Commons talk:Picture of the Year/2019/Help

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Picture of the Year 2019
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POTY 2019 || Introduction – Rules – Discussion – Translations – Committee – Help || R1 Candidates – Gallery || R2 Gallery || Results

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About the gallery page[edit]

In the gallery page there is an error message, more specifically it says 

 [[Commons:Picture of the Year/2019/R1/Gallery/dummy|(((Error in Module:POTY. Message not found: cat-dummy)))]] (325)

to the genre "Objects and miscellaneous". Can anyone fix that? Thank you (I don't speak English well, so forgive me for any mistakes). --Čïåø57 15:53, 24 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Zhuyifei1999: The issue is the “dummy” header on Commons:Picture of the Year/2019/Candidates (warning: huge page!, see also the much smaller Commons:Picture of the Year/2019/R1/Gallery/dummy), which has no “translation” (I wouldn’t call Module:POTY/i18n a translation as it doesn’t contain any language but English…). It seems like some testing thing. Is it still needed? Will it be needed during the voting? If yes, the translation key should be created for it. If no, please don’t forget cleaning it up before the voting begins. —Tacsipacsi (talk) 16:56, 24 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It's a temporary category for unsorted images. They will be sorted before R1. --Zhuyifei1999 (talk) 17:54, 24 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I have "fixed" the issue by creating MediaWiki:Com-poty-cat-dummy and updating the Lua code: Special:Diff/301361804/389695508. --jdx Re: 18:57, 24 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Videos[edit]

We seem to have a situation where there are only 3 videos in the category, meaning at most 1 won't be a finalist. That doesn't seem ideal. Perhaps some small categories should be combined next time? Certainly for videos, COM:FVC was launched part-way through 2019, so maybe next year the video section of FPC can just be replaced with a section populated by all of the FVs? — Rhododendrites talk |  18:37, 11 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Good point. However, I'm no sure having a section for videos that would take practically forever to watch through is a good idea... How about merging to misc. category? @Christian Ferrer: Since you do most of the sorting, what do you think? --Zhuyifei1999 (talk) 20:12, 11 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Presumably moving forward there will be 0 videos promoted via FPC, and non-video animations are pretty rare (and might also be best for FVC anyway), so if it's going to be strictly FPs, then yeah combining into misc makes sense. But there are enough FVs promoted that next year it would probably make sense to just make it the FV category. It would take forever to watch the videos regardless of which category they're in, so they're unlikely to get many votes, but it could still be useful to determine "FV of the year" or somesuch without running a whole separate event. — Rhododendrites talk |  21:00, 11 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Ouch. We totally missed the fact that Commons:Featured videos have been created last year and that some videos have been promoted via FP process and the others via FV process. As far I know, in the past, the featured videos were POTY candidates as the other featured medias. We should have integrated all the videos promoted in 2019. Now I think it's too late, and maybe all the videos that should have been candidates in this year competion should be candidate in 2020. @Zhuyifei1999: About merging to misc? on the principle yes, but do you mean in our running competition? Christian Ferrer (talk) 21:21, 11 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
if we find a solution for the other videos (the 2019 videos from Commons:Featured videos), then maybe we should withdraw the two videos currently candidates so that all videos have the same treatment, + we move the remaining animation to misc. Christian Ferrer (talk) 21:27, 11 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think our current system will hold if there are a hundred videos. Voting for so many videos without watching them is extremely difficult, so no matter what you do if a hundred videos come in it won't be unbiased between media types. So maybe a separate "video of the year"? What about Commons:Featured_sound_candidates? --Zhuyifei1999 (talk) 23:21, 11 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Possibilities:
  • We do nothing
  • We move the three candidates from the section videos to misc.
  • As all videos are not candidates, we withdraw the two videos currently candidates. The community wil be free to do, or not, another contest with songs and videos. And we move the remaining animation to misc.
As a Committee member I'm ready to endorse the three possibilities, but I tend to preffer the third one that is listed above because it is the more fair possibility (all the videos in the same basket). Christian Ferrer (talk) 06:05, 12 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I agree :) @Steinsplitter and -revi: thoughts? --Zhuyifei1999 (talk) 06:16, 12 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Agree with Christian and Zhuyifei1999, the third option makes sense to me. --Steinsplitter (talk) 15:16, 12 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

✓ Done --Zhuyifei1999 (talk) 15:28, 12 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Concerns on german signpost[edit]

Hello, Henriette Fiebig raised privacy concerns because it is not obvious that the !voting is public. See de:Wikipedia_Diskussion:Kurier#Bild_des_Jahres. Best --Steinsplitter (talk) 13:23, 12 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'm more and more inclined to make this crypto-backed :( --Zhuyifei1999 (talk) 15:28, 12 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I added a note, so it should be clear. --Steinsplitter (talk) 15:17, 16 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Wrong category[edit]

Just realize that this set is in the wrong category. It's in paintings, textiles, and works on paper, but they are most definitely graphics/illustrations formatted like a poster rather than a picture of a poster. Seems like they should be in with the illustrations (or otherwise astronomy)? Speaking of this one, it seems like the voting process isn't really well equipped for sets. It's not really intuitive to click through them, with a tiny indicator just above or below the image. Since they're all FPs, why not just treat them separately or otherwise have a separate category for sets? — Rhododendrites talk |  19:04, 12 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Some sets are quite similar. I don't think doubling / tripling / in this case, nonupling its a set's chance to get POTY is a good idea. Creating categories also has the issue like in #Videos where sets can be somewhat unpopulated, unless each image in the set are different candidates, in which case, I'd imagine that a particularly good set would absolutely dominate the category, affecting the "top 2 in each category" R2 eligibility rule.
Regarding this image, I think it looks more like fictional artwork than "Maps, diagrams and illustrations". No? --Zhuyifei1999 (talk) 00:52, 13 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Zhuyifei1999: Yes I agree, it seems fit within "Maps, diagrams and illustrations", my fault, it's me who have sorted this set, I was thinking it was images of old posters (work on papers). But is it no too late to change now? Christian Ferrer (talk) 20:02, 14 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think it's too late. Your call :) --Zhuyifei1999 (talk) 20:19, 14 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Then ok, move it. Christian Ferrer (talk) 20:23, 14 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

✓ Done --Zhuyifei1999 (talk) 20:30, 14 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sculptures[edit]

Zhuyifei1999, thank you for all your work on this. I'm happy with the categorisations (unlike in some previous years), but I do have a suggestion for a tweak in future years. The 'Sculptures' category is rather underpopulated this year, with 12 pictures. What if its scope were expanded to 'Sculptures, coins and medals'? (The latter two types of object are currently at 'Objects, shells and miscellaneous', which has 68 pictures.) Ham II (talk) 10:59, 14 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

LGTM. For next year. @Christian Ferrer: (Sorry for pinging you so much) any opinions on this and the above section? --Zhuyifei1999 (talk) 19:40, 14 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
After the event that we just had with the videos I was thinking myself to a kind of rules/principle: "if there is not enough images [example a minimum of 20 images, or some other arbitrary number] in a category then this category should be merged in another category, and in the case that there is no adequate category then it should be merged with misc.". Therefore yes I agree, next year we can try 'Sculptures, coins and medals'. Christian Ferrer (talk) 19:58, 14 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Shells?[edit]

Shouldn’t animal shells be under Other animals? There are other skeletons under there. --Awkwafaba (talk) 13:31, 16 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Historically, they have always been arranged as such, maybe we can consider other possibilities for the next editions. Christian Ferrer (talk) 13:41, 16 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Question from Kmtextor[edit]

Again, there is no announcement for the voting on the German Main Page. I came across the English Main Page by accident — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kmtextor (talk • contribs) 2020-03-20T16:01:02‎ (UTC)

You mean Hauptseite? I think the main pages are independent for about anything besides the frame. @Steinsplitter: any ideas if it's possible to, and if we should, make the announcement visible on every language main page here? --Zhuyifei1999 (talk) 18:00, 20 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Done. --Steinsplitter (talk) 18:09, 20 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. But unfortunately the final round is again not advertised on the German Main Page, I came across it on the English Page Kmtextor (talk) 11:07, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Page displaying in en only[edit]

While I finished translation, how come Rules page only displays in English?

1) When I tap on the thick black menu bar, the one you slide and choose *Rules*, then no problem (it doesn’t have language selector either);

2) But when you tap the other menu bar, the fixed one with pale yellow background color above body text, it jumps to /en page where there is no languages selector.

One more request: the top black menu bar could be improved to show characters in much larger size (possibly in bolder font as well); readability is not enough I am afraid.

I have set my preference and disp lang to ja, but it does not work; you have languages tag ok as I see in source mode... --Omotecho (talk) defined menu bars and actions 10:01, 21 March 2020 (UTC) // 09:48, 21 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Omotecho: The pale yellow one stays always on the language of the page you’re currently on (if possible, i.e. the translation in that language exists; otherwise it falls back to your interface language, and if even that doesn’t exist, it falls back to English). This means that once you managed to get to the Japanese page, you’ll stay in Japanese-language pages, even if your interface language is not Japanese. (This was my design choice, and I still think it’s a more consistent user experience than the one that’s used in the black-dark yellow bar, although it should have been applied everywhere, including the black-yellow bar.) The language select bar is collapsed by default on desktop, but it’s always visible on mobile. (The template hiding the bar was created by Steinsplitter; I don’t agree with this choice.) --Tacsipacsi (talk) 13:11, 21 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Best is to change the interface language. Page language won't affect the !voting tool. --Steinsplitter (talk) 14:11, 21 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Tacsipacsi, Steinsplitter, thank you indeed to consider my input so fast, now I see the language fall back: tested to change language (left of my username) to zh-taiwan, and language falls back to ja, great (: yes, I can't vote in any language. Now, if the following comment shall be posted elsewhere as long as it's translation issue, kindly show me the link.
If I may continue, guess two issues are present: I finished translating pages which is supposed to display in ja but in en actually. Since my expectation is highly based on jawp/meta user/translator experience, I don't see consistency when translated ja page shows and not shows on commons. Could you have a look and find if there be anything I am missing?
1) I list items on the native (pale yellow background) menu on the page, where those with _Δ_ shows in en only.
I wish to continue learning tech-wise. --Omotecho (talk) 14:57, 21 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
So we should wrap every link in {{Pg}}? --Zhuyifei1999 (talk) 19:10, 21 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Steinsplitter: Good point. It would be technically possible to use page language (translating the vote pages with the translation system and using mw.config.get('wgPageContentLanguage')), but it may not be worth it. However, even if the system here (in contrast to nearly everything else on Commons) uses the interface language, why do we hide the translation bar?
@Omotecho: The translation system stores the translations in different pages, so if the page itself is translated (and not only a template used in it), the base page (without a language suffix in its title) will be inevitably (at least partially) English, and the translations appear on /ja, /de, /fr etc. subpages. The languages bar helps switching between these, but that’s collapsed here by default for some reason (click on the “In other languages” text to show it).
@Zhuyifei1999: Ideally yes, but practically it doesn’t seem to be that simple: there are many pages that are not translated through the extension (their translation mostly depends on the user interface language), and some templates use other templates like {{Clickable button}} that expect a bare page name, but {{Pg}} can’t return that (yet). —Tacsipacsi (talk) 00:04, 22 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Language bar needs to be shown[edit]

Are we not prepared to see votes multiple than PONY 2018? (; If we are, then please keep navbar/i18n to {{Navbar/i18n/en}}, always, not the one that has “3=” hiding non-English languages. I wish we welcome people looking for joy of life, and yes, PONY is where they will land to enjoy what Wikimedians contribute to the world, esp this March-April and their confined life.

By showing language selector, sure it takes up space on small screen. Afaik, it is easy to imagine greater ratio of first time voters/readers/admirers arrive to PONY/Wikimedia, leaving seconds later disappointed as they find everything in foreign language. If they see how to qualify as voter, they might have plenty if time to prepare for PONY2020.

Let’s always show their language is covered. A sign that non-English speakers have their place in PONY project. --Omotecho (talk) / 03:33, 30 March 2020 (UTC) great to see lang bar *\(^v^)/*/ 03:26, 30 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Question from Royalbroil[edit]

Commons:Picture_of_the_Year/2019 says "There are two rounds of the Picture of the Year contest. In the first and current round, you may vote for as many images as you like." But the first round in completed and round 2 has begun. The rules page says: "In the final Round 2 - three votes - eligible users may vote for only 3 finalists. Each of these 3 votes counts equal and one candidate must be only voted once. Note: if someone casts more than three votes, only the 3 most recent votes will be counted." Which is correct? Royalbroil 13:45, 11 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hello @Royalbroil: , Thank you for reporting! :-) Unfortunately, this was not automatically changed, i fixed it by hand. --Steinsplitter (talk) 18:06, 11 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
You're welcome! The limit of three was noted when the contributor voted, so it shouldn't have confused anyone. Royalbroil 21:00, 11 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Question from AntaiosWiki[edit]

vote button inactive. only info. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AntaiosWiki (talk • contribs) 17:56, 12 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Same to me. To be more precise, I'm using Firefox 74.0.1 (64-Bit) on Fedora Linux. HTH. --Reiner Will (talk) 21:40, 12 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Reiner Will: You have only 39 edits so you may not vote (See the rules). --Steinsplitter (talk) 06:45, 13 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

then why we have "vote now" pop-up-kinda button active. just shift it to "watch candidates" for those who can't vote. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AntaiosWiki (talk • contribs) 12:21, 13 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Question from Chlebashořčicí[edit]

I expanded the description to the Smailholm Tower but it doesn't seem to show up. Currently, there's only half of an irrelevant sentence. Can anyone help me change the description?

In the file, I expanded it to: "Smailholm Tower, a peel tower at Smailholm, Scotland, built in the 15th or early 16th century. It provided inspiration to multiple works of Sir Walter Scott who spent here a lot of time during his youth." --Chlebashořčicí (talk) 13:06, 13 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Poor communication[edit]

Why is this compettion not mentioned on Featured Pictures candidate/QIC pages which is where keen photographers go most days. I didn't even know it had started until someone mentioned it in a vote. No wonder you have so few votes. Charlesjsharp (talk) 08:54, 14 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I mean, there is a giant banner on Wikipedia, on the Commons main page, it's been on the village pump, etc. and the frontrunners have more than 400 votes. For something that isn't open to new users, that seems like an awful lot. AFAIK it's just been three volunteers (now two) doing everything -- anyone can post a message to venues they missed. — Rhododendrites talk |  16:01, 14 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
FWIW I think centralized notifications are better for this. To that end, a watchlist notice would be a good idea IMO. — Rhododendrites talk |  16:08, 14 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
There's no banner on Wikipedia, just on the Commons main page, but you miss the point: regulars bookmark the pages they go to first and it's NOT the main page. If I miss it, then there's definitely a problem, being a significant contributor. Charlesjsharp (talk) 19:34, 14 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Question from Zanimum[edit]

Hello! Why is the "Info" button pulling from Description in {{template:information}}, as opposed to the file information captions that exist in more languages? -- Nick Moreau (talk) 15:35, 14 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Question from Robinboysweden[edit]

Hi. I´m not able to vote for my three favourite pics. The button is graded out? Why? I´m logged in and everything.

Regards Robin — Preceding unsigned comment added by Robinboysweden (talk • contribs) 12:23, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Robinboysweden: What does “and everything” mean? You’ve had two edits prior to 1 January 2020, which is exactly 73 less than (or 2.67% of) the 75 required by the rules. Please be a bit more active this year and you’ll be able to vote in POTY2020. —Tacsipacsi (talk) 00:51, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Question from Lebronj23[edit]

Dear all, I think there is a bug in the system, I already voted three times but I am still allowed to vote more, which was not the case before. Best regards, — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lebronj23 (talk • contribs) 17:22, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

You removed your POTY votes, and then you !voted again. --Steinsplitter (talk) 05:33, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
No. But anyway now it seems to work again. Lebronj23 (talk) 12:17, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Question from 168.181.177.65[edit]

todo vale — Preceding unsigned comment was added by 168.181.177.65 (talk) 22:33, 18 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Question from HC3053[edit]

What kind of undemocratic elite vote is that, please?

Sorry, dear Wikipedia and Wikimedia makers, but I am absolutely horrified by the modalities of this vote! As can be seen from the "Committee" tab / last paragraph "Transparency" / R1 voters, due to your voting rule "only Wikimedians with at least 75 existing posts" only a few hundred people are eligible to vote in this "picture of the year" event. I therefore consider this event to be highly undemocratic elitist and an absolute negative advertisement for your otherwise very commendable project! It would therefore be very nice if someone took the trouble to program that the invitation to such votes would only be shown to Wikimedians who are actually entitled to vote! In its current form, you will certainly annoy many people who are not entitled to vote. Possibly thanks for your effort! HC3053 (talk) 23:05, 18 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

You're statement is obviously wrong. As viewable here there were 2356 Users eligible voting in the first round. Habitator terrae 🌍 11:21, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Question from Akmaie Ajam[edit]

This picture may be the winner.

When the results are announced? The voting round is over. Akmaie Ajam (talk) 16:22, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Good question. @Christian Ferrer, Steinsplitter, and -revi? —Tacsipacsi (talk) 21:07, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
We are working on it. --Steinsplitter (talk) 09:34, 23 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
As everyone can see, the provisional results — before an in-depth analysis of the votes — predict this:
Please note that these results are only indicative on a provisional basis. In particular, the results that I indicate after rank 2 may well change.--Braaark (talk) 22:29, 25 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, thanks. Akmaie Ajam (talk) 01:40, 26 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Where is the working page for the tallies? Lx 121 (talk) 08:26, 26 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Lx 121 : Commons:Picture_of_the_Year/2019/Results_SETUP (see also : Commons talk:Picture of the Year/2019/Committee).--Braaark (talk) 19:08, 29 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Tacsipacsi and Akmaie Ajam: Results are now in :) --Steinsplitter (talk) 13:43, 1 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for revealing the results. :) Akmaie Ajam (talk) 19:40, 1 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Question from 2601:282:8301:C5F0:A504:E66A:6DC:1538[edit]

ADDY SAID SHE KNOWS HOW TO DO A CARTWHELL — Preceding unsigned comment was added by 2601:282:8301:C5F0:A504:E66A:6DC:1538 (talk) 13:30, 2 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • I have totally no idea what you are talking about, but understanding that this topic will be removed I'm seizing the moment and just want to say that I'm really perplexed about how could that image have won this year. Two bulls and a man in the middle adorned in dirty clothes, with dirt all around. I'm just imaging a voter who kinda' "Wow really it's what I'm expecting this year to see as the winning image, two bulls and a man, it's perfectly bright, inspiring, marvellous." and adds a vote. I stop to understand people's preferences. --Wolverène (talk) 08:43, 14 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
659 votes vs. 431 votes here or vs. 147 votes here. Seriously how does it work. --Wolverène (talk) 08:49, 14 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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