Commons:Featured picture candidates/File:Une Restauration by Edouard Dantan.jpg

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File:Une Restauration by Edouard Dantan.jpg, featured[edit]

Voting period is over. Please don't add any new votes.Voting period ends on 10 May 2019 at 00:54:57 (UTC)
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A Restoration, painting by Édouard Joseph Dantan, 1890
@Basile Morin: Done! Also moved this page. Adam Cuerden (talk) 14:29, 2 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you very much, Adam -- Basile Morin (talk) 15:21, 2 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Support This artwork shows two different points of view : the one of the sculptor, totally uninterested in the uncovered body, and the one of the artist Édouard Joseph Dantan representing nudity in 1890 -- Basile Morin (talk) 02:36, 1 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Oppose - Is that some kind of weird allegory? He has a woman posing nude, and instead of depicting her, he's restoring a clothed figure? WTF? My father was a painter and I've been around art and artists my entire life, and for the life of me, I can't understand what this artist is getting at. I also don't find this a good painting in terms of form. It's the equivalent of the difference between a snapshot, with a series of perhaps independently interesting items but no great form, and a great photo in which the work is more than the sum of its parts. I think I shall have to oppose, because I see neither valuable documentation of a process of restoration nor [don't see] a particularly good painting. -- Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:21, 1 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • First of all, it looks like you don't understand she was supposedly wrapped when sculpted by the artist represented in the painting, and this is just the end of the posing session. Secondly, if this was "not a good painting", it would certainly not have been sold 182,500 USD on this website. This image is also used on several Wikipedia pages. To finish, as for the documentation of a process, it is quite good in my opinion, and of course this is an artist's view of an artist's action, so the level of the interpretation here might be considered, you can't say File:Édouard Manet - Le Déjeuner sur l'herbe.jpg is an inaccurate documentation image for a picnic for example -- Basile Morin (talk) 01:49, 1 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Ikan Kekek: , please show us what your father "is getting at", or just give a link to his Wikipedia page, so we can compare and discuss He was a painter, not a sculptor, right ? Looks like this artist here has been around sculptors's studios to explore that field. This artwork shows in my opinion two different views : the one of the sculptor completely uninterested in the naked body, and the one of the artist Édouard Joseph Dantan representing the unwrapped model in 1890. It reminds me this quote : “Art is what makes life more interesting than art.” (Robert Filliou) -- Basile Morin (talk) 03:26, 1 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
It's interesting that you think high prices prove the artistic value of something. I don't, and since you do, you would never appreciate my father's art, since at the moment, it sells for 5 and not 6 figures. So it must be inferior, from your point of view, I imagine. I note your explanation of what we're looking at, but my reaction to the form doesn't change. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:33, 1 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Objectively, high prices definitely prove the artistic value of something yes, at least in the art official estimation, but subjectively it's different of course. Some people would vandalize museums if they could, since the exposed works don't match their personal tastes. Five or six figures the price of your father's paintings, wow well, if it was six like Édouard Joseph Dantan, he might be a notable artist. Want And I would like to learn more about your personal education and knowledge, then Could you say more about this imperative "documentation aspect" you seem to consider so important in painting in general ? Looks nonsense to me, although works in this situation (I mean it's not abstract) -- Basile Morin (talk) 04:02, 1 May 2019 (UTC) fixing my comment since somewhat I misunderstood Ikan's father' works were sold millions USD :-) -- Basile Morin (talk) 05:22, 1 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • No, there is no imperative to document anything. That's something I considered after appraising the quality of the art, as it could give a different kind of value to a work of visual arts in the absence of other interest to me. My personal education? I've already said that I'm a professional musician. My education in visual arts is informal though pretty extensive. But am I the issue here? I have but one opinion. But back to prices: Prices prove the current market value of anything; they say nothing whatsoever about its artistic value. -- Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:18, 1 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • And if you want to know the truth, first, you misread my comment, which said "5 and not 6 figures", and it was sarcastic. We've just sold the first artwork by my father that we've sold since his death (yes, for 5 figures, that part is true), and he was never a huge seller; he truly painted for art's sake. Of course he hoped to sell, and he did sell quite a few things over the course of his career, though not nearly enough to live on (teaching and lecturing took care of that, and art supplies and paying for models is very expensive), but he never made a single concession to style or critics and just did what he felt was demanded of him by Art. That meant abandoning styles that had he continued them for a few more years, he probably could have become very rich. I don't care if you believe me or not on anything I'm telling you, but valuing art by sales prices was absolutely anathema to him, and I don't think any more of it than he did. Some of the greatest art is priced at $1,000-3,000 and struggles to get sold, and some of the biggest shit in the world sells for millions of dollars. -- Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:26, 1 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Correct, I have no formal credentials in visual arts or art history and have never claimed to. Feel free to disregard any of my opinions on art that you disagree with. And disregard them in music, too, if you like. My credentials shouldn't play a role in determining what music you do and don't value! -- Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:13, 1 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ok, so what about this comment : "He has a woman posing nude, and instead of depicting her, he's restoring a clothed figure? WTF?" What the fuck, you say, I don't understand. Have you ever visited a sculptor's studio and seen how they work ? -- Basile Morin (talk) 05:32, 1 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

This painting has been sold at the price of a small apartment in Paris or New York (or 10 brand new cars, or equivalent) and I think investors know quite well what amount of money is worth to be spent here. Although art is subjective, this indicator defines the artistic value, not as an emotional index, but more like the fact to be exposed in prestigious galleries or in museums, or the fact to be signed (or appreciated) by famous artists, etc. Édouard Joseph Dantan is a notable painter, and reading the biography of this artist, his father Antoine Laurent Dantan and his uncle Jean-Pierre Dantan are both famous sculptors, who may have been influential -- Basile Morin (talk) 09:43, 1 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Paraphrasing Wikipedia, this man was a salon painter who was very successful in his lifetime and whose reputation was then eclipsed by more progressive artists. More recently, as what some would call academic painting has become more popular with the critics, his reputation has gone back up. There is nothing the least bit permanent about the monetary value of artworks nor the reputation of artists (obviously with some partial exceptions, who for at least the time being have remained at the top rank of received opinion ever since their lifetimes, and I'm not suggesting that isn't often just). The same is true in music, and I think many people would not consider whichever album made the most money last year to therefore be the very best music that was released, nor the very best recording. Of course that's different, because that involves a very large number of relatively small spenders, rather than some critics and a very small number of very large spenders, but wealth does not equal taste, and have you not noticed that what's in in the art world very often varies from year to year like the latest fashions in clothing? Anyway, I think this discussion is probably pretty much played out. I'm aware this kind of art is now in again. That doesn't mean I have to value it. -- Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:11, 1 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Does Wikipedia talk about Dantan's negative "reputation" ? Not in my reading. He had success, yes. The "classical style" later fell out of fashion, but certainly for everybody at this time. Sotheby's site says "Une restauration shows Dantan at his very best through the virtuosity of paint handling, attention to detail, complexity of compositional arrangement and relative monumentality". Also mentioning his "sense of humor", it indicates the sculpture Winter by Jean-Antoine Houdon as probably a major source of inspiration -- Basile Morin (talk) 11:09, 1 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
That's my point; this style fell out of fashion, and with it, his reputation. I get the distinction you're making, though. -- Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:30, 1 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Moving to  Support now thanks to the discussion above--BoothSift 05:15, 2 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Wow, interesting :-) -- Basile Morin (talk) 10:13, 1 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Interesting indeed - thanks for the informative comment. Cmao20 (talk) 19:09, 1 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Confirmed results:
Result: 12 support, 0 oppose, 0 neutral → featured. /--BoothSift 05:38, 6 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
This image will be added to the FP gallery: Non-photographic_media#Nudes
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