User talk:Donald Trung/Archive 345

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Wikipedia translation of the week: 2021-46

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The Netto Question (Portuguese: Questão Netto) was the largest collective action for the liberation of slaves in the Americas. The lawsuit is related to the liberation of 217 slaves in Brazilian lands in the 1870s.

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About · Nominate/Review · Subscribe/Unsubscribe · Global message delivery 02:08, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

Wikidata weekly summary #494

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Tech News: 2021-46

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22:05, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

File:Khu-do-thi-phuong-toan-phat-30.jpg

Hallo Donald Trung, ik vroeg me af of hier niet aan promotie gedaan wordt. Thanks. Lotje (talk) 12:23, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

@Lotje: , Ja, er wordt hier inderdaad reclame gemaakt voor Golden City, Hồ Chí Minh-Stad, maar dat valt niet echt buiten de draagwijdte van de Wikimedia Commons. Als ik zou gokken is het een soort van "gated community" voor rijke mensen (ik bezit ook een huis in één van dit soort gemeenschappen nabij Hanoi), voor zover ik kan zien is de uploader geassocieerd met Golden City, maar ik zou ze wel verzoeken om VTRS-toestemming ter verificatie te verkrijgen. Ik denk dat dit soort uploads hier wel van waarde zijn. De meeste foto's hier hebben een Creative Commons licentie en als deze persoon wil dat ze zoo "attributed" (toegeschreven?) worden is dit niet tegen de regels, vooral sinds de gemeenschap vaak genoeg "Commons:Watermarks" heeft afgewezen om dit soort uploads juist niet te verbieden. Promotie? Ja, educatief? Óók ja. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 13:15, 18 November 2021 (UTC)
@Donald Trung: Bedankt voor de toelichting. Wat dat verzoek om de VTRS-toestemming betreft..., deze kelk laat ik graag aan mij voorbijgaan aangezien mijn kennis van het Vietnamees nihil is. Lotje (talk) 13:19, 18 November 2021 (UTC)
(Edit conflict), @Lotje: , Nu pas zie ik dat ze stukken grond in de nieuwe autonome regio verkopen voor 700.000.000,- koperen munten en dat geïnteresseerden hun via Zalo, Viber, of Mess kunnen bereiken. Dat is inderdaad minder educatief, alhoewel ik wel zou zeggen dat het in de toekomst historische waarde zou hebben. Verder lijkt het account mij de officiële account van de Autonome Regio die dus een nieuwe "gated community" (afgescherme gemeenschap) wil opzetten. Ik betwijfel het of zij hier veel klanten zullen vinden... --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 13:21, 18 November 2021 (UTC)
@Donald Trung: nieuwsgierig als ik ben: heb je er een idee van wat de tegenwaarde van 700.000.000,- koperen munten is in USD? :-) Lotje (talk) 13:29, 18 November 2021 (UTC)
@Lotje: , 30.873,50 Amerikaanse Dollars. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 13:44, 18 November 2021 (UTC)
@Donald Trung: afhankelijk van de oppervlakte van de loten, lijkt het (in vergelijking met de gangbare prijzen hier) spotgoedkoop. Lotje (talk) 13:52, 18 November 2021 (UTC)
@Lotje: , Zoals ik al zei bezit zelf ook een huis in een soortgelijke "gated community" in de Provincie Hưng Yên nabij Hanoi en heb je in Viëtnam met hetzelfde geld veel meer koopkracht dan in Australië en Nederland, alhoewel ik denk dat vastgoed in het Westen kunstmatig duur is dankzij gemeentelijke bouwzonebepalingen en andere factoren zoals weinig constructie en de beschikbaarheid van land. Verder zie ik niet zo zeer in waarom de Overheid van de Autonome Regio (wat trouwens een gedeelde macht is tussen een conglomeratie van grote bedrijven en Viëtnamese overheid is, deze Autonome Regio's zijn theoretisch gezien administratieve divisies maar in werkelijkheid zijn zij privébedrijven die overheidstaken tot zichzelf nemen) reclame wil maken op de Wikimedia Commons, hoeveel mensen denken zij hier te kunnen bereiken? Ik weet niet hoe populair Wikipedia is onder Viëtnamese jongeren maar onder mensen van mijn generatie is het niet iets wat veel mensen vertrouwen. Wat ik denk is dat als je iets via Google (of een andere zoekmachine zoals Ecosia) zoekt dat je dan WikipEdia als eerste (1ste) resultaat tegenkomt en zij daarom deze afbeeldingen nu uploaded zodat zij dan sneller gevonden worden. Khu đô thị Phương Toàn Phát - Golden City heeft nog geen eigen Wikipedia pagina, maar genoeg nieuwsbronnen hebben erover geschreven (sinds 2019) dat het wel benoemenswaardig genoeg is voor Wikipedia.
Maar ja, ik moet nog een persoon tegenkomen die hun boodschappen "via" de Wikimedia Commons doet (alhoewel ik wel een paar munten heb gekocht die ik hier heb "gevonden" dus zou ik niet zeggen dat het helemaal nutteloos is om de Wikimedia Commons as reclameplatform te gebruiken). Ik heb ze al gevraagd om niet actief hier reclame te maken, maar ik moet wel toegeven dat als zij gewoon foto's van het project hier willen uploaden en de gehele proces hoe zo'n stad ontstaat en de evenementen die er gehouden zullen worden dat zij erg waardig voor de Wikimedia Commons kunnen zijn. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 21:02, 18 November 2021 (UTC)
@Donald Trung: Interessante informatie. Mocht je ooit besluiten een pagina aan te maken over "Khu đô thị Phương Toàn Phát Golden City" volg ik graag het verloop. Kan ik vast heel wat bijleren :-) Enne, wat betreft het vertrouwen van de jongeren en anderen in Wikipedia: daar moet ik je gelijk geven. Onlangs nog, toen ik een jonge Ierse vrouw in een museum aansprak over het bestaan van een Wikipedia in de Ierse taal, waar ze misschien informatie kon toevoegen over een bepaald soort schoeisel ooit gedragen door de Ieren, bleek ze totaal geen vertrouwen te hebben in Wikipedia, ...not trustworthy,... people insert their own stuff... etc. Niet bepaald hoopgevend. (zucht) Lotje (talk) 05:31, 19 November 2021 (UTC)
Ik zou eerlijk zijn dat ik niet zou weten welke argumenten wij het beste kunnen gebruiken om mensen te overtuigen om Wikipedia en andere Wikimedia websites te kunnen laten vertrouwen. "Wikipedia, ...not trustworthy,... people insert their own stuff... etc." zij heeft wel gelijk, als letterlijk iedereen kan schrijven wat zij willen krijg je artikelen van variable kwaliteit, het beste wat je dan kan zeggen is dat als je iets fout ziet op Wikipedia dat je het dan zelf ook kan verbeteren, dat is het mooie van Wikipedia, ik zeg vaak tegen mensen "Ja, iedereen kan schrijven wat 'ie wil, dat betekent dat jij ook foute dingen van corrigeren.", plus als je mensen inlicht over hoe je zelf de bronnen in artikelen kan controleren leren zij vaak ook om meer vertrouwen in Wikipedia te hebben sinds zij zelf alle voetnoten en referenties kunnen onderzoeken. Trouwens, dit is de eerste (1ste) keer dat ik de "antwoord-toepassing" ("reply tool") gebruik. Om eerlijk te zijn wou ik gewoon kijken hoe dit werkt. -- Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 21:24, 20 November 2021 (UTC)

This Month in Education: November 2021

This Month in Education

Volume 10 • Issue 11 • November 2021

Contents • Headlines • Subscribe

In This Issue

About This Month in Education · Subscribe/Unsubscribe · Global message delivery · For the team: ZI Jony 16:18, 21 November 2021 (UTC)

Huy Chương Việt Nam Cộng Hòa blog

Possibly eligible if I cut out the medals.

--Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 22:10, 18 November 2021 (UTC) .

Starship Troopers and the subversion of systems

Hello @Slowking4: ,

I prefer writing this here rather than as a private e-mail for the simple sake of transparency and the fact that I like to keep such things in an open record. I was doing some thinking about the very nature of Wikimedia websites and the Wikimedia Commons in particular and found that a lot of it what exists outside of the content, known as "the Meta" (basically the Village pumps, Help desk, Deletion requests, Administrators' Noticeboards, Etc.), is bound to what can best be described as "a bureaucracy designed to not be a bureaucracy" or "an anti-bureaucracy bureaucracy". A lot of what I see is that the bureaucracies created to solve one (1) or a few issues become full-fledged "self-sustaining bureaucracies", as an example I would note how Sockpuppet Investigations (SPI) basically sustains what I would like to call "an admin ecosystem" where participation in this process makes users more likely to gain the status of an administrator and the people within that system will propose their colleagues for the status making it an ever-larger part of administrator culture. This is the essential reason for why deletionism is so rampant, because almost all bureaucracies at the Wikimedia websites surround the deletion of content or the prevention of creation / filtering of creation as opposed to content creation itself. This makes a lot of sense as (almost) all forms of content creation are (thankfully) open to as much users as possible meaning that all special privileges revolve around their management. This is why "the Deletionist Party", as an unofficial "political party" among users (though I think that "the Exclusionist Party" is a better term as it's also about excluding users including sockpuppeteers, IP users, supposed "spammers", supposed users with a "conflict of interest", Etc. rather than actually try to manage the content by improving it), is the dominant "political party" among the "WikiPolitics" of our time.

I don't have an easy answer to this situation for the simple reason because the promotion of this party is "the system as it is designed" and us Inclusionists are only afforded "the tools of creation" while their tools are ever-expanding until the day comes that basically all tools focused on deletion and exclusion will finally have been made, with mass-deletion, mass-blacklisting, mass-blocking, Etc. tools already at the disposal of admins I think that that day is very close or already reached, as in the past few years I haven't really seen that many new exclusion tools being created and only some small tweaks added to them as these have always been given "high priority" and very few new "exclusionary tools" would do much that aren't being fulfilled by the current toolbox afforded to the administrator class (although if you believe that new tools in this category are being developed or could be developed I'd love to hear which you think we will see in the future). The tools themselves also influence the culture as the ability to partially block users could allow useful uploaders to continue uploading.

One story I think that really tells about subversion and the subversion of expectations is that of Starship Troopers, both the book and the film, in fact also the anime (Japanese cartoon, though as your user name is that of an anime character I don't think that I have to explain that to you). In the story philosophy and history gets regularly discussed and how the world turned into a totalitarian dictatorship. In the history of the story the dictatorship was established by forgotten veterans that felt thankless by governments that betrayed them, by politicians democratically elected in a Liberal system that didn't care for its fighters, so the fighters created their own bands that would expand and eventually united the world under a new Fascist dictatorship. At least according to the YouTube documentary, I saw on the subject. On a side-note I want to note how the main characters of the book, Juan "Johnny / Juanito" Rico and Carmencita Ibáñez were Asian (Filipino's / Pinoy's) but in the film they were "White-washed" into being blonde haired blue eyed Porteño's, I assumed that they made them Porteño's because Paul Verhoeven wanted to make it for an American audience, but the Japanese (fellow Asian) anime also made Juan Rico into a blonde haired blue eyed Porteño, I personally think that the main reason for this was the destruction of Buenos Aires and it would make the event more important for the story. It just makes it more convenient to cast White American actors for the roles, but it wasn't a decision made to remove the "Asianness" of the protagonist, plus the names of the characters are easily transferable between White (Argentinian) and Asian (Filipino / Pinoy) nationalities. Anyhow, at Wikimedia websites "the war" is fought between the Anti-Vandalism Units and the Trolls, and while the majority of the websites were about content and content creation the vandal-fighters and troll-fighters were the ones that were an afterthought, the majority of discussion is about content and "the content of the content". So a new system dedicated to fighting vandalism, trolling, hoaxes, Etc. was formed and many smaller sub-groups formed ("spam"-fighting, "COI"-fighting, sock-hunting, Etc.) and these all became a big Deltionist / Exclusionist hydra that has many heads. This Hydra is the natural creation of a culture that is supposed to be its opposite, to be about the creation of content over the arbitrary deletion of content.

In Starship Troopers all people are subjects but only a few people are citizens, those who serve. At Wikimedia websites we have a similar culture where "metapedians" have essentially more influence, this means that those rewarded by the system are more likely to vote in the system, this is also what we see in admin elections, most votes are cast by the same few people, even if a lot of those people rarely make content edits anymore and mostly concern themselves with "community affairs". I think that a large part of this culture is based on a cyclistic expansion of the current Exclusionist through a system similar to Starship Troopers' "Service guarantees citizenship"-like mentality that fighting "disruption" is essentially more important than content creation, most barnstars are for fighting "disruption" and not for content creation or even content categorisation. Maybe I'm missing something out with my hypothesis, what do you think? You can e-mail me if you want, but I prefer such a discussion to be out in the open. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 22:51, 23 November 2021 (UTC) .

I assumed that you read it after getting a notification, at least if you read those, and archived it immediately to not clutter up this page. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 22:52, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
Starship Troopers and the subversion of systems - Meta email from user "Slowking4".

(feel free to paste this response) 

"an anti-bureaucracy bureaucracy" is really secret rule; see also Jo Freeman: "THE TYRANNY of STRUCTURELESSNESS"

https://www.jofreeman.com/joreen/tyranny.htm

the disorganized bureaucracy is not malice, but convenient for rule by secret tribunals. the system is deletionist / inclusionist agnostic. it is the culture of the anti-social techno-utopians that is deletionist.

this was cemented in the Badlydrawjeff versus JzG episode, where the bully deletionist won, and was a model for subsequent "rule by bully", such as betacommand, and fram. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive248#Notice:_User:Badlydrawnjeff_blocked,_unblocked https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Badlydrawnjeff/Evidence as we also see on commons, where the admins alternately bully, gaslight, and ghost.

this is a techno-utopian authoritarian culture independent of the structure. see also https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Slowking4/Not_compatable_with_an_authoritarian_project

yes, Robert Heinlein was a precursor to the libertarian authoritarianism, which is illustrated in the novel, see also https://gizmodo.com/how-robert-heinlein-went-from-socialist-to-libertarian-1588357827 it is far different than Andre Norton https://www.tor.com/2018/07/23/space-adventure-political-sf-andre-nortons-catseye/

culture change toward real servant leadership, rather than egotist leadership will require resolution by authorities. on english this could be accomplished by UCoC enforcement by Arbcom, which election is now.

-- This email was sent by Slowking4 to Donald Trung by the "Email this user" function at Meta. If you reply to this email, your email will be sent directly to the original sender, revealing your email address to them. To manage email preferences for user ‪Slowking4‬ please visit <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Mute/Slowking4>.


List of South Vietnamese medals, awards, and decorations (1967)

--Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 23:18, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

Vraag van Lotje over medailles

--Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 23:18, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

Hallo Donald Trung, zit hier ook een Eremedaille van de Strijdkrachten tussen denk je? Thanks. Lotje (talk) 05:19, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
Kameraad @Lotje: , neen, dit zijn allemaal Communistische medailles. Van wat ik kan zien is de drager een lid van de Communistische Partij van Viëtnam sinds een aantal medailles strijdmedailles zijn en andere eremedailles van Communistische vergaderingen zijn. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 08:11, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
Tjah, nu blijft de afbeelding dus (voorlopig) bij de Unidentified subjects in Vietnam staan. :-) Lotje (talk) 10:04, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
@Lotje: , Algemene categorieën bestaan. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 10:41, 23 November 2021 (UTC)

Grijntjes
(OLD.).

Create a separate category for these token coins based on the information above.

Signature (Siggy) to prevent automated archiving. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 15:31, 15 November 2021 (UTC) .

Sceau du Dê Thám
(OLD.).

Add it here.

Signature (Siggy) to prevent automated archiving. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 15:32, 15 November 2021 (UTC) .

Help me to investigate
(OLD.).

Hello, can you help me to investigate about a Vietnamese literature work? Several days ago, I've discovered a work about the Vietnam War, which knows as 南方来信 Letter From the South for us. I saw there is an article described that:

According above article, this should be named Letter from the Fatherland in Vietnam (in this article, 祖国来信), including a series of letters talk about the war, this was translated in Chinese in January 1964. In China, this was published between May and July of the same year, and later derived as straight play, manga, and even Peking Opera (I added them in Outline of the Vietnam War). So in China this became the most notable Vietnamese work at the times. If you're able to known about more information about this Letter from the Fatherland, I hope you let me know. Thanks. -- Great Brightstar (talk) 15:43, 25 October 2021 (UTC)

@Great Brightstar: , excuse the late reply as I have a lot of things off-wiki to attend to lately. Anyhow, thank you for bringing this to my attention as I have never heard of the Tổ Quốc Lai Tín (祖國來信) before and it sounds very interesting to me so when I have the time I will investigate it. But as it will be quite some time until I am available again for such things I would advise you to e-mail Lê Minh Khải at "liam.kelley@ubd.edu.bn" as he has a lot of access to PRC-North Vietnamese relations-related works and has wrote about the propaganda from both related to each other. Please update me if he gives you something. --Donald Trung (talk) 19:09, 27 October 2021 (UTC) . --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 15:34, 15 November 2021 (UTC) .

Published photographs to tag
(OLD.).

--Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 23:40, 20 November 2021 (UTC) .

Tech News: 2021-47

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Changes later this week

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.

20:00, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

Wikidata weekly summary #495

Here's your quick overview of what has been happening around Wikidata over the last week.
  • Tool of the week
    • WikiCite Search is a bibliographic search engine for Wikidata that finds articles either by searching for keywords, or by string matching.
  • Development
    • Working on displaying the grammatical features of Lexemes in a particular order in the UI (phab:T232557)
    • Mismatch Finder: continuing polishing before first release. Focusing on making API documentation available and adding a footer to the site
    • The ongoing work on MediaWiki skin improvements especially for Wikipedia will break the search box for Wikidata. We're working on addressing this. (phab:T275251)
    • Migrating a number of components to vue 3 to keep up with the rest of MediaWiki (phab:T294465)

You can see all open tickets related to Wikidata here. If you want to help, you can also have a look at the tasks needing a volunteer.

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