Category talk:Cafés

Rename request

{{move|Cafés and coffee shops|I realize that these two categories can be defined slightly differently as indicated by the usage notes, but I think it may not be much point doing so because (1) many editors will just assume that ''coffee shop'' is another term for ''café'', and (2) many cafés also sell coffee beans and ground coffee, which means that the files will end up in both categories.|2011-10-11}}

 Oppose In many countries, cafés are more like a pub and quite different from a coffee house, so its makes no sense to make some sort of common denominator of something that will remain different from country to country. Moreover, complex composed category names are a source of troubles. It might be better to redirect coffee houses to cafés in the countries where the word café shares the same meaning. --Foroa (talk) 04:39, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

 Comment: Can you clarify your last sentence? I'm not sure what you mean. — Cheers, JackLee ^–talk– 07:19, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

In several countries, cafés are comparable to pubs and have not really something to do with coffee houses. In other countries, cafés are coffee houses and have nothing to do with pubs. --Foroa (talk) 08:20, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

So what do you mean by redirecting coffee houses to cafés in certain countries? Also, are you suggesting that since the word café means something different to different people, we should not try to define the term? In other words, "Cafés in the United Kingdom" may mean establishments that serve coffee and other drinks, but "Cafés in XYZ" may mean pubs in XYZ? I am wondering whether that would be very confusing for editors trying to categorize files. As for coffee houses, the main problem that I see is that even though an editor has tried to define it as shops selling coffee beans rather than drinking establishments, many people are putting files relating to drinking establishments in that category. — Cheers, JackLee ^–talk– 11:33, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

Obviously, you come from a country where cafés are mainly coffehouses. I come from a country, like I guess in most of Southern Europe, a café is more like a taverne, bistro, pub which serves drinks, but onl occasionaly coffee. One could say, the more you have cafés in a category, the more likely the cafés are of the pub/bistro type. --Foroa (talk) 12:24, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

I'm largely with Foroa here. I think Category:Cafés should be a redirect. In some countries (mostly English-speaking ones), it usually means coffeehouses; in others (and even in some English-speaking regions, such as New England), it usually means a relatively casual bar; further, you have the British use without the accent, pronounced like caff, that is what we in the U.S. would call a "greasy spoon" eatery. (By the way, any caffe in Italy will have perfectly good coffee, and in the morning will be selling a lot more of that than alcohol, but the evening drinkers will certainly be their main business.) - Jmabel ! talk 14:57, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

I'm beginning to see your point – that café means too many different things to different people, so it is better to encourage people to use more specific terms like coffee houses or pubs. Since a redirect can only direct people to one page, perhaps we should make this a disambiguation page instead? — Cheers, JackLee ^–talk– 16:40, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

Problem is indeed that I am under the impression that cafés in France, the Netherlands, Belgium, Luxemburg, ... is the name used for cafés/bistro/kroeg so what you will call pubs, so not coffee houses. The pub category is then used for cafés that have the style of English, Irish and Danish pubs. So I see no problem of having a cafés category tree but the real meaning of the café is country (end maybe period) specific. I am under the impression that in Germany, cafés where coffee houses 50 years ago, but currently, they are mostly evolved to pubs. --Foroa (talk) 18:03, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

You don't want to be confusing Dutch Coffee Houses with Dutch Cafés, and you won't get egg 'n' chips at a British coffee shop. The local useages for these terms makes any merger fraught. Perhaps the only global overarching term is Restaurant. Railwayfan2005 (talk) 22:14, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

If café has such an ambiguous meaning, we probably shouldn't be using it as an organizational rubric. The overlapping categories of Pubs, Bars, Saloons, Cafés, Taverns, etc, is getting a little ridiculous in my mind. - Themightyquill (talk) 15:15, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

 Oppose Like Foroa--Pierpao.lo (listening) 17:35, 7 February 2012 (UTC)