Commons:Requests for comment/Assign translationadmin-right to admins

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Option Administrators should be able to add oneself to the “Translation administrators” group just went live by merging gerrit:86366 on 2013-10-07 21:00. Thank you Reedy.

Assign translationadmin-right to admins[edit]

The Translate-Extension is active on Wikimedia Commons and therefore a new user group right was created. Currently the sysop group (=regular administrators) does not have the translationadmin group rights. It was proposed to let admins assign this right themselves in future. However it would be straightforward to assign this right to the sysop group per default.

Another discussion was archived with 7  Support/1  Oppose and had no 'clear' consensus according to comment 10 of bug 49173.

What is a translation admin?[edit]

Translate UX main editor screen

A translation administrator (aka translationadmin) can mark pages for translation so translators can use the translate interface (aka TUX [Translation User Experience]) for translation, can aggregate these translatable pages to groups and even moving translatable pages without leaving a redirect. A translation admin should be familiar with the best practices about how-to-mark a page for translation and should understand that volunteers spend a large amount of time doing translations so they must not be lost. Only users who are regular administrators (sysop) and have the page translation right can delete translatable pages.

Rationale[edit]

  • Administrators without translation admin right cannot delete translated pages, they even can't move them.
  • The translate extension suffers from a bunch of bugs (software issues), for example:
“ Admins without the translate right cannot delete pages that have been tagged as translatable. I just went to delete the gallery page Kruistochten which was recently created nonsense. I got the message:
"Unable to proceed
You do not have permission to manage translatable pages, for the following reason:
The action you have requested is limited to users in the group: Translation administrators."

The page had the <translate> tag on it, put there by a contributor with two contributions, both nonsense. I removed the tag, and then blanked the page, but was still unable to delete it. Unless all Admins have this right, vandals need to just put the <translate> tag on a page to force its deletion by only the select group..

”

—Jim, 12:16, 28 May 2013 (UTC) source

Issues and responses[edit]

  • When assigning the to the sysop group, users and translators would have no clue who to ask for translation assistance among the 273 admins.
    • Even if admins are marked as translate admins, they don't have to be necessarily active. A glad look at the page translation log will answer all these questions.
  • It would make sysops feel they can just use the tool as they wish, while they have to at least read page translation docs and follow some consensus.
    • Our candidates who went through the administrator-election-procedure can be usually trusted to read the manual before messing things up. There were some issues at COM:Licensing and other pages but none of those who caused that trouble was an elected administrator at Wikimedia Commons.
  • That discussion was started too early
    • If administrators are blocked in their actions by the translate extension, the discussion can't be stared early enough. There are only 4-6 active translation administrators.

Discussion[edit]

The following discussion is archived. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

The discussion showed that the current procedure of assigning the translationadmin-right to admins is strongly opposed (100 % oppose). Furthermore the proposal to assign the right to all sysops per default did get 71 % support (10/14) with four users beeing concerned about the effects. However, it was supported that administrators should be able to add themselves to the “Translation administrators” group. (100 % with 12/12 votes) --McZusatz (talk) 20:40, 27 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Assign this right to the sysop group per default[edit]

  1.  Strong support As per my previous comments: If we need a re-election process (e.g. every 2 years for admins), I would accept this otherwise I oppose further splitting of the admin tools. No need to unbundle the sysop group here. This doesn't change anything for the better, only adds bureaucracy. Needless Bureaucracy. -- Rillke(q?) 07:16, 13 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  2.  Support per Rillke. --AFBorchert (talk) 07:26, 13 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  3.  Support Makes sense. --Hedwig in Washington (mail?) 07:29, 13 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  4.  Support per Rillke. --Steinsplitter (talk) 07:30, 13 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  5.  Support, is quite logical. --Alan (talk) 12:33, 13 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  6.  Support TA jobs need more administrators' assistance. – Kwj2772 (msg) 14:51, 13 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  7.  Support per previous discussion on VP. --McZusatz (talk) 16:52, 13 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  8.  支持 I don't quite see the point of keeping this userright separate. If admins have to be trusted by the community to use the extant tools, surely the administrative portion of Extension:Translate is not much different. It's not like this project wasn't already multilingual by nature. --O (谈 • висчвын) 01:25, 14 August 2013 (GMT)
  9.  Oppose per issue #2 --Zhuyifei1999 (talk) 13:58, 14 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  10.  Support --Rosenzweig τ 14:25, 14 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  11.  Oppose Solution 2 would be a reminder for every admin who is starting to be active in translation administrations to read the most important docs first. Vogone (talk) 17:24, 14 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  12.  Support --Leyo 09:32, 15 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  13.  Oppose The reason it's been kept separate everywhere else is to make sure admins know what they're doing before they use the complicated extension. --Rschen7754 05:14, 16 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Oppose Recipe for disaster as already proven by experienced users who were inexperienced translation administrators and caused a lot of anger among the translators. --Nemo 13:01, 21 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Administrators should be able to add oneself to the “Translation administrators” group[edit]

  1. --UV (talk) 19:05, 4 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  2. I'd also go with this, if the default fails. -- Rillke(q?) 07:24, 13 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Yes, better than bugging a crat with this. --Hedwig in Washington (mail?) 07:31, 13 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  4.  支持 as a fallback. --O (谈 • висчвын) 01:25, 14 August 2013 (GMT)
  5.  Support per Hedwig --Zhuyifei1999 (talk) 13:58, 14 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  6. as a fallback --Rosenzweig τ 14:26, 14 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  7.  Support ·addshore· talk to me! 15:44, 14 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  8.  Support Same solution like on Meta/Wikidata. Vogone (talk) 17:24, 14 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  9. --Steinsplitter (talk) 09:34, 15 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  10. As a fallback solution, ok. --McZusatz (talk) 10:52, 15 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  11.  Support similar to Meta and Wikidata, and ensures that admins know what they are doing before they use it. --Rschen7754 05:15, 16 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  12.  Support as an alternative. – Kwj2772 (msg) 17:59, 17 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Demand each admin to request this right on the Bureaucrats' noticeboard[edit]

  1.  Strong oppose Doesn't make any sense. Why bug a crat with this? They have other things to deal with. More important things that is. --Hedwig in Washington (mail?) 07:32, 13 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  2.  Oppose per previous discussion on VP. --McZusatz (talk) 16:52, 13 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  3.  反对 definitely unnecessary. --O (谈 • висчвын) 01:25, 14 August 2013 (GMT)
  4.  Oppose per O --Zhuyifei1999 (talk) 13:58, 14 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  5.  Oppose --Rosenzweig τ 14:26, 14 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  6.  Oppose --Steinsplitter (talk) 09:34, 15 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.
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