Commons talk:Photo challenge/Archives/2020

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December results

Weather vanes: Entries • Votes • Scores
Rank 1 2 3
image
Title Maritime weather vane at the east coast
of the island Bornholm, Denmark		 Woodman Point, Western Australia Weather vane witch in
Sainghin-en-Mélantois Nord (Fr)
Author ThomasLendt Calistemon Pierre André Leclercq
Score 22 16 13
Long Exposures: Entries • Votes • Scores
Rank 1 2 3
image
Title Long-term exposure at the Ellerberg
in Franconian Switzerland		 Torrente in Val di Mello. Le rapide Blitze beim Funkturm
Author Ermell 66colpi Linie29
Score 27 15 15
Eye Care: Entries • Votes • Scores
Rank 1 2 2
image
Title Through my eyes. Applying saline solution to a dog's eye Slit lamp and
binocular microscope
Author Roumpf Tulumnes OKJaguar
Score 13 12 12

Congratulations to ThomasLendt, Calistemon, Pierre André Leclercq, Roumpf, Tulumnes, OKJaguar, Ermell, 66colpi and Linie29. -- Colin (talk) 19:24, 10 January 2020 (UTC)

February Themes

Time to pick February challenges. We have the following 7+ vote challenges:

Maybe Motorsports and Public_parks? Any other ideas? --Jarekt (talk) 17:21, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

Photo challenge December results

Stationery: Entries • Votes • Scores
Rank 1 1 3
image
Title Correttore a nastro Colored pencils in holder Il silenzio di un foglio bianco
Author Garonzi Stefania ThoBel-0043 66colpi
Score 16 16 10
Mirrors: Entries • Votes • Scores
Rank 1 2 3
image [[File:|x240px]]
Title Spiegelungen an einer Seifenblase Street crowd reflecting in the mirrors of Harajuku station (Tokyo) Giant mirror
Author Sadarama Basile Morin Celeda
Score 15 11 7

Congratulations to Sadarama, Basile Morin, Celeda, Garonzi Stefania, ThoBel-0043 and 66colpi. -- Jarekt (talk) 03:48, 7 February 2020 (UTC)

February Themes

Time to pick March challenges. We have the following 7+ vote challenges

Maybe Nature's_yellows and Canyons? Any other ideas? --Jarekt (talk) 13:22, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

Photo challenge January results

Rural decay: Entries • Votes • Scores
Rank 1 2 3
image
Title Бабушкин дом]]] Hammer und Sichel, ehemalige UdSSR,
heutiges Kirgistan		 An abandoned village in Kaiping, China
Author Александр Водолазский Benjamin Goetzinger Mx. Granger
Score 14 13 11

Congratulations to Александр Водолазский, Benjamin Goetzinger and Mx. Granger. -- Jarekt (talk) 03:53, 3 March 2020 (UTC)

Fruit: Entries • Votes • Scores
Rank 1 2 3
image
Title Heidelbeeren auf dem Zweig. Aufgenommen im sächsischen Wald. Deutschland. Strawberry half Grapes on a balcony in Germany
Author Kora27 5snake5 Ermell
Score 22 15 11

Congratulations to Kora27, 5snake5 and Ermell. -- Jarekt (talk) 04:17, 3 March 2020 (UTC)

Photo challenge February results

Motorsports: Entries • Votes • Scores
Rank 1 2 3
image
Title Соревнования по
мотокроссу (файл)		 Motorcycle jump during a motocross
race in Barbechat, France		 Freestyle show during a motocross
at Barbechat, France
Author Андрей Малков PCouton PCouton
Score 27 17 14

Congratulations to Андрей Малков and PCouton. -- Jarekt (talk) 00:59, 6 April 2020 (UTC)


Public parks: Entries • Votes • Scores
Rank 1 2 3
image
Title Дворцовый парк (Гатчина) Ленинградской
области. Карпин мост. Россия.		 Two people walking through the autumn
leaves in Linn Park, Glasgow, UK.		 Swing in Bernal Heights Park, San
Francisco (2-frame panorama)
Author Kora27 Compo Rhododendrites
Score 13 11 10

Congratulations to Kora27, Compo and Rhododendrites. -- Jarekt (talk) 12:07, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

interior clocks

I hope in "interior clocks" challenge the exterior clocks will be sorted out when voting starts. Avjoska (talk) 11:12, 25 April 2020 (UTC)

I removed all the exterior clocks from the page, and will do it again. --Jarekt (talk) 12:28, 25 April 2020 (UTC)

May challenge

Time to pick challenge for May. I still think we should do Commons_talk:Photo_challenge/themes#2019–20_COVID-19_pandemic where people take pictures of their lives during pandemic. There were concerns about sending Commons photographers into the streets, where they are not supposed to be, but I think there should be a way to describe the challenge in such a way that that is not an issue. Other options:

I like "Lightbox_photography" challenge especially if we provide instructions on how to build one. Any thoughts? --Jarekt (talk) 13:46, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

Re Covid-19. I opposed this, but I do appreciate there's interest in documenting it as the time we're living in. Could we make it a special sort of ongoing challenge, for a couple of months or more? There won't be the usual large numbers of pictures from photographers' archives showing up, and there'll be many restrictions on us taking new photographs. I just think it needs more time than one month. Covid's not going anywhere. But it is the subject uppermost in a lot of people's minds right now – for that reason I agree it needs to be included. For a second topic, I'd choose Obelisks because they're outdoors. – Shillings1005 (talk) 07:56, 29 April 2020 (UTC)
Insects are not going anywhere either, but that doesn't mean we have to make insect challenges longer than a month. One month is enough for almost any challenge: it draws people's attention to that topic, and if they enjoy documenting that topic, they can still post photos of it any time later. – b_jonas 09:17, 29 April 2020 (UTC)
We do not need to decide right now about the length of any challenge as we can always extend it. For the second challenge, I would prefer something where indoor photography has a chance of generating winning photo, otherwise it would be mostly archives challenge. --Jarekt (talk) 15:32, 29 April 2020 (UTC)
I think we're going to see fewer photos taken in general during this period, so I would suggest: 1) one month for "common" outdoor challenges (you either have it in your archives or you don't, so no additional time necessary); 2) two months for indoor challenges (to give people the chance to do things they normally wouldn't that might take effort, like lightboxes, cooking videos, etc.); 3) no "obscure" outdoor challenges during this period (as people are unlikely to have good photos in their archives). In particular, obelisks are probably not the best idea right now; we can choose a lower-voted item on the list which is more likely to be in people's archives while saving obelisks for a later date. -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 15:54, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

Photo challenge March results

Canyons and gorges: Entries • Votes • Scores
Rank 1 2 3
image [[File:|x240px]]
Title Combe Laval, France Grand Canyon National Park in
Arizona, United States		 Iya Gorge, Tokushima Prefecture,
Shikoku, Japan
Author Celeda Islander61 OKJaguar
Score 34 11 10

Congratulations to Celeda, Islander61 and OKJaguar. -- Jarekt (talk) 11:30, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

Nature's yellows: Entries • Votes • Scores
Rank 1 2 3
image
Title Misumena vatia on a sunflower Hungrige Amseljunge Birds at dawn at lake Taudaha and
the fog illuminated by the sunlight
Author Ermell Ilka Franz Shadow Ayush
Score 27 27 13

Congratulations to Ermell, Ilka Franz and Shadow Ayush. -- Jarekt (talk) 11:38, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

Photo challenge April results

Home cooking videos: Entries • Votes • Scores
Rank 1 2 3
image
Title Ein gutes Brot im eigenen Herd backen. Baking chocolate chip banana bread Preparation of mayonnaise
Author Arquus CrlNvl Traumrune
Score 16 10 3
Interior Clocks: Entries • Votes • Scores
Rank 1 2 3
image
Title Pendulum clock in Bourvallais Hotel, Paris, France Pendule d'officier Wooden wall
clock with pendulum
and massive brass
weights, half-hour
chime
Author Ibex73 Cquoi Franz van Duns
Score 17 9 9

Congratulations to Ibex73, Cquoi, Franz van Duns, Arquus, CrlNvl and Traumrune. -- Jarekt (talk) 00:53, 6 June 2020 (UTC)

Photo challenge May results

Sensors: Entries • Votes • Scores
Rank 1 1 3
image
Title 26.2 MP CMOS full-frame sensor of
Canon mirrorless RP camera		 Device interior of a bourdon
pressure gauge for water
pressure display		 Medical mercury thermometer in front
of its velvet-lined protective
cardboard box. Hand-painted numerals.
Author Islander61 F. Riedelio Franz van Duns
Score 14 14 12

Congratulations to Islander61, F. Riedelio and Franz van Duns. -- Jarekt (talk) 03:13, 6 July 2020 (UTC)


COVID-19 pandemic: Entries • Votes • Scores
Rank 1 2 3
image
Title Covid-19 San Salvatore 08 Covid-19 San Salvatore 02 At the train station in Bamberg
Author Alberto Giuliani Alberto Giuliani Ermell
Score 36 24 16

Congratulations to Alberto Giuliani, Alberto Giuliani and Ermell. -- Jarekt (talk) 03:44, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

August Photo Challenge

I just created Commons_talk:Photo_challenge/themes#Demonstrations_and_protests. I think that might be a good theme at this moment. How do other people feel about it? --Jarekt (talk) 20:16, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

Reasonable, but it would have made a much better challenge for June or July. Most of our other outdoor themes can be thought of (to a large extent) as archive challenges in the wake of COVID-19, and uploading an image a few years late causes no harm except for perhaps Wikipedia articles using a slightly worse image for some amount of time. However, protests are time-critical matters and best uploaded within a few days of taking the picture; I wouldn't want to punish those who uploaded photos in a timely manner and reward those who procrastinated. Unfortunately, opportunities for taking new protest photos in August are limited, so it's going to be mostly an archive challenge. How about retroactively extending eligibility to photos uploaded since 1 May 2020? -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 17:17, 21 July 2020 (UTC)
That is a good point, I think we could allow images uploaded since May. I also do not know if "opportunities for taking new protest photos in August are limited" as there might be some new protests next month. --Jarekt (talk) 12:57, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

Photo challenge June results

Do it yourself: Entries • Votes • Scores
Rank 1 2 3 3
image
Title Home-made redcurrant jam - DIY - jars
between pulp residue and stalks		 Dice made of polymer
clay (handmade).		 Three stages of shed construction Drawings made with
twigs and self-made
natural inks.
Author Franz van Duns Annatsach Jarekt Matylda Florén
Score 9 8 6 6

Congratulations to Franz van Duns, Annatsach, User:Matylda Florén and Jarekt. -- Jarekt (talk) 03:14, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

Rainwater drainage: Entries • Votes • Scores
Rank 1 2 3
image
Title Gargoyle at the Giechburg near
Scheßlitz in Upper Franconia		 Central gutter in the
village of Dawanshiju, China		 Kumpulanpuro culvert,
Helsinki
Author Ermell Mx. Granger Kriomet
Score 22 13 13

Congratulations to Ermell, Mx. Granger and Kriomet. -- Jarekt (talk) 03:32, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

Confusing structure

IMHO the structure or division (project page, discussion...) of these pages is very confusing. Is this a discussion page or are results displayed here? --F. Riedelio • Diskussion •   08:52, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

This is the discussion. Jarekt cross-posts the results here, but they're also posted to the main page. – b_jonas 12:28, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

Photo challenge July results

Shadows: Entries • Votes • Scores
Rank 1 2 3
image
Title Кушать еще не подано Bad Schlema: Schacht 38. Erzgebirgskreis, Sachsen. Shadow of man pressure washing the backside of Go Shnelli hotel in Tallinn
Author Tiraspolsky Kora27 Krr005
Score 22 11 9

Congratulations to Tiraspolsky, Kora27 and Krr005. -- Jarekt (talk) 01:35, 10 September 2020 (UTC)


Obelisks: Entries • Votes • Scores
Rank 1 2 3
image File:Haakon VII, Vardøhus Festung.jpg
Title Haakon VII, Vardøhus Festung Obelisk zur „Heldenstadt Leningrad“ am Aufstandsplatz in St. Petersburg, Russland. Washington Monument, Washington, D.C. from the air.jpg
Author 5snake5 Kora27 OKJaguar
Score 9 6 6

Congratulations to 5snake5, Kora27 and OKJaguar. -- Jarekt (talk) 02:19, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

اهمال التراث العالمي

لماذا يهمل العالم تاريخ الاجداد ويترك لعوامل التعرية والاهمال اين منظمات العالم من اهمال جزء هام من تاريخ البشرية لدي صور توثق اهمال الجميع لجزاء هام من تاريخ البشرية انه في مصر في الفيوم في قرية هوارة المقطع هرم هوارة المقطع Mohammed Fathi Ahmed (talk) 09:05, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

GoogleTranslate: "Neglecting world heritage Why does the world neglect the history of the ancestors and leave it to the factors of erosion and neglect? Where are the world's organizations from neglecting an important part of human history?"

Photo challenge August results

HDR: Entries • Votes • Scores
Rank 1 2 3
image
Title Lokschuppen in Dillenburg - HDR Монумент в честь запуска первого искусственного спутника Земли Junge Frau bei der Pride-Looveparade 2019
Author Otto Domes Tiraspolsky Arquus
Score 15 14 11

Congratulations to Otto Domes, Tiraspolsky and Arquus. -- Jarekt (talk) 01:20, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

Demonstrations: Entries • Votes • Scores
Rank 1 2 3
image
Title We'll not retreat! Euromaidan 2014 in Kyiv Independence Square in Kiev after the assault by the security forces Two girls hold signs at a Black Lives Matter protest in Brooklyn, New York
Author Ввласенко Kiyanka Rhododendrites
Score 27 18 17

Congratulations to Ввласенко, Kiyanka and Rhododendrites. -- Jarekt (talk) 02:24, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

August 2020 Voting

When will voting start for photos submitted in the Monthly Photo Challenge of August ? Md. Abdul Ahad Khan (talk) 10:30, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

It usually start when I finish preparing a page for it, which usually happen in the first week of the month. --Jarekt (talk) 01:21, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
Just curious, is there a script you use to generate the page? -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 02:13, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
@King of Hearts: Yes there are scripts written by User:Colin for creation of voting pages and for counting votes. See Commons:Photo challenge/Maintainers Manual for details and links. --Jarekt (talk) 01:41, 10 September 2020 (UTC)
What Jarekt says. This is a wiki, so anyone is allowed to prepare the voting page, but it's really difficult, so currently only Jarekt does it. Note in particular:
  • Very often people try to submit a picture but does the edit wrong, so the picture can appear in the wrong parts of the page. In the worst cases, they might even delete existing submissions by other users. You have to track down such problems.
  • Users may revoke their own submissions, but can't delete other user's submissions. You have to catch this.
  • Most challenges these days say that a user can only submit pictures that they uploaded during the submission period. Users sometimes break this rule, I've broken it too at least once when the rule was newly introduced. You have to catch this.
  • Each user can only submit four photos to a single challenge. You have to catch when they submit more.
  • Sometimes users submit photos that don't match the topic at all. We can partly leave this to the voting, but sometimes we want to remove off-topic pictures in advance. There are a few challenges where this is easy: remove arachnids and other non-insects from the insect challenges, remove insects from the non-insect arthropods from the non-insect arthropod challenges. Most of the times the topic is much more fuzzier. You have to make judgement calls about such cases.
  • Since the challenge attracts a lot of new users, we often get photos that break Commons rules. The most common violations are, as usual, photos for which they don't own the copyright and don't have permission to distribute. Users can submit photos last minute, so you have to scrutinize the photos carefully, because such photos would normally often take months or years on Commons before someone notices them and deletes them. This is the most difficult problem, because it's the only violation that some users commit maliciously, the rest usually come up only by ignorance.
  • We also occasionally get photos with unnecessary borders or watermarks. These are not forbidden on Commons, because old photos were sometimes created with hard-burned timestamps yet are still valuable, but are heavily discouraged. If we suspect that the user can give us a watermarkless photo, we should ask them to do so.
  • Finally, sometimes we get broken image files, such as truncated ones. I don't understand how these can happen, but the experience is that they do. If we get such an upload, ask the uploader to reupload the correct image.
– b_jonas 13:24, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
I'm surprised and disappointed that Commons hasn't found someone in all these years with the HTML/Javascript ability to create a UI for Photo Challenge that makes it easy for newbies. It particularly attracts newbies (great) who often stumble getting the syntax right for their entries, and sometimes mess up other people's. And voting too has to be checked by running a tool, rather than automatically helping voters to get it right. Both the POTY and WLMUK have better UI. And it would be ideal if the tools for creating pages and marking pages were online (toolslab) so anyone trusted could use them, rather than offline requiring someone with some coding ability and a PC to perform. If you know anyone competent in this area who could help, do let us know. -- Colin (talk) 09:33, 10 September 2020 (UTC)
Yes more automatic tools would be great and would reduce user errors, and possible a lot of confusion by new users.--Jarekt (talk) 23:27, 10 September 2020 (UTC)
Colin: for one, yes, some of Jarekt's work checking stuff could be automated with tools, if you wanted to spend your time developing those tools, but not all of the work, you'd still have to check a lot of exceptions manually. As for the job of voters and photo submissions, I'm not sure if it's really worth to lower the skill floor, because I don't think Commons would get many quality contributions from people who can't follow the instructions. And if someone doesn't want to bother learning how to use Commons, they can just ignore this challenge, publish their photos on Flickr or wherever, and we can still copy them to Commons if they release them under the Creative Commons BY-SA license. – b_jonas 21:12, 2 October 2020 (UTC)
I'm not really understanding your "lower the skill floor" comment. The mistakes you describe above (mistakes on submission and voting) both put people off participating and make it tedious to administer. We do have tools to detect some of the errors, but not, for example, to easily spot if someone's submission removed a few other submissions. And the errors caught have to be fixed by hand or else the editor contacted for them to fix. Quality contributions come from people who have creative ability, the fortune to the be in the right place at the right time, and some technical ability with a camera. As a media repository that relies on volunteer submissions, Commons and Photo Challenge's purpose isn't to encourage people to learn mediawiki coding and syntax, which is an entirely disposable feature of Commons we are stuck with for now. Nor is the purpose of the competition to be difficult and to catch people out who make mistakes. In fact, I rather suspect ability to code wiki and ability to take great photos are as unlinked as it is possible to be. So very much this needs to be easy to enter with minimal reading of manuals or instructions. I think we'd have more participation if it was easier and more accessible to enter and vote. -- Colin (talk) 17:13, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

Photo challenge September results

Mobility aids for the handicapped: Entries • Votes • Scores
Rank 1 2 3
image
Title Woman on mobility scooter on
stormy pier in Hoek van Holland		 Fotowettbewerb September 2020 -
Menschen mit Handicap		 Handicapped
boy on a wheel
chair Shot on
a cozy evening
Author Spielvogel Heike Merz Chetan Siddharth
Score 20 17 12

Congratulations to Spielvogel, Heike Merz and Chetan Siddharth. -- Jarekt (talk) 04:40, 9 November 2020 (UTC)


Nature's blues: Entries • Votes • Scores
Rank 1 2 3
image
Title Cielo blu con scia nuvolosa a San Magno Iceberg in Lilliehöökfjord, Svalbard Antarctic Ice
Author Mino Altomare Hgrobe 5snake5
Score 16 14 13

Congratulations to Mino Altomare, Hgrobe and 5snake5. -- Jarekt (talk) 03:18, 11 November 2020 (UTC)

Photo challenge October results

Curves and spirals: Entries • Votes • Scores
Rank 1 2 3
image
Title stairs on an oil tank Bienenweide sequence photography
of Rescue helicopter
from REGA Switzerland
Author Tcolburn52 Pawel Kostal Roy Egloff
Score 15 14 14

Congratulations to Tcolburn52, Pawel Kostal and Roy Egloff. -- Jarekt (talk) 02:27, 8 December 2020 (UTC)


Long distance views: Entries • Votes • Scores
Rank 1 2 3
image
Title Monument Valley, seen from U.S. Route 163 Mt. Ararat via Khor Virap Reconstruction of the
top station on the summit of
Germany's highest
mountain, the Zugspitze.
Author King of Hearts Tanjagari PtrQs
Score 29 15 15

Congratulations to King of Hearts, Tanjagari and PtrQs. -- Jarekt (talk) 02:33, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

2020 - October - Long distance views

Hello Jarekt. I've come back a couple of times to the presentation of images and the same images appear at the top. This means they will attract more votes. Can you not randomize the presentation? This is the first time I have entered and at least half of the images shouldn't qualify or are of such low quality they should be quickly eliminated - like tilted water horizons. I guess you are on your own with this, but expecting people to assess 310 images is crazy. They must be filtered somehow otherwise the process has no credibility. Charlesjsharp (talk) 11:59, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

I totally agree: For a qualified review, it's necessary to show the image in full size, but you can't do this with ~300 images. Therefore, a very low-res pic was rated 1st place. Indeed a beautiful motif, but low technical quality. I would make following suggestions:

  • Images with very low quality or images that doesen't bear relation to the topic are filtered out.
  • Randomized voting and a simpler voting UI (Only if that's possible, but maybe the WikiDaheim prejury tool could be a role model).
  • Maybe we could elect, additionally to the best images, the first three users with the most votes in total over all nominated images?--Tesla - 💬 13:15, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
Improving the UI has, AFAIK, been on the "nice to have" list for quite a while now. As with so many other things, it takes someone actually doing it, though. :) I imagine the randomization would be part of that process. But I'm not so sure those at the top get more votes. Just a spot check on the one above, "blues", shows that the top 3 come from the top, middle, and bottom of the page.
As for quality, I more or less disagree that we should be filtering out low quality images. This isn't QI. Sometimes images with low technical quality get votes because it's a thematic contest based just on popularity, not on some set of criteria. More importantly, this is a mechanism to attract new participants/inspire people to take chances and I would worry about how we would decide where that low quality cutoff is. I don't think everyone is viewing at full size both because it's impractical with lots of entries and because that's not what's important to some of the voters. What may be helpful is to lower the maximum for contests that are likely to attract lots of entries (like "blues" or "distant views" but not "microscopy" or "auroras" or something). — Rhododendrites talk |  14:18, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
I agree with you, that's hard to find a cutof for technical quality. Currently, ~300 images are too much for fair voting, so a very clear defined theme could help... Maybe, we can give both positive and negative examples for each challenge and a clearer description?--Tesla - 💬 17:20, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
All the page processing for "Photo challenge" is done through scripts, see Commons:Photo_challenge/Maintainers_Manual. Running them takes only one or two evenings a month, and I would like to keep it that way. If someone improves the scripts, like by adding randomization, I can try to run those. I do not, filter the submitted files, as long as they match the number of files per person quotas and are not clear copyright violations (like one of the recent would be winner was - since it was a crop of someone else's photo from the web). As someone that occasionally participate in the challenge I do not want to be the one disqualifying the competition. I agree that some photos have no chance of winning, but they should be allowed to be voted on. I agree that 300 submissions is hard to vote on, but the solution should be some javascripts to help with it, instead of disqualification based on someone's judgment. --Jarekt (talk) 20:19, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
If we are to do randomization, it needs to be done client-side for every voter, just like how POTY does it. Otherwise, it rewards people who win the lottery, which is even worse than the current deterministic practice of rewarding people who submit early. Still, this doesn't really solve the problem of too many things to vote on. -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 21:53, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
We could go for a two-round approach:
  1. From the 1st to the 15th, users can support or oppose an unlimited number of entries, and the top 25 entries with positive net support score (support - oppose) will qualify for the second round. The number of qualifiers may be greater than 25 if there is a tie for 25th place, or less than 25 if there are fewer than 25 entries that have achieved a positive score.
  2. From the 16th to the end of the month, the finalists shall be voted on publicly using the current method.
For both rounds, each voter will receive a unique randomization based on a seed such as their username or User ID number. We should also have a bot remind first-round voters on the 16th to vote in the second round.
I think 25 is small enough for everyone to be able to carefully review, and large enough that any genuine contender should not slip through the cracks. There are some potential caveats. For example, newbies might be discouraged at seeing a bunch of pile-on opposes on their good-faith effort; we could advise voters that it is best practice to avoid opposing an image which has a score of -2 or lower. Another potential issue is with people opposing good images in bad faith to reduce their competition. To combat the effect of opposes on leading contenders, we could make a rule that the top 10 entries in number of supports automatically qualify regardless of how many opposes they get. -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 21:55, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
If we had some gadget to automatically add ♥ ({{0/3*}} with a single click, we could just add those to the images in phase 1 and than do a second round of voting for top picks using current rules (with the exeption that you can add ♥ and a 1st, 2nd or 3rd place to any image. That might be closer to what people are used to already and we would no have to change our codes a lot. --Jarekt (talk) 01:44, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
Let me refine/formalize your proposal a bit: During the first round, voters may add ♥ to an unlimited number of entries. At midnight UTC on the 16th, all entries with fewer supports than the entry in 25th place will be archived and removed from the voting page. The second round begins, with voters now able to use ★★★, ★★★, and ★★★ (limit one each). Voters can add votes of any type to entries they haven't voted on already, or replace their existing ♥ vote with one of the starred options. (Compared to your proposal, I am allowing ♥ votes to be continue to be cast in the second round, because the point of the second round is to present entries that voters may have missed in the first round due to sensory overload, and we want to give voters the opportunity to express support for an image even if they don't consider it top 3. As a result, it doesn't make sense to allow both ♥ and starred votes from the same voter, as the presence of a star implies that the voter would give it a ♥ as well.)
During both rounds, a unique randomization will be generated for each voter using some deterministic seed, so that the same voter will always see entries in the same order no matter how many times they refresh the page, but different voters will see different orders. -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 04:39, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
Tesla: no, we generally don't remove images that are off-topic, because it'd cause too much debates about the edge cases of why a certain image was removed and another off-topic one wasn't. We leave it for the voters to not vote on the off-topic images. The exception is the insects and the non-insect arthropod challenges.
We got an unusually large set of submissions this month. But most of them aren't really long-distance views, and the ones that aren't are easy for voters to discard quickly, so no, you don't need to view all the photos in full to vote. Yes, perhaps there are a few lazy voters who only look at the first few images before voting, but I hope there aren't too many to skew the votes. If you can prove that there are too many such users, then perhaps we could add a __NOEDITSECTION__ to the voting page, but I don't think it's really necessary. I think a two-round voting would hurt because we already have too few voters. – b_jonas 11:40, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
I agree, that a two round voting is a little complicated for just one moth voting period and also that removal of off-topic images will cause trouble. But it could be an improvement to give negative examples before the challenge opens for submissions. So that there is a section "Example images" and a section "Off-topic images" which are similar to the requested images but dont't match the challenge. For example in "blues" an image with has an artificial blue postproc or in "Pottery" a glas sculpture. That would maybe help to clearly define the scope of the challenge.
And randomization and a voting UI similar to the QI-Image helper would be great! --Tesla - 💬 13:46, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
@Tesla: From what I see, the main cause of bloat is not off-topic images, but images with very low technical and artistic quality, which can only be eliminated through voting because it's an inherently subjective process. -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 18:52, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
Hello all. Please excuse my late entry to this discussion; I read it with great interest. I am fairly new to the the Commons monthly contest and have much enjoyed it. My spouse has also engaged somewhat. Additionally, I am confident many of my contributions have been low technical examples, and they have received some small recognition. My observation for your consideration regards the comment that we already have too few voters. Sometimes I vote and sometimes I do not. The long distance views is one in which I did not vote and the reason is that I did not want to view the vast amount of entries. I am much more inclined to vote if there was a smaller selection. I do not know how this could be achieved and only comment so that you will have further information to consider. Most kind regards to all.Hu Nhu (talk) 16:57, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
Hello again: I've a another thought. Might it be helpful to this process if the number of entries per person was reduced? Would a limit of two or three photoes per editor improve matters? Kind regards and thanks to all for your efforts.Hu Nhu (talk) 01:24, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
I also find that voting on a large number of images is time consuming and not user friendly. That's why I added the problem to META-WIKI's wish list.
If you are interested, you can vote or make suggestions here.
--F. Riedelio • Diskussion • ✉ 18:40, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
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