and original Mexico maps do. IMO we should probably use their colors, which would be rather at odds with the colors here. Kwamikagami (talk) 05:22, 18 August 2022 (UTC)

Change Wisconsin

I think the situation in Wisconsin is pretty much similar to Arizona but reverse. There is no court injunction in effect on the legally valid ban and there are no providers due to legal threat. The lawsuit to introduce an injunction doesn’t stop the state from enforcing the ban, as in Arizona does a lawsuit to lift the injunction. Even past statements by Giv Tony Evers, a leading name in the lawsuit, admits nothing is stopping prosecutors from enforcing the law. If the lawsuit is successful we will change WI as appropriate. wI should be black on the same principle Arizona is light blue. Dashing24 (talk) 12:11, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

We addressed this question in Topic #34 above. Consensus was to keep Wisconsin gray. Wisconsin's Attorney General Josh Kaul issued a lawsuit in Wisconsin's Dane County District Court against the 1849 WI abortion ban (see Topic #34 for related URLs). According to a recent source from 2022-08-15 (https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/2022/08/15/wisconsin-republicans-delay-response-lawsuit-challenging-abortion-law/10309757002/), there is a new deadline of 2022-08-22 for a response to the AG Josh Kaul lawsuit. Based on this deadline, it might be worth checking for any court updates over the coming week. Guttmacher still states that abortion is legal until 22-weeks LMP for Wisconsin. As Kwami pointed out in Topic #34, Guttmacher had plenty of time to change this and didn't. If anything, we should change Wisconsin to 22-weeks LMP for consistency with Guttmacher/the main map source. Brom20110101 (talk) 13:44, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

We should reconsider what we said in Topic 34. Lawsuits don’t block laws, my point is that if we did he Arizona changed, the consistent thing to do change WI. There are no available providers in WI. Dashing24 (talk) 15:31, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

However I do agree that we should maybe wait for AG Maul’s response first. Dashing24 (talk) 15:32, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

You mentioned previously that the Wisconsin Governor stated that nothing is stopping prosecutors from enforcing the old 19th century law. Where did you hear this, what is the source? Brom20110101 (talk) 22:22, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/wisconsin-gov-vows-grant-clemency-doctors-charged-state-abortion-ban-rcna35479

By offering pardons, Evers recognised the law is legally in force. Dashing24 (talk) 05:18, 18 August 2022 (UTC)

Ok, so it sounds like the current governor of Wisconsin acknowledges that the law is enforceable (and therefore in effect). My question is whether the governor making this acknowledgement is sufficient to change the status of WI from gray to black. As of 2022-08-18, the main source (i.e., Guttmacher) states WI as legal until 22 weeks LMP. If anything, I argue we change it to 22 weeks LMP to be consistent with Guttmacher, as done with Arizona. 2022-08-17 was the most recent Guttmacher update, according to their site, and as Kwami said in Topic #34, Guttmacher could have changed the status of WI at any time. At the same time, as of 2022-08-18, The New York Times claims there is currently a near-total abortion ban in WI: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/us/abortion-laws-roe-v-wade.html . I wonder what their reasoning is? Similar to yours above? Brom20110101 (talk) 00:33, 19 August 2022 (UTC)

Many others do claim there is. Big difference is that in AZ there was court rulings that did not lift the injunction , making it legal, at least for the time being. Guttmatcher is not always correct. We obviously don’t change it to 22 week LMP as there are no providers in the state, due to potential legal repercussions. Dashing24 (talk) 04:32, 19 August 2022 (UTC)

Additionally, the global map also has WI as illegal with life exceptions. 90.133.68.136 18:02, 19 August 2022 (UTC)

It's true that Guttmacher is not always correct. I found that Guttmacher states Wisconsin's Pre-Roe ban as still being in place and being enforceable. See here (last updated 2022-08-17): https://states.guttmacher.org/policies/wisconsin/abortion-policies. Brom20110101 (talk) 23:06, 19 August 2022 (UTC)

With that statement I think that gives the more reason why to make Wisconsin black. Do you still agree? Dashing24 (talk) 05:27, 20 August 2022 (UTC)

I say we keep it gray until the WI Supreme Court works out the lawsuit. As Kwami said in Topic #34, " 'Can be enforced if Roe is overturned' does not mean that it's actually in effect [Guttmacher]. Promising clemency if it will be enforced again doesn't mean that it's in effect [Governor of WI]." We already had this conversation in Topic #34. Brom20110101 (talk) 14:49, 20 August 2022 (UTC)

Then again, as the New York Times says, "The state [WI] has a law from before Roe that bans abortion with no exceptions for rape or incest, and makes performing them a felony. The Democratic governor and attorney general have filed a lawsuit in an attempt to block the ban." No court has blocked the law yet. Brom20110101 (talk) 14:51, 20 August 2022 (UTC)

Maybe we'll have clarity in two or three days when there is the deadline of 2022-08-22 for a response to the AG Josh Kaul lawsuit. Brom20110101 (talk) 14:53, 20 August 2022 (UTC)

I say that we keep it gray until 2022-08-22 after which, if there is no action, we change it as appropriate. Dashing24 (talk) 17:46, 20 August 2022 (UTC)

Ok, sounds good to me Brom20110101 (talk) 20:22, 20 August 2022 (UTC)

AG Kaul has not given an official response in the allocated time. Due ti this I think changing it to black is appropriate. Dashing24 (talk) 05:31, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

So should the change go ahead? President Loki (talk) 05:55, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

Yes; I think it should. 77.97.123.17 12:01, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

The attorney general of Wisconsin argues that the ban is unenforceable because it has become obsolete (i.e., it never went into effect after Dobbs). That's the basis of the WI AG lawsuit, which is supported by the WI governor. The opposing side argues that the law is enforceable and in effect. It's not clear to me that the law is in effect: that's the whole question being addressed in WI right now. I vote for keeping it gray and welcome others to provide more opposing or supporting reasoning on this Brom20110101 (talk) 20:31, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

You have a valid point, I think we should probably wait until after the judge issues a decision and then make the edit/keep it the way it is. President Loki (talk) 09:57, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

Idaho

I know it's not a huge issue, but Idaho has two timezones, and the ban presumably goes into effect on midnight on the 25th of August. Does anyone know how that legally works in Idaho? President Loki (talk) 09:12, 19 August 2022 (UTC)

As in other states, laws go into effect using the time zone the state capital is located in. Boise, the state capital, is located in the Mountain Time Zone. Dashing24 (talk) 10:41, 19 August 2022 (UTC)

I see, thanks. President Loki (talk) 10:46, 19 August 2022 (UTC)

Idaho total ban

Had the Idaho total ban been previously blocked, or was it already scheduled for August 25th? President Loki (talk) 07:16, 21 August 2022 (UTC)

Six-week ban had previously been blocked (and is no longer blocked). Idaho near-total ban has been scheduled for August 25th (see Topic #51 above). Brom20110101 (talk) 14:43, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

Review Colour Scheme Again

I really do think that the 20 week and 22 week colour shade are not sufficiently distinct, especially for those with impairments.

My Proposal: (Note we can't make 20 wks darked or the same problem will arise with black).

All not mentioned below remain the same. 15 week ban becomes red-violet, HEX CODE #C71585 (reference this article to see how it looks in better detail): https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red-violet 18 week ban becomes the lighter shade of purple currently used in Florida, 15 weeks. Alternatively, any lighter purple can be used compared to 20 weeks in my proposal. 20 week ban becomes the current darker shade of purple currently used in Utah, 18 weeks. Alternatively, any darker purple can be used compared to 18 weeks in my proposal.

Comment below for suggestions. I would be pleased to see these proposals implemented soon. Dashing24 (talk) 17:40, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

I agree that 20 weeks LMP and 22 weeks LMP are difficult to distinguish, and we should prioritize making the map more accessible to people with any visual impairments. It's not clear to me what you're proposing above. Could you make the proposed map, upload the proposed map for a few seconds, and then revert back to the current map? That would give a record of the proposed map so that people can evaluate it more easily. Brom20110101 (talk) 20:19, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

Done Dashing24 (talk) 07:43, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

You didn't revert, so I did.

Your scheme gives a quite inaccurate impression IMO. Florida is restrictive compared to Roe standards, but still allows abortion throughout the 1st trimester, which is reasonable by world standards. The red color implies it's nearly as restrictive as the 'heartbeat' limits e.g. in GA, which may ban abortion from the moment you realize you've missed your period. That's a huge difference in accessibility. FL should look nothing like GA. It would be better to have a single color for 20-22 weeks, if you really think it's that important. Kwamikagami (talk) 09:37, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

Well that is incorrect to simply squish two different restrictions. The colour is called red violet which blends in nicely. Loki and Brom agree the need for the change and that is what I did. Loki and Brom should hopefully reply and if not I assume they have no objections and will revert your undo, Kwai. Dashing24 (talk) 09:44, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

I personally do agree with the previous change. President Loki (talk) 09:44, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

That is then 2 to 1. Therefore I will revert now. Dashing24 (talk) 09:45, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

There is a coloured key so people don’t get confused, people don’t judge by impression. Kwai, please provide a better proposal that includes distinct colours AND does not merge restrictions. Dashing24 (talk) 09:45, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

No. You want to make the change, you make the proposal, per Brom above. And there's nothing wrong with merging ranges, if there are too many to indicate individually. That's routine for color-coded maps. Kwamikagami (talk) 10:01, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

It is not appropriate to do it for just two colours. Dashing24 (talk) 10:04, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

"A" color change doesn't mean that color change. Try something else. Then revert yourself as you claimed to have done. Kwamikagami (talk) 09:57, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

IMO Florida is more similar to pink than red. I even made the red darker to make it more distinct… Dashing24 (talk) 09:48, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

It's practically the same color. Anyway, you said you'd reverted yourself, but you hadn't. Kwamikagami (talk) 09:55, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

Brom and Loki agreed and you were outvoted. Unless you have anything useful my version is going back, don’t engage with an editing war with me Dashing24 (talk) 10:02, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

It's not a vote, it's a discussion. You could try another color, like a darker shade of Utah. But as Brom requested, you should make your suggestion and then revert yourself. Kwamikagami (talk) 10:10, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

I apologise for forgetting to reverse but if a majority support a new map, it should happen. That is my point. Dashing24 (talk) 10:15, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

There is no majority. One person likes your colors. Another does not. Another hasn't commented.

Our consensus has been reds for 1st-trimester bans, blues for 2nd-trimester, and greens for 3rd-trimester. There are plenty of possibilities for adjustment that would fit that scheme. We could also color by n-week blocks, like 16-18 wks, 20-22 wks, 24-26 wks, which is how most maps operate. Lots of choices, doesn't have to be the first one you try, especially when it's misleading to readers. Kwamikagami (talk) 10:26, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

If an agreement cannot be reached, perhaps an administrators input should be requested? President Loki (talk) 10:27, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

It's a discussion. We can discuss it. An admin's opinion isn't worth any more than anyone else's. We can ask for 3rd-party comment, but really, we should give it more than a few minutes before we pester other people. There's no rush. Kwamikagami (talk) 10:30, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

Yeah I agree with you on that. What I'm suggesting is that if no agreement can be reached after a longer period of time, perhaps an admin should weigh in. President Loki (talk) 10:33, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

On WP, there's request for 3rd-party comment. I don't know if Commons has an equivalent. We can also check with the Graphics/Map Lab on WP.

I just uploaded (and reverted) a version where FL, UT, NC have colors in the same purplish range. I'm not wedded to it, but it only took me a couple minutes to come up with something that's legible but stays within the current scheme. Kwamikagami (talk) 10:42, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

Currently, the pregnancy limits (in weeks) are 0, 2–3, 12, 15, 17, 19, viability, 21, 24, open-ended. That is, they're all staggered by 2-3 weeks, with the exception of the gap between Georgia etc. at 3 and Florida at 12, a separation of 9 weeks, and at the end, having no limit at all. That 9 weeks is a huge gap compared to the rest, as wide as the gap between Florida and Nevada or Utah and Massachusetts, and I think the map should reflect that. Having similar colors across the widest gap, and more distinct colors across the narrowest gaps, is IMO bad design. Kwamikagami (talk) 10:50, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

Here's a bar graph of the current abortion limits (weeks pregnant). '0' is ban (e.g. AL), '1' is 'heartbeat' (e.g. GA), '2' is Florida. IMO, '1' and '2' shouldn't have similar colors:

(One could argue that 8 (e.g. Massachusetts) and 9 (e.g. New Mexico) shouldn't have similar colors either, but at that end it hardly matters, because no-one gets an abortion that late unless it's for the kind of emergency that most of the blue-range states would allow medical exceptions for.) Kwamikagami (talk) 11:07, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

The Dashing map makes NC more distinguishable, and Kwami's comment about FL needing to look different from GA makes sense qualitatively. I agree that prioritizing distinctions in the states with less than 20-week LMP limits is important. Recent research (2018) by the USA Center for Disease and Control (CDC) provides evidence that nearly all abortions occur before 20 weeks (see here): https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/ss/ss6907a1.htm#T9_down. In fact, across all US states, more than 90% of abortions occur at or before 17 weeks (according to the cited table above). Then, for map changes, the lower end should have precedence over the upper end as the lower end is most relevant to reality. Still, it's good to distinguish 20-weeks and 22-weeks better, and the Dashing map accomplishes that. Is there another way to shift the colors to help make the distinction without disrupting Flordia? This brings us back to Topic #59 above. Until we have consensus, I argue we should keep the pre-Dashing map colors. Brom20110101 (talk) 14:49, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

I tried my best however for 15 week restrictions we need a clear transition from red to pink or purple to make it flowing. The problem is that if we shift it otherwise we either get two similar purple, pink or blue Colours but this is sufficiently distinct. I suggest that Brom votes for Kwamis suggestion or mine to break a tie, with a majority for one or the other. Just because one member dislikes something doesn’t mean it shouldn’t happen. I will experiment though and implement later. Dashing24 (talk) 15:46, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

Have included some other proposals from myself, and reverted to current version. Dashing24 (talk) 16:05, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

The second proposed Dashing map makes 20-22 weeks distinguishable while also ensuring that Florida (i.e., 15-weeks) is sufficiently different from the six-week red ban states (e.g., from Georgia), as pointed out by Kwami. That's an improvement over the first proposed Dashing map. The suggested 10:38, 24 August 2022 Kwami map is similar to this second Dashing proposal, although NC and FL are more distinguishable in the 2nd Dashing map than in the 10:38, 24 August 2022 Kwami map. I think the 2nd Dashing map could work. What do others think? Kwami, Loki, other people? One concern is that it looks like many of the colors on the map are darker now (e.g., the red states seem to be of a darker red). Could that pose a problem for people with visual impairments? Are brighter colors easier to see? I'm no expert on vision issues, so I have questions about that. One benefit of the 10:38, 24 August 2022 Kwami map is that it seems to retain some brighter colors, although again it's harder to distinguish NC and FL. Brom20110101 (talk) 16:32, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

Not as far as I am aware. I made the red a bit darker simply due to my aesthetic preference, I can return old red if that is what people want. Dashing24 (talk) 17:26, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

On English Wikipedia, the Wikipedia manual of style (see here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Accessibility#Color) addresses color palettes for promoting visual accessibility. Their recommendation is to follow the Web Content Accessibility Guidelines (WCAG) 2.0, found here: https://www.w3.org/TR/2008/REC-WCAG20-20081211/, which provide a AA level, and AAA level of accessibility for colors. They recommend having colors that at least meet the AA level rating. The Wikimedia Foundation Design visual style guide provides a set of colors that meet at least the AA level for accessibility (see here: https://design.wikimedia.org/style-guide/visual-style_colors.html), and some that meet the AAA level. Looking through this visual guide, the two subsections entitled "Accent Colors" and "Utility Colors" appear to have the WCAG 2.0 AA level and/or AAA level reds, pinks, blues, and greens that could be helpful for making this map more accessible. So, if anything, it might be worth trying a totally new color scheme (not Dashing #1 or #2, not 10:38, 24 August 2022 Kwami) that exclusively uses the HEX code colors listed by the Wikimedia Foundation Design team. I will attempt to make this map so that we can all compare Brom20110101 (talk) 17:52, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

I feel like if fully following the guidelines we will not be able to create an appropriate map. In the real world, many those with impairments just struggle to differentiate colours so they should be as distinct as possible. Dashing24 (talk) 18:31, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

Ok, I agree. I modified the guidelines with some changes to make it more practical for real-world viewing. Here is a readout of the proposed map I created, uploaded, and reverted from (can be viewed now in the file history). Edit: forgot to update the viability color, so uploaded a fixed second map (then reverted). See the second/most-recently-uploaded map as the proposed map, which has a different blue for viability that still meets AA, as with the previous blue for viability before the fix.

Proposed Color Scheme:

Location of Color:

6 of 11 colors are taken directly from Wikimedia Foundation Design Guide (WDG; link below).

5 of 11 colors were found and tested at web tool WebAIM (link below).

Color Standard:

3 of 11 colors do not meet AA level WCAG 2.0 or above.

4 of 11 colors do meet AA level WCAG 2.0.

4 of 11 colors do meet AAA level WCAG 2.0.

Notes:

Note 1: a total of 8 of 11 colors meet Wikiemdia Foundation recommendation of AA or above.

Note 2: WCAG 2.0 testing was conducted relative to a white background because (a) states border a white background by default around the edges of the USA map; and (b) states have a white border outline by default.

Illegal: #000000 (AAA, WCAG 2.0, from WDG).

Legal or unclear, no providers: #54595D (AAA, WCAG 2.0, from WDG).

Six-week cardiac: #B32424 (AAA, WCAG 2.0, from WDG)

15-week: #FEE7E6 (Not to standard, found at WebAIM by testing).

18-week: #A512A5 (AA, WCAG 2.0, found at WebAIM by testing).

20-week: #CA16CA (AA, WCAG 2.0, found at WebAIM by testing).

22-weeks: #2A4B8D (AAA, WCAG 2.0, from WDG).

Viability: #0065FF (AA, WCAG 2.0, from WDG)

24-weeks: #1FFFF8 (Not to standard, found at WebAIM by testing).

Third Trimester: #14866D (AA, WCAG 2.0, from WDG).

No limit: #00FF00 (Not to standard, WCAG 2.0, from WebAIM by testing).

URL Links:

WDG is Wikimedia Foundation Design Guide:

https://design.wikimedia.org/style-guide/visual-style_colors.html

WebAIM:

https://webaim.org/resources/contrastchecker/

Thoughts on and/or criticisms of this map? Brom20110101 (talk) 19:18, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

I personally do not like this map for the following reasons:

Colour transitions are rapid and not easy to assume

The 15 week colour is not satisfactory due to it being very pale

18 and 20 weeks are very similar

Practically no map operates within these guidelines and this one doesn’t either but having two near identical colours is just hard for anyone to see. I think that given all members had the opportunity to put forth proposals now we should aim to have a vote. My second proposal seems to be the most compromise option. Note that my colours were HEX codes on Wikipedia meaning all are also approved for those with impairments! Dashing24 (talk) 20:31, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

That makes sense. Compared to Dashing #2, it's harder to distinguish 18 and 20 weeks in the one that I uploaded (which I can see after you pointed it out). I think the Dashing #2 map works well. It modifies Dashing #1 based on Kwami's consideration and differentiates NC. Brom20110101 (talk) 21:14, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

Therefore can we implement my second proposal? Of the two, second proposal maps, one changes the green shade and one doesn’t. What do you think of the green experiment? Dashing24 (talk) 05:24, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

I'm fine w your choice for NC, so since we seem to be agreed there I went ahead and changed it.

I didn't care for the dark green that you said wasn't your proposal. Maybe a brighter green or bluish green would work.

The other color changes were not improvements, IMO. They made the colors more difficult to distinguish. That map was rather dark, and since black means a complete ban, IMO we don't want dark colors for liberal limits. Ideally they would shift through the spectrum and get brighter as the limits increase. Kwamikagami (talk) 05:56, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

Tennessee: No exceptions, including for saving a life

As discussed in Topic #51 above, the Tennessee abortion ban will take effect in TN tomorrow, 2022-08-25. It includes no exceptions to save the life of a pregnant person (i.e., total ban). See here: https://www.wkrn.com/news/tennessee-politics/can-tn-doctors-be-prosecuted-if-they-perform-an-abortion-to-save-a-mothers-life/?ipid=inline-link . As such, assuming no court blocks it tomorrow, after changing TN to black, we should update the legend of the map. Currently, the legend states "Abortion is legal with no gestational limit: in all states when the mother's life is in danger...", which will be incorrect. Should also watch tomorrow for any other bans going into effect (per Topic #51 above) Brom20110101 (talk) 01:19, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

Legend Update

The legend currently states "Abortion is legal with no gestational limit: in all states when the mother's life is in danger...". This statement is incomplete. There exist some intersex and/or transgender people who do not identify as women and who can become pregnant. For more information about intersex and/or transgender peoples who can get pregnant, consider the English Wikipedia article subsection here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pregnancy#Intersex_and_transgender_people. To be more inclusive, I am changing the quote above to "Abortion is legal with no gestational limit: in all states when the pregnant person's life is in danger...". Although, given Topic #71 above, this modified statement might need to be changed again tomorrow to reflect the TN case. Brom20110101 (talk) 01:26, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

All other Wikipedia articles refer to a mother as well as the majority of legislation so the change may not be consistent. In fact, federal law uses the term mothers not pregnant people and all pregnant people are legally considered mothers. Dashing24 (talk) 05:26, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

Additionally that is the most common term. Dashing24 (talk) 05:34, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

Agree w Dashing here. Biologically it's a mother; there's no possibility of confusion. (Spanish has la embarazada "the impregnated one", but that has its own problems: still gendered, and removes agency from women.) Kwamikagami (talk) 05:54, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

I also agree with Dashing on this. President Loki (talk) 06:06, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

Those are good points. Maybe I misunderstood the term mother at first read. I guess mother is different than woman. The first refers to a social role with one or more children (and the pregnancy role, assuming no adoption). The second refers to a gender. Ok, that makes sense in terms of legal language. I respect the comments above. And you're right, Kwami, making the term neutral could be dis-empowering, which is the opposite of what to aim for. Although, you do mention women above, Kwami, and not mothers. So it sounds like you're setting it up to empower women at the expense of peoples who are not women and can get pregnant Brom20110101 (talk) 14:24, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

'Although, you do mention women above, Kwami, and not mothers. So it sounds like you're setting it up to empower women at the expense of peoples who are not women and can get pregnant.' I agree with Kwami as the vast vast majority of mothers identify as women and all are biologically female so it does make sense that women are credited and have 'agency' for what is their natural ability. I personally would say 'woman' but 'mother' is a better term for a factual Wikipedia page as it is both the legal and biological terminology, gives some feminine agency whilst also not explicitly excluding other minorities. Dashing24 (talk) 07:44, 26 August 2022 (UTC)

Tennessee to Black

At the Tennessee state capital of Nashville, it is now past 00:01 CST on 2022-08-25. Presumably, the total abortion ban is now in effect (per Topic #51 above). Will also change the legend (per Topic #71 above). Should also watch Idaho today (and North Dakota in 24 hours or so) Brom20110101 (talk) 05:01, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

I see you updated the map, Loki, thanks for that Brom20110101 (talk) 05:05, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

Idaho Ban Blocked

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/08/24/politics/idaho-abortion-ban-doj/index.html

The total Idaho ban was blocked however it will need a black border. Dashing24 (talk) 05:40, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

The ban was not blocked, rather a federal judge ruled that the ban must have the federally-required exception for emergency abortion access. President Loki (talk) 05:47, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

My mistake, sorry!!! Dashing24 (talk) 06:41, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

Incorrect Template on Abortion Law and Abortion in the US pages

For some reason the templates on the main pages did not update itself and has outdated map using old colour scheme and ID and TN shown incorrectly. Please can someone update and fix. Dashing24 (talk) 06:44, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

It's probably just your cache. If you open the page in an incognito tab, you will see the correct revision. President Loki (talk) 07:57, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

I had the same issue. Clearing the cache helped on my end Brom20110101 (talk) 19:34, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

It now works for me as well. Dashing24 (talk) 05:46, 26 August 2022 (UTC)

Watch: North Dakota - August 26th

North Dakota's abortion ban is set to go into effect on August 26th, unless Judge Bruce Romanick grants an injunction blocking the ban. President Loki (talk) 08:01, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

The law has been temporarily blocked. President Loki (talk) 22:55, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

Change North Dakota to Gray

The only abortion clinic in North Dakota has moved to Minnesota, according to the Associated Press: https://apnews.com/article/abortion-lawsuits-north-dakota-fargo-79b6ff579c829b06e5d5159603e657f9 . Despite the ND abortion ban being blocked by a court, there are no longer providers present in North Dakota, as of 2022-08-26 (a case similar to Wisconsin). I will change North Dakota to gray. If you have reasoning otherwise, please change back and state that reasoning. Brom20110101 (talk) 20:01, 26 August 2022 (UTC)

Watch: West Virginia and South Carolina Abortion Bans

In SC, the state house passed a bill banning all abortions except for those caused by rape, incest or when the mother's life is at risk. https://apnews.com/article/abortion-health-legislature-south-carolina-05d4ddf7ab6818a3504b90e79bbc1387

In WV, the state house will most likely start a special session to pass abortion restrictions that will satisfy the WV State Senate. https://www.cbsnews.com/pittsburgh/news/west-virginia-house-of-delegates-speaker-expected-to-call-for-special-session-on-abortion/ Dashing24 (talk) 16:56, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

thanks for sharing, those are important to know, will watch 83.136.182.246 03:51, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

The South Carolina Senate rejected the full ban but tightened restrictions on the existing 6-week ban which may soon go into effect. Dashing24 (talk) 10:11, 10 September 2022 (UTC)

The West Virginia Senate passed a new version of a ban. The House of Delegates must now approve the measure, alongside Gov. Jim Justice, to become law. Dashing24 (talk) 19:06, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

The House of Delegates already approved the measure. The only remaining step is for the governor to sign it, after which it will immediately become law. President Loki (talk) 21:32, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

At the time of posting the House of Delegates was yet to approve. I would expect Gov. Jim Justice to soon sign it into law. Dashing24 (talk) 05:38, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

This source says the law goes into effect 90 days from the time of signing.

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/3641548-west-virginia-legislature-approves-abortion-ban-headed-to-governor-for-signature/ Dashing24 (talk) 05:39, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

So we must verify when it actually goes into effect. Dashing24 (talk) 05:42, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

I briefly looked through the bill, and it is stated that the bill is "in effect from passage", however it seems that certain sections of the bill only go into effect after 90 days. President Loki (talk) 04:28, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

New York Times reported two days ago that the WV law goes into effect immediately after the governor of WV signs it (which could happen today, or tomorrow): https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/13/us/west-virginia-abortion.html Brom20110101 (talk) 14:18, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

The South Carolina Supreme Court has taken up the abortion ban. President Loki (talk) 06:30, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for the helpful update, good to keep monitoring this one Brom20110101 (talk) 14:00, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

Watch: September 24th, AZ 15 week Abortion Ban and attempts to reinstate full ban

AZ AG Mark Brnovich is in the courts attempting to reinstate the territorial-era ban on aboritons. Additionally, the 15 week abortion ban will enter effect on the 24th September. https://eu.azcentral.com/story/opinion/op-ed/elviadiaz/2022/08/23/arizona-defend-1864-territorial-abortion-law-republicans-pay/7872708001/ https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/arizona-judge-hear-state-request-enforce-abortion-ban-88580236 https://www.azpm.org/p/headlines/2022/8/18/212537-the-future-of-arizonas-abortion-ban-is-back-in-a-tucson-court/ Dashing24 (talk) 17:28, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

A decision by Superior Court Judge Kellie Johnson regarding the 1864 abortion law is expected soon. President Loki (talk) 05:59, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Help: I cannot change the shade of gray, no matter what shade of gray I use, it turns out to be light

Please fix the issue above. Dashing24 (talk) 19:36, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

Done. Kwamikagami (talk) 06:56, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

It worked. How did you fix it (in case this issue arises again)? Brom20110101 (talk) 14:10, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

Help: Ohio Red Border

For some reason, despite using the same code, Ohio's border turns out weird. I fixed the grey but could anyone help fix the Ohio border. Thanksǃ (I fixed the grey buy reuploading the map, maybe when somebody does a red border correctly i can reupload it and it will work again.) Dashing24 (talk) 06:33, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

Done. Kwamikagami (talk) 06:55, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

Minnesota

Legalised until birth, map not woprking, someone needs to update. https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/minnesota/articles/2023-01-27/minnesota-senate-debates-more-protection-for-abortion-rights https://apnews.com/article/abortion-politics-health-minnesota-state-government-257b4008b4369a2224ceb432a84af92f https://twitter.com/GovTimWalz/status/1619350477824741379?cxt=HHwWhsDS2cGri_ksAAAA Dashing24 (talk) 08:39, 29 January 2023 (UTC)

Not showing on the main page Dashing24 (talk) 09:16, 29 January 2023 (UTC)

It now works. Dashing24 (talk) 11:30, 29 January 2023 (UTC)

@Dashing24: The law in Minnesota specifies that abortion is permitted for any reason before "potential viability", defined as the second half of the gestational period,[17] and after that point only in case of risk to the woman's life or health.[18] In 1976, a court ruled that the "potential viability" limit was unconstitutional, but allowed a limit at actual viability.[19] Some scholars claim that this judicial decision technically invalidated the whole section of the law so there would be no gestational limit at all, but the government of Minnesota, medical providers and various other sources conclude that the legal limit remains at actual viability.[20]

The Protect Reproductive Options Act, which was enacted today, is only a general declaration of rights and it doesn't alter the existing law that specifies the gestational limit.[21] In fact the new Act doesn't practically change anything,[22] and the governor has declared that the legal limit remains at viability even after the new Act. Opponents of the Act claim that it legalizes abortion until birth, but this is a dubious conclusion. I find it better to rely on what the government says about its own law. Heitordp (talk) 21:57, 31 January 2023 (UTC)

Per the 'abortion law' thread on WP-en, the new MN law doesn't change the gestational limit. Even if we want to argue about what the legal implications are, in practice nothing has changed. The debate we're seeing in the papers is about what parts of the old law are in effect, and our main source Guttmacher has already evaluated that. Though worth watching to see if they'll change MN in their next update. Kwamikagami (talk) 02:04, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

Agreed--we should wait for Guttmacher to update before modifying MN Brom20110101 (talk) 05:14, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

I would counter that with the fact amendments banning abortions after viability has been voted down and the fact the PRO Act doesn’t establish a gestational limit. Dashing24 (talk) 08:39, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

However it could well be that the old law on gestational limit hasn’t been repealed Dashing24 (talk) 08:41, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

I found that the PRO Act recognises “reproductive freedom” in all stages of pregnancy which would include late term abortions. However the Legislatire hasn’t repealed existing restrictions creating a legally confusing situation. Dashing24 (talk) 08:49, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

Reading through source given by Heiterdop https://casetext.com/case/hodgson-v-lawson the court indeed declared the potential viability limit unconstitutional but it also held the law unconstitutional and thus the state would have to establish a new law within the confines of the ruling but it has not yet done so. Finally as the PRO Acts says reproductive healthcare is protected in al stages of pregnancy I reason a light Green category would be more appropriate. Dashing24 (talk) 09:04, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

https://www.health.state.mn.us/people/womeninfants/abortion/index.html

Minnesota Government Website page on abortion also doesn’t say that the state has a gestational limit. In Doe v Gomez hypotheticals on viability was raised in accordance with Roe v Wade but also didn’t cite any state statue. Dashing24 (talk) 09:09, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

Another source https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/253505/minnesota-senate-sends-far-reaching-abortion-bill-to-governor-s-desk Dashing24 (talk) 09:17, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

Except for Guttmatcher and Abortion Finder I found no statue or website stating abortions are limited until viability. They mostly say that abortion is simply legal as it does in states like Vermont, New Jersey or Oregon where there are no viability limits. Dashing24 (talk) 09:24, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

Doe v Gomez touched on Roe v Wade and it’s restrictions however it ruled that on the state level that the fundamental right to privacy protects abortion and thus it is legal in all stages. Dashing24 (talk) 09:25, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

To conclude, the website of the Minnesota Attorney General states that 'In its 1995 decision in Doe v. Gomez, the Minnesota Supreme Court found that the Minnesota Constitution guarantees the right of every Minnesotan to terminate a pregnancy. The Court explicitly found that the Minnesota Constitution offers broader protection than the United States Constitution of a person’s fundamental right to make reproductive healthcare choices without state interference. This remains the case despite the U.S. Supreme Court's June 2022 decision in Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health Organization. Minnesotans' rights continue to be protected,' and also doesn't state a gestational minimum age (which is a fundamental piece of information) as Doe v. Gomez protections are broader than that of the US Constitution and thus there is no gestational age as that right is protected throughout the pregnancy.

https://www.ag.state.mn.us/abortionrights/

Overall, all sources (except for Guttmatcher and Abortion Finder) establish the Minnesota doesn't have a viability limit. Rather there is a legally confusing situation with various officials confused and sources 21 and 22 confirm this. My interpretation of source 21 (given by Heitordp) confirms my opinion that it is legal until birth by statue and that the Legislature hasn't passed a bill reinstating the viability standard. The argument on viability is moot since in the original statue there was no law on viability just potential viability which was stuck down. Source 22 largely says that in practice (de facto) abortions aren't peformed after viability but there is no clear statue banning abortions after viability. The situation is unclear but leans towards allowed late term abortions due to Doe and PRO Act protecting abortions at any stage, something multiple sources have confirmed. Welcome to hear other opinions. For the map, I will return to the original map as it includes the correction of New York State, but Minnesota will be subject to change. Dashing24 (talk) 10:11, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

And opinion of Renewl1 'MN law explicitly removes viability standard, amendments to add it were voted down' is largely true based on my sources, the PRO Act protects reproductive care at any stage (that is what it said in the bill). Dashing24 (talk) 10:13, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

It sounds like there's evidence MN has no limits, according to Dashing24's research. Do you counter Kwami? Others? Should we wait for Guttmacher to update? Brom20110101 (talk) 05:25, 3 February 2023 (UTC)

No. We're trying to interpret the law when it's not clear what the law is. The authorities in MN disagree with what Dashing is saying. The sources I've seen claiming there are now no limits are all overtly anti-abortion and have an axe to grind. I don't think it's unreasonable to wait for a RS to evaluate the situation. Guttmacher is just the one we've been most relying on. Yes, they often lag, but usually when there's not much change to report. Perhaps there silence here is an indication they don't see a change. (Or perhaps they're just no longer timely.) Kwamikagami (talk) 04:49, 4 February 2023 (UTC)

Guttmatcher often lags. Dashing24 (talk) 07:10, 3 February 2023 (UTC)

Well I often try to find multiple sources wand except for the Catholic source I don’t see any have an anti-abortion stance. Note I also sourced the official state website and the Attorney General of Minnesota as well as some analytical sources that you ought to take a look at. Dashing24 (talk) 07:34, 4 February 2023 (UTC)

Can you provide a source about ‘officials in Minnesota’. I am using government websites whilst you are just constantly using one phrase. Dashing24 (talk) 07:35, 4 February 2023 (UTC)

Kwami so are analytical paragraphs on Doe v. Gomez, the federal court decision of 1976, the Center of Reproductive Rights and the office of Keith Ellison and the Minnesota state website all anti-abortion? I just added the Catholic source to back it up. Dashing24 (talk) 07:38, 4 February 2023 (UTC)

Don’t rush to conclusion and actually read the sources (except for the Catholic one) to try and Hague the situation. And then sceptics for that one phrase I am yet to hear evidence of a viability limit. Currently it is 2-1 Dashing24 (talk) 07:39, 4 February 2023 (UTC)

No 3-1 for changing Minnesota to light green. Me, Brom and Renewal1 for and Kwamimangani against. 82.35.68.117 18:35, 4 February 2023 (UTC)

That post was from dashing24 not logged in. 82.35.68.117 18:36, 4 February 2023 (UTC)

Guttmacher updated Feb 01 and they show MN at viability. Kwamikagami (talk) 09:49, 5 February 2023 (UTC)

I see that. They would probably have a better sense of things. I'm on the side of keeping MN at viability in line with their recommendation. Brom20110101 (talk) 11:22, 5 February 2023 (UTC)

Wait. Guttmatcher last updated in June 2022. Also their ‘facts’ aren’t sourced. https://www.guttmacher.org/fact-sheet/state-facts-about-abortion-minnesota Guttmatcher doesn’t source any of their facts and are sometimes even incorrect. Point is, Guttmatcher hasn’t updated Minnesota. Additionally some of the sources that are pro-choice like the Center of Reproductive Rights source their content and have Minnesota at no limit. Why didn’t anyone actually look at the sources before commenting? (You can skip the Catholic one) I initially thought MN is viability but after research I changed my opinion. All facts are sourced and referred to law. Dashing24 (talk) 06:36, 6 February 2023 (UTC)

Based on the sources mentioned in the thread, Minnesota law specifies that abortion is allowed before "potential viability," defined as the second half of pregnancy, and after that point only if the woman's life or health is at risk. The Protect Reproductive Options Act has been enacted, which is a general declaration of rights but doesn't change the existing law specifying the gestational limit. According to the sources, the legal limit remains at viability, but the fundamental right to privacy protects abortion in all stages in the state. However, there is a lack of information on a specific statute or website stating a gestational limit for abortion in Minnesota. --(chatGPT) 2600:1014:A104:37D2:398C:A5E3:2C9E:B37E 08:25, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

It isn’t a white pill and it is unclear. However the law on potential viability has been blocked by the court and a new gestational limit has not been established by statue which is the situation. 2600:1014 what is your position? Dashing24 (talk) 16:08, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

A good summatove source from MinnPost. https://www.minnpost.com/state-government/2023/01/some-dflers-want-to-ensure-there-are-no-legal-restrictions-on-late-term-abortions-in-minnesota/

Walz now implies that there is no viability standard and pro abortion rights supporters argues it also doesn't exist (unlike some assertions here). Sources are included. Currently there isn't consensus here on what MN should be. Dashing24 (talk) 17:33, 9 February 2023 (UTC)

No Clinics Change

The map is based on the legality of abortions not on the availability. Abortions can still be provided by telemedicine (e.g. Guam) or at a hospital thus showing a state or territory grey just because they don't have clinic but not displaying their legal limit defeats the purpose of the map. A new map on availability of clinics could be made. Dashing24 (talk) 11:23, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

You can't get an abortion over the phone. There is no abortion in Guam unless you're admitted to a hospital. The same is true of Texas. Kwamikagami (talk) 09:56, 5 February 2023 (UTC)

But the map is on legal statue on abortion not general availability. Also abortion can be accessed in hospitals but also pills can be sent with or without guidance of telemedicine. Dashing24 (talk) 16:09, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

Watchː Guam

There are no clinics in Guam but abortions are legal by telemedicine, according to a ruling by a federal court. The current legal limit is at 13 weeks gestational age or LMP, https://reproductiverights.org/maps/state/guam/, following passage of the Woman's Reproductive Health Information Act. A heartbeat ban was passed by vetoed. However Guam AG announced that he will go to court to lift the injunction on Guam's total abortion ban. https://www.guampdn.com/news/moylan-ags-office-to-take-action-on-1990-abortion-ban-in-next-30-days/article_6abb031e-8d8c-11ed-8830-171faf582ff3.html This is something to watch for developments and should the ban go into effect a referendum would be held. Dashing24 (talk) 11:33, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

I tried to add a black border but it went wrong. Please edit. Dashing24 (talk) 10:36, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

I fixed it, but that turned Guam solid black because the border is at least half the width of the island. We could maybe do a thin border, but for that you'd want to get whoever created the borders to redo them for the islands. Kwamikagami (talk) 10:21, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

Wisconsin

The current consensus on many website and news articles is that WI's abortion ban went into effect something that the Attorney General disagrees with. Even the Governor admitted it went into effect and vowed to pardon providers if necessary and asked the legislature to initiate a referendum to repeal the ban, suggesting it is legally in effect. The fact there is litigation against the ban doesn't mean the situation is legally unclear. In many states with bans there is litigation but they aren't shown as legally unclear. Finally, Kaul apparently abandoned the lawsuit as he hasn't met the deadline and now WI's state leaders want a referendum to repeal the ban. Thus I think WI should be changed to black not only becuase the lawsuit is largely dormant but also because others states with active lawsuits aren't labelled as legally unclear. Plenty of sources state abortion is illegal and that is also admitted by state leaders and the legislature. https://www.wpr.org/heres-what-know-about-abortion-access-post-roe-wisconsin https://wisconsinexaminer.com/2023/01/24/how-are-wisconsin-women-doing-under-the-1849-abortion-ban/ https://content.govdelivery.com/accounts/WIGOV/bulletins/3432648 https://www.aclu-wi.org/en/news/how-abortion-changed-wisconsin-lives-better https://www.wuwm.com/2022-11-23/whats-next-in-the-fight-over-abortion-in-wisconsin https://www.supportwomenshealth.org/postroe.html https://www.findlaw.com/state/wisconsin-law/wisconsin-abortion-laws.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/us/abortion-laws-roe-v-wade.html https://reproductiverights.org/maps/abortion-laws-by-state/ Dashing24 (talk) 11:53, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

Guttmacher continues to show WI at 22 weeks LMP, with the caveat that "in Wisconsin, due to legal uncertainty around the status of the state's pre-Roe ban, providers have been forced to stop offering abortion care." This is why we agreed to format the map this way: we can't say whether abortion is or is not legal in WI, but we can say that you can't get an abortion there. Kwamikagami (talk)

Compromise Proposal to Long-Lasting Disputes and proposal to make map clearer

To replace Legally Unclear (keeping grey for no clinics is another discussion) we should replace those states with slashes of both potential restrictions. At present, this would apply to Wisconsin (full ban and 22 WK LMP) and Minnesota (viability and no limit) where we can all agree there is confusion and legal disputes. A footnote could be added to state that often the most restrictive restriction is enforced to avoid criminal litigation. This would show exactly what restrictions are in dispute and allow both prespectives to be shhown. I scavangehunted wikipedia maps on how this would look and this is an exampleː

This map is not from Wikipedia (I made that one from Mapcharts), Minnesota and Wisconsin would obviously need completley different colour of stripes but it shows an example. I don't remember exactly which maps but I saw plenty of examples on Wikipedia using those kind of stripes on maps. I'm not changing anything yet, just awaiting discussion. I would also like to hear opinion on the 'No Clinics Change.' Dashing24 (talk) 07:52, 11 February 2023 (UTC)

It's an interesting idea. As long as we can determine that the MN uncertainty exists in reality (not just in this discussion/talk thread), I would be open to including stripes. Brom20110101 (talk) 17:10, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

Firstly, it is also for Wisconsin and secondly in the Minnesota discussion their is a dispute on the sole colour. Nearly all commentators agree that there could actually be another restriction something that sources (a lot of them) confirm. Except for one, all of them are neutral or even pro choice. Dashing24 (talk) 07:21, 13 February 2023 (UTC)

On Minnesota, there is gridlock which needs to be eventually broken. Dashing24 (talk) 07:22, 13 February 2023 (UTC)

Watch: Nebraska

Nebraska is proposing another ban, that is 12 weeks LMP https://www.wowt.com/2023/05/09/nebraska-lawmakers-expected-debate-abortion-amendment/ (Merv Riepe's amendment was 14 weeks LMP). 86.17.88.194 18:15, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

North Carolina recently passed a 12 weeks LMP law. We might need to update the color key on the map to reflect the emergence of this 12-week category. Brom20110101 (talk) 02:52, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

Maine

https://www.pressherald.com/2023/06/22/maine-house-begins-emotional-debate-on-abortion-bill-then-delays-vote-2/. If this piece of legislation gets signed should Maine be added to allows until birth category. 86.17.88.194 17:30, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

Guam

Hi all! I am new to editing these types of maps and am trying to to change Guam to more accurately reflect the status there (please see the recent edits I made to the main article and the references linked there). Basically currently operative Guam law allows elective abortion up to 12 weeks LMP, and while there are no abortion providers resident on the island, at the moment the law allows doctors licensed to practice in Guam to prescribe abortion pills via telemedicine, and there are two doctors based in Hawaii who do so, so it seems inaccurate to me to have it grey colored on the map. There is also a near-total ban on the books that a federal court has blocked but which the Attorney General is relitigating in light of Dobbs.

Anyway long story short it seems that the coloring should be the same 12-week red that Nebraska and NC have, with a black outline; I have tried editing the SVG file a couple times but it won't come out right and I'm not sure why. If anyone with more skills than me could take a stab at it, or let me know what exactly I'm doing wrong, I'd appreciate it. Jfruh (talk) 15:43, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

I'm the person who added the outlining, lemme fix it. (Edit: Fixed! Thanks for bringing this up.) The Quirky Kitty (talk) 20:04, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for making the change! Jfruh (talk) 22:24, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

It appears from the refs in that article that the doctor needs to provide the patient with printed material in person. There's nothing there about telemedicine from Hawaii, only flying to Hawaii for out-of-state care. There's also nothing about the total ban being resurrected. Since we don't appear to have any sources for this change, I reverted it. Kwamikagami (talk) 23:55, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

This is the article In question: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/26/us/guam-abortion.html

"There are two doctors who are licensed in Guam and willing to provide abortions, and both are based in Hawaii, where they can see patients through video calls and prescribe abortion pills. That could change if the Ninth Circuit, a federal appeals court, reinstates a territorial law that would require women to see a doctor in person in order to obtain pills."

"A streak of anti-abortion sentiment runs through Guam, and there are other attempts to further restrict the procedure. Mr. Moylan, the attorney general, is fighting in federal court to try to revive a 1990 law that banned nearly all abortions but was blocked by a federal judge. In the meantime, the legislature passed a bill last year that would prohibit most abortions after six weeks of pregnancy. It was vetoed by Gov. Lou Leon Guerrero, a Democrat, a nurse and the island’s first female governor." --Jfruh (talk) 00:04, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

But then there is the later (2 August) article Federal Appeals Court Further Limits Abortion Access on Guam. Byline: "The court ruled that women seeking abortion pills must first see a doctor in person." The ruling was specifically against those two doctors, and goes into force today. Now, it is possible that women could see a consulting doctor in Guam who would authorize one of the Hawaiian doctors to provide via telemedicine, but we have no source that has occurred. Until it does, we're left with a law that abortion is legal up to 13 weeks if a woman sees a doctor in person, and no indication that that is possible.

Per the article, "A federal appeals court ruled late Tuesday that women on the American territory of Guam who are seeking medication abortion must first have an in-person consultation with a doctor, which is likely to make access to the procedure on the remote island even more difficult. Abortion-rights supporters said that since there were no doctors on Guam who provided abortions, the ruling created a significant obstacle for women seeking the procedure. The only two doctors licensed to provide abortions on the U.S. territory are based in Hawaii, an eight-hour flight away. Until now, those doctors have been prescribing pills over video calls. But in a unanimous ruling, the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals said other doctors on the island could provide in-person consultations, even if those physicians did not want to provide abortions themselves."

If there are such "other doctors", we should be able to confirm that. We have several sources describing hospitals and clinics that refuse to refer women elsewhere. Kwamikagami (talk) 01:17, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

The map's fully protected now. We might want to request it be unprotected, because getting an admin to update an active map in a reasonable amount of time is difficult. Another option is to create a duplicate map and start using that. [date's off, this reply is from late august] Kwamikagami (talk) August 2023 (UTC)

Oops -- screwed up the metadata(?)

Being not particularly used to editing these types of files, I seem to have cut-and-pasted the entire SVG code into ... a metadata section or something? It's not visible when you embed the map on Wikipedia but you can see it on the main image page here, and now I can't figure out how to revert to the previous version. Huge apologies, but would love if someone could fix this! Jfruh (talk) 22:27, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

It was somehow pasted onto the page. Not a problem with the upload. Kwamikagami (talk) 23:57, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

Montana (Edit request)

The map is incorrect where it says that a 15 week ban is blocked in Montana (there is a 20 week ban that is still blocked). Rather, the most common abortion procedure after 15 weeks was banned (and then enjoined by a court) but not all abortions after 15 weeks. Just because a procedure is the most common, it doesn't meen all abortions after 15 weeks are banned. As such I request the border of Montana be restored to the dark purple (#663399) and the key be updated to include this. I request that because there is another enjoined ban on all abortions after 20 weeks. https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/analysis-opinion/montana-supreme-court-expands-abortion-access https://www.ktvh.com/news/68th-session/gianforte-signs-series-of-bills-tightening-montana-abortion-restrictions https://www.plannedparenthood.org/about-us/newsroom/press-releases/montana-court-blocks-new-abortion-ban Dashing24 (talk) 08:37, 28 August 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the info -- I made the previous edit, based on news sources that seem to be in error. Unfortunately I can't update the map at the moment because it's been locked to everyone for administrators. --Jfruh (talk) 17:46, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

Does this still need to be corrected? Kwamikagami (talk) 05:58, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Can the map be unlocked?

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Kwamikagami

Map is currently locked to all but administrators -- not sure why, it doesn't seem to have been much in dispute. Both Montana (see above) and Wisconsin need to be updated. --Jfruh (talk) 17:48, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

I requested protection, because you and others were edit-warring, and the administrator concurred. Abortion is a contentious topic, and you could be subject to sanctions if you continue your disruption. So go ahead and file your edit requests. Hint: if you format them properly, you have a better chance of attracting someone who wants to render assistance. Elizium23 (talk) 22:31, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

I apologize if I contributed to an "edit war", which really seemed like a back and forth with @Kwamikagami over a misunderstanding of a changing set of facts on my part -- I do not believe it was "contentious" per se in that it involved a disagreement on the topic of abortion itself. At any rate, there are a number of small changes that should be made to the map in short order, and it feels like Wisconsin in particular needs to be updated. I guess I will make edit requests in a separate section. Jfruh (talk) 01:36, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

I agree with Jfruh here. We (Jfruh and I) were "edit-warring" only in the sense that we were updating the article per the most recent RS's, and we had different (and somewhat contradictory) sources. This map should be unblocked, because getting admins to update anything is nearly hopeless. The alternative is for us to create a new map that's exactly the same as this one apart for being up-to-date, and leaving this one as an orphan, when we have enough orphaned files as it is. Kwamikagami (talk) 04:41, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

The edit-warring should be replaced by (a) proposing a change in the Discussion thread and (b) having a constructive conversation about the possible change before the change occurs. For example, consider topic #23 above, where several contributors and I discussed a color scheme change and collectively arrived at a consensus before finalizing the change.

I would also like to request that the page's protection be removed. Can individuals who continue to edit-war be prevented from editing this specific file? I am not happy with the edit-warring and how it has prevented other contributors and myself from helping to keep this file updated. Brom20110101 (talk) 22:59, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

@Yann: Please unprotect, unless you're willing to update as needed. Kwamikagami (talk) 04:47, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

@Kwamikagami, @Jfruh, would you please also use edit (upload) summaries, and discussion on the talk page, to explain yourselves so that nobody mistakes you again for edit-warriors in a highly contentious topic? Elizium23 (talk) 04:58, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

I include upload summaries every time I upload but happy to add more detail if you want. Should we be outlining the reasons for every edit on the talk page as well? Jfruh (talk) 05:10, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

I think at this point it might be necessary to create a sister map because I doubt an administrator will soon unblock the map and the backlog is massive. 86.17.88.194 16:50, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

Yeah maybe. The edit war people should be blocked from this file, and that's it 2600:1014:A020:BEF3:C532:D46E:EB10:A185 14:50, 23 September 2023 (UTC)

If you follow the discussion here, we weren't actually edit warring -- we were assumed to be doing so because our edit summaries weren't appearing where the user who locked the file expected to find them. Jfruh (talk) 21:40, 23 September 2023 (UTC)

Ah, I see what I was missing before. "Reasons" or "descriptions" given at the time of upload/revert are not placed in the file's edit history, but they are visible in the image upload history. So I was wrong, and I see you've all given descriptions there. Sorry. Elizium23 (talk) 18:14, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

Edit request: Wisconsin, Montana, and a 20-week color

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Kwamikagami

There are three distinct changes necessary on the map that are interrelated:

• While the overall legal landscape in Wisconsin is not resolved, a trial judge in Dane County has ruled that the 1849 law on the books is not a ban on consensual abortions performed by medical professionals, and clinics in two counties whose DA's have said they would not prosecute based on the 1849 law are now performing abortions up to 20 weeks. There are other county DAs who say they would prosecute, however, and clinics in those counties remain closed.
• The Montana ban currently enjoined by the courts is a 20-week ban, not a 15-week ban as colored on the map. This is an error I introduced based on erroneous reporting: Montana recently passed a ban on dilation & extraction procedures, which are the most common methods used on abortions after 15 weeks, but not an actual time-based ban; if that ban, which is also stayed by the crouts, went into effect, abortions from 15-20 weeks could still be performed using other procedures.
• There is not color currently in our spectrum representing 20 weeks, which we would need in order to properly indicate the situations outlined above. (My instinct for Wisconsin would be to have a 20-week fill with a total ban border until the current court battle is resolved).

I do think in particular the Wisconsin situation should be updated sooner than later, as the map is very misleading on this point now. Jfruh (talk) 01:45, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

Post Roe Wisconsin law allows abortions up to 22 not 20 weeks of gestation. For Montana we can use the colour that was used for North Carolina prior to it joining the 12 week category. 86.17.88.194 16:45, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

Do you have a source on the 22 weeks? Would be very helpful -- I've poked around a bit but to no avail. Jfruh (talk) 19:34, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

Judge rules Wisconsin's 1849 law does not ban abortions

Abortions resume in Wisconsin after 15 months of legal uncertainty RandoWikiContributer (talk) 06:10, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

Please update Ohio (and unlock)

Can someone eliminate the "heartbeat bill" border for Ohio? With the passage of Quesion 1 today, the court case is now moot.

In addition, as the discussion above makes clear, the decision to lock the file was based on a misunderstanding (some edits were viewed as edit warring because the admin who locked the file didn't see the upload summaries). Can we get it unlocked? --Jfruh (talk) 09:10, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

Is anyone going to update Ohio?

Unfortunately I don't know how to edit these pictures, so I can't do it. Malcolmmwa (talk) 09:49, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

Topic #46 above, entitled "Instructions for Changing A State's Color", includes a set of steps you can take to modify the file. Hopefully that helps Brom20110101 (talk) 22:13, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

Ohio??

Issue 1 takes effect December 7, but there is no reason is seemingly delaying updating the map. Does anybody have access so we can change it to reflect viability?? Dancingtudorqueen (talk) 18:12, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

Done. Kwamikagami (talk) 05:56, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

There is a mistake. Ohio's constitution protects abortion up to VIABILITY not 22 weeks; hence it should be shaded the lighter blue. Dashing24 (talk) 10:54, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

Help

I tried updating the map however it says 'Found scriptable element "script" in the uploaded SVG file.' How do I solve this issue Dashing24 (talk) 13:54, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

Dashing, you've changed it plenty of times before. Did something fundamental change about the SVG file in the past few months? Or, are you maybe adding a new structural element (e.g., some kind of new feature to the map), instead of only a color change? Trying to understand to see if there's a way I could help Brom20110101 (talk) 23:18, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

Minnesota (2024)

Minnesota’s abortion law allows abortions at all stages of gestation. https://www.kff.org/womens-health-policy/state-indicator/gestational-limit-abortions/?currentTimeframe=0&sortModel=%7B%22colId%22:%22Location%22,%22sort%22:%22asc%22%7D#note-2 Dancingtudorqueen (talk) 06:48, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

For Minnesota, the three sources currently associated with the map are mostly consistent. At the listed URLs, the sources give the following current state of abortion in Minnesota:

1.) New York Times (NYT): “No gestational limit” New York Times Link

2.) Guttmacher Institute: No mention of Minnesota Guttmacher Link

3.) KFF: “Abortion legal beyond 22 weeks LMP” KFF Link

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Dancingtudorqueen, your additional KFF source (re-listed here: Second KFF Link) lists “N/A” for Minnesota, which is also listed for several other states (e.g., Oregon) that definitely have no gestational limit. Pooling the sources together, sources suggest Minnesota has no limit. The map’s colors should be based on the three listed sources, and your listed source comes from the same organization (KFF). I vote we change Minnesota to no gestational limit since NYT, Guttmacher, and KFF all point to this.

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In addition, drawing from a fourth source, the Center for Reproductive Rights states Minnesota has no limit (see here: Center for Reproductive Rights Link). Brom20110101 (talk) 23:09, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

It has been over two weeks, and I have not heard back. I believe I have waited long enough for others to comment. I will change Minnesota from its current color to green, per Dancingtudorqueen's suggestion and the points made above. Brom20110101 (talk) 03:04, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

Well, forget the last comment. I apparently do not have permission to update the file. What has happened since I was gone? I have updated this file since Summer 2022 (see some of the original Discussion topics above). Why can I do so no longer? Brom20110101 (talk) 03:16, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

In addition to Minnesota, I found other sources which say the same for New Hampshire, Maine, New York, Maryland, Michigan, and Washington, all of which are excluded from this map. As a resident of Washington I know our laws prohibit the government from regulating abortion before the point of fetal viability, but they allow the government to set restrictions in the third trimester. However, no such laws have ever been passed, meaning abortion is legal after that point, although it isn't enshrined as a right like it is before then. As for New York, they removed abortion from their criminal code back in 2019. I believe Maine passed a law in 2023 to expand access in later stages, and I know Michigan repealed their abortion laws in November of 2022 through a vote. I don't quite know what the story in Maryland is, but I remember New Hampshire briefly passed a 24 week ban but it was later repealed by a Democrat controlled legislature.

https://states.guttmacher.org/policies/

https://abortionfinder.org/abortion-guides-by-state/ 75.27.37.89 02:25, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

Keep in mind that this map lists regulatory mechanisms outside of the law. For example, Canada has no laws about abortion at all. They were overturned by the Supreme Court and have yet to be replaced by anything, and likely won't in the foreseeable future. However, Canada has indirect abortion laws set by legally recognized medical organizations. No province allows physicians to perform an abortion after the point of fetal viability without a valid reason, and physicians are required to comply with these regulations in order to keep their licence. Although I would be curious to know why such regulatory bodies are not listed in the limits for these US states. 75.27.37.89 02:31, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

New Hampshire never changed their 24 week abortion law: https://apnews.com/article/abortion-new-hampshire-3ef87efabac8ae4cfdfe6cd645cf3254 (their legislature is also not controlled by Democrats)

Maine de facto has no limit but it must it is de jure not elective, it must be deemed medically necessary by a doctor.

Similar is in New York. Maryland and Washington have a proper limit.

Michigan currently has no limit and that needs to be changed in the map. 86.17.88.194 07:13, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

Ohio and Michigan

Ohio’s constitutional amendment protects abortion up to viability not 22 weeks. This needs to be changed in the map. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/November_2023_Ohio_Issue_1

michigan has no restrictions on abortion as all were repealed by the legislature and no limit was passed to replace the repealed ban. 86.17.88.194 07:15, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

Changed both. Kwamikagami (talk) 04:06, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

Today's USNews article contradicts Ohio, but I'll leave it to others to reconcile. Kwamikagami (talk) 22:45, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

florida (from talk at WP-en)

According to this, FL's ban is at 18 weeks, not 15 -- no, that's 15 weeks, not 18 -- but will become 6 weeks on ca. May 01 (assuming nothing intervenes). We should revisit in a month. Kwamikagami (talk) 03:03, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Arizona

In accordance with today's order from the Arizona Supreme Court, effective 14 days from today (April 23, 2024), Arizona's ban on abortions dating from 1864 will come into effect. The map should be updated once that ruling comes into effect. Dashing24 (talk) 17:34, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

Source: https://twitter.com/AliceOllstein/status/1777744471951544672 (Politico reporter) Firestar464 (talk) 18:11, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

Yes, thanks for the note. And to be clear, the court put its ruling on hold for 14 days, and there is an additional 45-day delay before enforcement. This is all assuming that the lower court it was sent back to does not question the constitutionality of the 1864 law. Once the law is in effect, I will update the map. Svenskbygderna (talk) 01:58, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

Puerto Rico

Puerto Rico is colored green, indicating abortion is legally unrestricted. However, they have a criminal law which prohibits elective abortions entirely. [23]https://reproductiverights.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/pub_fac_abortion_pr.pdf Malcolmmwa (talk) 17:51, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Arizona

Should we remove the black border for Arizona since the 15 week ban is repealed? Dancingtudorqueen (talk) 01:25, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

Repeal takes effect August 31, 2024 which is 90 days following end of legislative session on May 31, 2024. Dashing24 (talk) 06:46, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

Maryland

No limit per USNews today.[24] Also 2 refs in WP-en article. Kwamikagami (talk) 22:42, 14 May 2024 (UTC)