User talk:Walgamanus

Welcome to Wikimedia Commons, Walgamanus!

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-- Wikimedia Commons Welcome (talk) 13:45, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

Category:Cairns in Wales

Not all cairns are tombs, which is what your categorisation implies. Please think about what you're doing. Rodhullandemu (talk) 22:10, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Tombs/Graves

Why do you think they are the same? They aren't. Rodhullandemu (talk) 15:15, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

Unless you can seriously justify this, I'm going to revert the lot so you can start a discussion to maybe get some guidance on the difference as we apply it here. Rodhullandemu (talk) 15:24, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

Well I don't really but almost all the images under UK tombs (and there were a vast amount) were monuments not tombs. I have almost cleared them into their correct categories now and the county-based tomb categories are now all empty. Redirection to graves seems the best way to stop them filling up again with monuments as the sub-categories from graves includes grave markers as well as various types of graves and tombs. Walgamanus (talk) 15:26, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

We can always leave tombs as is if you like, but the categories will fill up with monuments and will need constant monitoring Walgamanus (talk) 15:30, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

Here's how I've always seen it:

• 
  this is a grave
• 
  this is a gravestone
• 
  this is a tomb

Tomb has many variations in definition, I know. But if we stick to a structure on top of a grave, or in which someone is buried, we'll be OK. As for "External chest tombs" and "external tomb chests" try Googling. Five for one, mostly of one example, and four for the other. It's a term in such sparse use that I think we could lose it without any confusion. A tomb is of necessity a monument but monuments and burial places are traditionally kept separate. Rodhullandemu (talk) 15:42, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

A tomb has to include a burial space. A monument does not. There's a gallery on this and more info on Wikipedia. The picture that you are calling a tomb does not have a burial space. The burial is in the earth underneath. It is therefore just a monument. (I agree that, if it is immediately above a grave, it is a grave monument - although strictly speaking you don't know that, it could be a cenotaph). Because there is no burial within the structure itself, art historians call them tomb chests or tomb-style chests. This convention has been established for some years on Wikimedia Commons. I'm just following what's already there. As I said, I'm happy to not do any redirects, but the tomb categories will then only include mausolea/catacombs/sarcophagi/tumuli/burial vaults/etc. Walgamanus (talk) 16:02, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

The problem with using Wikipedia's definitions from Tomb is that they are probably wrong, and unsourced in this case. Their entry for "church monument", for example, is a redirect to "Funerary art/Christianity", a long-winded list of examples but no definitions. I don't how you can say Mayer is not interred in that structure rather than underneath it, because I don't have x-ray vision. But our categories are meant to help people find things, and I believe most people would call that a tomb rather than a monument. I prefer Ockham's Razor in this case. Rodhullandemu (talk) 16:27, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

That is my aim to. There is probably a way of amalgamating both points of view by creating a tomb-style monument category under both tombs and monuments and then you can reach what you're looking for from both angles. Walgamanus (talk) 16:32, 4 September 2021 (UTC)