Commons:Graphics village pump/December 2007

SVG animation on Commons?

I have been playing around with SVG animation and would like to upload some, but File types says only GIF animation is allowed. 1.So SVG static images are allowed but not SVG animation? 2.If so, are there any plans to allow SVG animation in the future? 3.Does anyone know a good app to convert animated SVGs to animated GIFs? Thanks for your help. --Chetvorno 12:48, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

The SVG image you upload to Wikipedia is converted to PNG for display because current browser support even for static SVG is patchy. But unfortunately PNG is a static format, though by clicking on the image you can get to the real SVG. It might be interesting to upload to a sandbox and see just how your work is actually rendered. If you do, let us know. Are you using declarative animation or scripting it (or both)? Globbet 00:46, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

You can upload your animated SVG on commons but don't forget to categorising them as Category:Animated SVG, even if Wikipedia can't display them, that can allow (wiki)graphists to learn more about Animated SVG (which display fine when look directly on the true url and with en:Opera, ex. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1b/Animate_sbs.svg_tutorial.svg ), and encourage to allow SVG animation directly on wikipedia. 19:01, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Wikibooks and Wikijunior logos

Wikibooks is looking for a new logo. All interested artists are asked to review the process outlined, and submit logos at Wikibooks/Logo or Wikijunior/Logo (for the Wikijunior project). Thanks! – Mike.lifeguard | ^@en.wb 05:23, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

---

Le nouveau logo de Wikilivres est en cours de discussion. Tous les artistes qui sont intéressés peuvent passer en revue le processus et soumettre des logos à Wikibooks/Logo ou Wikijunior/Logo. – Mike.lifeguard | ^@en.wb 05:23, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

SVG problem?

I'm sure this has been raised before, but I am having problems with an SVG file, in that black shapes are appearing on the image when not viewed at full scale. the image that I am currently having this problem with is Image:STS400CT.svg They are at the top of the image, in the centre, and not part of the file itself. If you open the file in inkscape, they are not present. I cannot make them go away. Can anyone help? --GW Simulations 10:55, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

I've seen that happen before but unfortunately I cannot help. Last month we discussed a general SVG help page, Help:SVG, and I think this is one of the problems that the page should address. (An alternative title for the help page could be Help:SVG FAQ.) ZeroOne 14:31, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

I see a black blocks 'behind' the top two grey rectangles when viewing the SVG file in Firefox. This image has been created with Inkscape. Try uploading your images saved in "Plain SVG" format. Usually this appears in the program's Save As dialog box as an alternative format (as opposed to just "SVG", which might be programs's own version of SVG) ...". If this does not work, have you read the SVG source to see if the block is actually in there? Globbet 02:22, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

I've already tried both formats. How do I read the source? --GW Simulations 14:19, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I have too. Either way, your black blocks appear for me in Firefox but not Explorer or Opera.

You can read the SVG source in Inkscape, or by selecting source view in a browser, or by opening the file with any text editor, or better a source code editor(at the moment I am using JCreator).

I have looked at the source of Image:STS400CT.svg. It is not pretty. I am quite surprised that every element is drawn each time; there are half a dozen lines of code for every eye. It is no wonder the file size is about 300k. I am having a play with it to see what can be done to make it smaller. I expect to be able to reduce it to about tenth of the size. Globbet 01:56, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Extra: Actually the original Inkscape SVG file is 245k, saving it as plain SVG gets it down to 196k. By more or less completely rewriting it, I have, without trying, got it down to 14k, or 6% of the original size. Quite an interesting result, I think, but tedious to do. Oh, and no black blocks, which is where we started. Globbet 23:28, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Globbet, why did you revert you version of the file./Lokal_Profil 22:47, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Two reasons.

• I decided I should invite GW Simulations to comment on the new image before replacing the original.
• I am as yet unfamiliar with the upload process, and it did not behave as I expected. I have already edited Commons:First_steps/Upload_form (again) to try to explain a shade less vaguely what actually happens. It did not say that in updating, the image description would not be replaced and that the contents of the "summary field" went into the "comments" box of the "File history" table. It does now. What is more, although the png converted image shown on the image page was changed, clicking on it to show the real svg image actually brought up the old one. This I do not understand.

Globbet 18:09, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. It's much better and I have reverted to your modified version. You mentioned being surprised at each element being drawn every time. Is there a better way to do this? I've just been using copy-and-paste. Thanks. --GW Simulations 22:38, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Help:SVG

I've put up a very rough version of the proposed SVG help page at Help:SVG. Its just all bullet-points at the moment but I'm sure it will become user-friendly soon! The actual How-To section needs a rewrite by someone good at tutorials---I just down whatever thoughts came into my head, so I won't mind if somebody trashes my Version 0.1 just uploaded.

Thanks to all the people who participated in Village Pump's Nov 07 discussion for help! ButterStick 23:27, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

After looking through the SVG pages, I noticed that:---

• a lot of the talk on Commons talk:Transition to SVG and the Village Pump and Graphics Lab could be better sorted.
• a lot of the information of the above three plus Help:SVG could be better organized. ButterStick 23:46, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

A excellent start. Thank you ButterStick. I had not noticed Commons talk:Transition to SVG. That is exactly what a talk page should not be. In Wikipedia there is a template that can be used to try to confine talk to improving the project page. Globbet 01:05, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

SVG help feedback & problem

I have a problem with Image:Locations in north Britain in the early tenth century.svg. Help:SVG says "Why doesn't my image render? This might be due to a number of reasons. Often it is due to a reference to an image on your hard drive (the rendering stops as the website tries to find this other file)." Yes, I think so too, but I'd have liked to know how to fix it!

So, how do I fix this problem? The PNG image file is on Commons, at Image:Scotland Land Use by height.png. I tried changing the image properties in the SVG file to use that path/filename, which doesn't render locally, but I had hoped it would do here. Now http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/de/Locations_in_north_Britain_in_the_early_tenth_century.svg looks ok, but still no luck with getting it to render on the image description page or on enWP. Any ideas? Angusmclellan 15:02, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Help:SVG is a page that has existed for less than a week. Perhaps you can help us improve it?

Your SVG source file contains this:

<image xlink:href="/wikipedia/commons/e/ed/Scotland_Land_Use_by_height.png" ...

which is not a full URL. I have not tried hard to understand when it does and does not work, but it does not matter anyway because

"http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ed/Scotland_Land_Use_by_height.png"

does point to the image you appear to have used as a basis for your SVG. I suggest you put the full link in the SVG source and try again.

I have read somewhere recently a discussion questioning the merit for Commons of SVG images that include raster images, but I can't find it atm. Globbet 00:02, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

If I knew enough about SVG to contribute to Help:SVG I probably wouldn't be asking stupid questions here! I did wonder myself about using a SVG+PNG image, so I created a PNG instead. In future I'll stick to PNG *or* SVG, but not both together. I'll give the full URL a try, but purely out of curiosity. Thanks for the reply, Angusmclellan 10:47, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

SVG: use

I'm having trouble when updating my SVG graph Hong Kong Railway Route Map en.svg (current version: image:Hong Kong Railway Route Map en.svg) that using the <use xlink:href="#mosttext"/> to create a whity outline for text thus reducing duplication of the whole texts as the old version. They can be rendered normally in Inkscape, but, as you see they don't when uploaded to Wikimedia. Please help. -- Sameboat - 同舟 12:18, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

I can't find use xlink:href="#mosttext" in any of the sources! Do you mind pointing me to the original problem file? (line no. might help...) ButterStick 10:45, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm using Firstobject XML editor and do not know how to show the line or colume no. But you should be able to find line by the id, i.e. " mosttext ". thx -- Sameboat - 同舟 22:28, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

I had a look and I couldn't find anything wrong! Perhaps its RSVG's fault, as my Firefox won't render it either, while Inkscape renders it correctly. Its a beautifully written SVG file btw. ButterStick 05:21, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

So currently there's no cure? Is there any way we can report such fault to MediaWIKI? But actually I found that many browsers give the same result at all with or without w:librsvg... -- Sameboat - 同舟 15:34, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

I mean, my Firefox (2.0.0.11 with no extensions) doesn't render the mosttext elements either. I think something needs to be reported to Mediawiki, though I have no idea how to deal with the MW people. ButterStick 02:20, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

I downloaded the file, which for me shows no station names in Firefox. I think the definition of "mosttext" is lacking a <text/> attribute. Try this: at line 999 <g id="mosttext"> should read <text id="mosttext"> and at 1480 </g> should be </text>. It works for me. I am not going to try uploading it myself right now as I am not sure if that is the problem you mean, and anyway I want to go to bed. Globbet 01:31, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Tried, no good. I've built a test file here Image:Sameboat temp002.svg. You can overwrite with your version to show how it works. thx -- Sameboat - 同舟 11:29, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

One thing I have found. To get the large territory names to appear pale grey rather than black in a wider range of viewers you need to use "fill-opacity" rather than "opacity". Globbet 11:19, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Greenspun illustration project

Just pointing this out in case you guys missed it: Commons:Village pump#Greenspun illustration project: requests now open. You can make requests and/or fulfill requests (for $). There's also some talk about creating SVG manuals/how-tos. Rocket000 00:48, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Some SVGs that fail to be converted

Macia11 uploaded some SVGs (see here, here, here, here, here, and here) which all fail to display if automatically converted to PNG. All of them, however, pass the validation service. To me this looks like another case where the converter fails.

Out of frustation, I guess, Macia11 blanked all pages, and someone else filed the whole lot for deletion (see here, here, here, here, here, and here). But I hope that these images can be saved. Perhaps it is possible to find a workaround for the conversion problem.

Please note that Macia11, according to his user page, speaks Polish and German but apparently no English. In case you have a message for him, I am willing to translate it from English to German, if necessary. --AFBorchert 17:36, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Its (again) a simple case of the reference to the external file "Verlauf.png" not being deleted prior to upload. I've removed the offending code in all the files... ButterStick 02:18, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

(forgot to add) My message is: "Hi, I've fixed the images, it was simply a case of leaving Verlauf.png in the file before you uploaded. Trying to access the external file broke the rendering process." AFBorchert, you can translate freely if you want, as long as the general message gets through. Thanks for the offer :D ButterStick 02:26, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, ButterStick, for your grand help. I have forwarded and translated your message to Macia11. Regards, AFBorchert 07:49, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Where do all those maps come from?

Hi, I have a question: I see a lot of maps like this one, which has pretty detailed structures, but the author just says it's self-made. So where does the map data come from? And has, say, the map in question really been created from scratch, or is it based on some other file? -- Ddxc 07:31, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Stop Megabyte Thumbnails!

Since when are thumbnails supposed to be two megabytes big?

Can someone please go to the thumb directory and reform all the whopping thumbnails and the process that created them? Thank you. Jidanni 02:37, 23 December 2007 (UTC)