Category talk:Air force of Taiwan

 Oppose: airforce of Taiwan should be a subcategory of the airforce of China.

• No category renames concerning Taiwan military forces and political subdivisions will be executed before they are properly documented and agreed, by preference in a document in the Category:Commons category schemes family. --Foroa (talk) 08:27, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Capitalisation besides this category ia a subcat of the existingCategory:Air Force of the Republic of China which is in turn a subcat of Category:Air force of China. Have a good look at those two categories and their contents.

The same division appears in both the naval and land forces equivalents of this category. As the main creator of this nest of categories please allow me to explain the reason for this. (If you can't be bothered to read the long version, the short version is that it is done this way to both respect reality as it is whilst attempting not to upset the political sensitivities of both sides.)

The long version. The Republic of China existed as the main recognised political entity in China from about 1912 to about 1948 so any files related to the Chinese government military of that time can be legitimately and almost uncontroversially be included in categories titled the Republic of China. After 1948 according to the PRC the RoC ceased to exist and there is no political entity called the Republic of China whatever the authorities on Taiwan chose to call themselves. Of course the reality is a little different with many nations continuing to recognise those on Taiwan as the legal government of China until the mid to late 1970s. After this point most nations recognised the PRC as the government of China. In order not to offend PRC sensibilities it is now usual to refer to Taiwan rather then the RoC.

There are four ways to deal with these images, which reflect the different positions taken.

i)There is one China called the PRC, the RoC no longer exists and the forces there are the remenants of a warlord faction which will be integrated the PLA as soon as the malcontents there see sense.

ii)There is one China called the RoC, those calling themselves the PRC are rebels who will be crushed when the beloved homeland is liberated.

iii)There is one China united by language, culture and people and one day we will be united again, names are just that names.

iv)There is a nation called Taiwan which exists, its culture, people and language are distinct and independent of that of the mainland. In 1948 its people were brutally invaded by forces fleeing China, who in the intervening years used military force to supress the local people and culture. The nation of Taiwan will throw of the shackles of these invaders and their desire for a single China and will one day chart its own way in the world.

The existing cats are organised in such a way as to reflect a single China whilst at the same time trying to maintain the differences between the two. In my opinion amalgamating the existing Category:Air force of Taiwan into Category:Air Force of the Republic of China is just asking for trouble.KTo288 (talk) 11:15, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

Current baseline

Until a specific Taiwan categorisation scheme is created, this section holds the current baseline in respect with the Taiwan/Chinese organisation in both the current context and historical perspective.

Although normally there would be no need to have separate categories for generally the same subject. "Military of the Republic of China" is not a synonmn for "Military of Taiwan"

To paraphrase Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Chinese)

(Use) Republic of China When referring to the pre-1949 Republic as it existed on Mainland China. or When referring to the state in article space after appropriate disambiguation has been given.

The word disambiguation is important here because depending who you talk to there is either one or two entities called the Republic of China. All sides agree that a Republic of China existed on the mainland from the end of the Imperial period until 1948. However according to the PRC point of veiw the RoC ceased to exist after this point. The Taiwanese point of veiw is that they are a government in exile that there was no break in 1948.

The current nesting of categories makes it explicit that the "Military of Taiwan" is derived from the historical "Military of the Republic of China", whilst emphasising the break because "Military of Taiwan" should only contain images post 1948 and "Military of the Republic of China" should directly hold only images prior to 1948.

To do as you suggest and have a single "Military of the Republic of China" to which "Military of Taiwan" redirects would create a narrative in which there is a single uninterrupted entity called the Republic of China. Such a narrative would be consistent with the Taiwanese world view, but not that of the PRC and increasingly most other nations.

By way of illustration I have created a mock up of how a unified Air Force of the Republic of China category may look. You can find it here, now compare it to the existing Category:Air Force of the Republic of China. KTo288 (talk) 01:15, 10 February 2009 (UTC)