User talk:Nbarth/Archive 2010

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Harold I. Pratt House

hi Nbarth,

well thank you for asking. I had to reverse the move you did on Wikipedia though, because the person's article is under "Harold I. Pratt", so logically the house has to follow his name. Would the person's article be under "Harold Pratt" then I would be fine with "Harold Pratt House". The middle initial seems to be widely used for persons in New York and their houses, so I would say it would be best to keep it there. Gryffindor (talk) 01:55, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

Hi Gryffindor,

I agree that the person’s name is listed with the middle initial, as it is necessary for disambiguation of personal names. However, the house is generally not referred to with the middle initial.

While the desire for consistency and lack of ambiguity are both important, policy (as per Wikipedia:Article titles) is:

“Articles are normally titled using the most common English-language name of the subject of the article.”

For example, it’s “Bill Clinton”, not “William Jefferson Clinton”, and, more relevant to our purposes, it’s “Bohr model” (of atom), not “Niels Bohr model”, even though it is named after Niels Bohr.

In this case, the common name omits the middle initial – the house’s website itself omits the initial, and there are 20,000 Google hits for “Harold Pratt House”, but only 200 for “Harold I. Pratt House”, mostly Wikimedia ones.

On this basis, I conclude that the “most common English-language name” of the house is “Harold Pratt House” and that Wikipedia policy is for it to be listed under that name.

Wikimedia commons does not have settled naming policy (Commons:Naming categories), so naming there is debatable, though following ’pedia seems sensible.

Does this reasoning sound reasonable and in line with policy to you?

—Nils von Barth (nbarth) (talk) 03:23, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

I appreciate that you are holding a discussion about it. But the literature I am reading here holds middle initials for houses, which was commonly used already back then. If the name of the person was simply "Harold Pratt" I would be fine with "Harold Pratt House", but there is a middle initial for good reason, in order to differentiate between people sharing the same first and last name. Otherwise the naming of the houses would also be inconsistent, some having a middle initital and some not? The homepage does not have the middle initial for marketing reasons, it's easier that way to remember. But I think it really is better to stick to the set, academic format, regardless what modern homepages or Google hits say. Gryffindor (talk) 15:53, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

Hi Gryffindor,

Thanks for explaining your reasoning, and I appreciate your work and contribution on these pages; just interested in some rectification of names.

If Wikipedia followed formal, academic naming for article titles, then yes, the middle initial would be appropriate.

But it does not.

As per WP:COMMONNAME, Wikipedia titles are

“the most common English-language name of the subject of the article”

In this case the common name, informal as it may be, is without middle initial; modern pages and Google hits are relevant and guiding as they establish what is the common name, and policy demands that the common name must be used.

I understand that this is not your preferred title, but the policy seems clear to me.

If we still disagree, I suggest we list this at Requested moves#Contested requests, where experienced administrators may decide it.

—Nils von Barth (nbarth) (talk) 17:44, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

Hi Gryffindor,

As discussed above, to help resolve this, I’ve listed this request at Wikipedia:Requested moves#Contested requests, and copied discussion to Talk:Harold I. Pratt House#Requested move where we can continue discussion.

—Nils von Barth (nbarth) (talk) 00:15, 11 July 2010 (UTC)

Hi Gryffindor,

Move completed at Wikipedia, so page is now at Harold Pratt House.

At Commons the category is Category:Harold I. Pratt House; for consistency it would probably be better to have this as Category:Harold Pratt House, but in the absence of “COMMONS:COMMONNAME”, I leave category naming to your discretion.

—Nils von Barth (nbarth) (talk) 16:55, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

I am not happy about the discussion result on Wiki. However if you want the commons category moved as well, you can have another discussion on that, although I prefer it stays put because there could be multipe Harold Pratts who had a house in this world. Gryffindor (talk) 12:55, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

I’m happy to defer to you regarding the Commons category name (particularly due to lack of guiding policy).

If you’d like to continue discussion on the Wikipedia page name, you can follow the steps at Wikipedia:Dispute resolution (requests); AFAICT the most appropriate at the current stage is Wikipedia:Requests for comment. If you’re unhappy but don’t wish to continue discussion, we can leave it at that.

Regardless, happy editing, and look forward to collaborating whenever our interests overlap in future!

—Nils von Barth (nbarth) (talk) 19:55, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Stroke order

Further information: User talk:Yug#所 stroke order broken

• Again,
  Further information: User talk:Yug#所 stroke order broken
  . :D

File:Statue_of_youthful_Eugene_O'Neill,_New_London,_CT.jpg

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–Tryphon^☂ 08:03, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

You're now a filemover

Hi Nbarth/Archive 2010, you're now a filemover. When moving files please respect the following advice:

• Use the CommonsDelinker link in the {{Rename}} template to order a bot to replace all ocurrences of the old title with the new one.
• Please do not tag redirects as {{Speedy}}. Other projects, like InstantCommons, might be using the file even though they don't show up in the global usage. Deleting the redirects would break their file references.
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Geagea (talk) 23:07, 28 December 2010 (UTC)