User talk:Dan Koehl/2020

Needs SVG

Hey Dan! I am in rather urgent ned of an svg -ersion of this file. Can you please help? Need to use it quite small, so the lack of focus is OK. Best wishes, --SergeWoodzing (talk) 23:41, 27 December 2019 (UTC)

I have solved this now. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 12:24, 28 December 2019 (UTC)

Thats good, @SergeWoodzing: , I dont have Photosjop on the computer I work now, I downloaded GIMP, but hadnt relly started, when I now saw your message. Dan Koehl (talk) 11:59, 2 January 2020 (UTC)

Thx. Sent you an e-mail recently too about another thing.

Who is she?

Hello again! Based only the mysterious arms that this woman is holding (not on the text below her), who is she? It is about-twisted whether she is Eric's English wife Philippa or his adoptive mother & grandaunt Margaret of Denmark. What would be your educated guess? --SergeWoodzing (talk) 01:03, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

@SergeWoodzing: , I made some unsuccessful efforts to find that heraldry shield, and really dont have a clue. But theres pictures with Margareta and Erik, where Margareta looks much older, so I dont think its Margerata, then more probably Filippa. Dan Koehl (talk) 15:22, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

I've done a lot more research on this now & I believe you are right. Not only because of age but because of the white rose clearly hanging from Phlippa's necklace. See it there? White roses were associated with her brother King Henry VI of England in the time of the artist, Krommeny, and only much later were assigned to another branch of the Plantagenets. The purported arms seem to be a slightly perverted version of the part of Henry's which is on a blue background. We can assume Krommeny was better at jewelry than at heraldry. Phlippa it is then. Best wishes, --SergeWoodzing (talk) 12:30, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

A la vista del escudo de armas, pudiera haber una confusión entre Felipa de Lancaster y su tía del mismo nombre, que fue reina de Portugal al casarse con Juan de Avis 81.32.119.8 21:38, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

SVG coat of arms

Vapensköld för svenska adliga ätten Makeléer

New shield for official Swedish baronets

Are you still making coat of arms for Swedish noble families? I have been working on them at Wikidata and would love one for Makeleer. Why did your Hillsborough High School image get deleted, do you need a new one, I live just a few minutes from there. My family also has a connection to Harnosand. See Anton Julius Winblad who learned to play the organ there. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk • contribs) 00:01, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

Dear @Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ): , yes Ill be happy to make that coat of arms, within shortly, It seems though, that shield was only used by the first one who was nobled in Sweden, (Johan eller Hans Maclean (Makeleir), adlad Makeléer, till Gåsevadholm), while his descndants were using this File:COA family se Macklean (1784).svg, as well as this: File:COA_family_sv_Makeléer.svg. Dan Koehl (talk) 06:27, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

Thanks! Do I have an error here at Hans Christoffer von Rohr I (Q20706196). Click through to Commons and once source has the COA with wavy lines and the other does not. RAN (talk) 06:31, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

@Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ): here is the shield for family Makeleer. Dan Koehl (talk) 18:33, 11 February 2020 (UTC)

Stunningly beautiful, thank you! Maybe you would be best to check who gets which of the three arms awarded branches of the family. Hans Maclean appears to get two. One awarded by England and one by Sweden. I am not sure which descendants should display which. See Category:Makeléer noble family --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 19:37, 11 February 2020 (UTC)

Dear @Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ): , Im happy you liked it. I guess Ill make the blue background lighter, maybe skyblue, to get more contrast, and not such a dark appreance. To you questions, (please also read - with google translation - the article i made today about the Makeléer family. If I have understood right, the shield with flowers was awarded to Hans Makeléer, but maybe already in next generation, and maybe he himself, used the golden shield with red chevron, and three red roses, as can be confirmed from Johan Cronman, his daughters son, who incorporated parts of that shield into his own, although he changed colors, and made the chevron blue instead of red.

Further on, when the family was officially granted "baronet" status in Sweden (friherre) due to efforts from freiherr Rutger_Macklean the shield was now developed more as can be seen to the right, where the previous shield was made the heart shield, and other parts were taken from the Maclean clan.

It seems however, that all his efforts, trying to trace his roots back to the Macleans, and even changing his name, and his shield, this ancestry can not be confirmed, and modern Swedish historicans doesnt have confidence it the stories about being born on castles in Scotland etc. I have no detailed insight myself, but just want to put the attention to that a lot of pedigrees in old times were made up after verbal legends, and when they are double checked from sources today, it seems a lot can not be confirmed. Dan Koehl (talk) 20:22, 11 February 2020 (UTC)

I would love to see some of the dissenting references. Can you point me to links on the topic. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 20:34, 11 February 2020 (UTC)

@Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ): , Im just now going through some genealogy documents, and I hope to get back you very soon about this. Meanwhile, Id be interested in your ancestry from Härnösand, its possible we may be related. ;) Dan Koehl (talk) 20:49, 11 February 2020 (UTC)

You can see which references link the families at his entry wikidata:Q5971007 and peek at "described by source" then look at the reference quote including the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography. Do you have your genealogy online yet? --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 00:21, 12 February 2020 (UTC)

@Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ): , yes, my genealogy is located, among other places, at my page at geni.com, from where, following my grandmother Nordlander born in Härnösand, the ancestry in Ångermanland goes back to at least 1600, and in some branches to 1400.

Reg the family Makeleers connection to the scottish clan Maclean, there seem to be not one evidence for that. Before granted nobility in Sweden 20 May 1649, he used a pretty simple stamp with his initials only, and only after 1649, he used a noble shield, with the 5 flowers, as did his son Jacob the younger. It seems, only after 1650, he is referred to as Sir in English sources, and after 1652 as baronet, and after this his son David becomes Swedish baron 1708. David starts to use the shield with red chevron before he became baron. Only after 1784, when the entire family is granted baronet status in Sweden, (due to the letter from 1650) did Davids descendants, two brothers start to use the name Maclean, after Rutger Macleans correpondence with Maclean family in Scotland, while the rest of the family, now also baronets, used the name Macklier. Not one source, not one evidence, makes the affiliation with family Maclean evident, however. Older genealogy in sweden, also on the house of the lords, integrated a line from Macleans, but this has been removed since, when not one single document can proove that. It can also be added, that IF this would have been the case, surely Hans Makeleer would have used the name Maclean, and the Maclean shield, already from his start in Sweden. Dan Koehl (talk) 00:56, 12 February 2020 (UTC) EDIT, maybe you can use Google translate, to read the document BIDRAG TILL SLÄKTEN MAKELIER (MACKLIER)— MACLEANS HISTORIA from page 31 (you can download an online version), written by en:Bengt Hildebrand, a famous Swedish genealogist, who totally drops the idea about a connection between the two families, due to total absence of any poof what so ever.Dan Koehl (talk) 01:04, 12 February 2020 (UTC)

I am following you at Geni, do you also have your tree at Familysearch? It has transcribed documents you can link to your tree, and it is free. They are working with ArkivDigital to index the church books that they have rescanned in high resolution and color. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 02:27, 12 February 2020 (UTC)

@Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ): , I will look into Familyserach, Sounds interesting. Regarding entry wikidata:Q5971007; 1. it seems heraldry are referred to there, which this person never used, and his son Jacob also did not. 2. Regarding the name John Maclean I highly doubt that this has any prime source (IF it has, then sensational!). If the only source for this is Oxford Dictionary of National Biography, then Im afraid they may have used the pedigrees from Gustaf Elgenstierna, Den introducerade svenska adelns ättartavlor. 1925-36, which is today documented full with errors, and scan not be relied upon, without any second source backing up the statements. Probably some 70% may be OK, in not controversial issues, while, as in this case, a prime source should be referred to, that he used that name, and the heraldry described. I only looked into this a couple of hours, but the indication is that it was all made up by Rutger Maclean (who, together with his brother Gustav, took the name Maclean around 1873 or 1874, when the baronet branch of the family was introduced on Swedish Riddarhuset, while the rest of his family did not. And Gustaf Elgenstierna seem to have accepted the records, without looking deep into if the statements could be sourced or not. But Ill continue checkup on this. Theres is hardly doubt that he was Scottish, (although we dont know for sure), and the family intermarried with other Scottish families in Sweden, but thats not a confirmation, that he was a descendant of the Maclean family, and not really a proof that he was from Scotland either, as far as I can understand from what I have read. Dan Koehl (talk) 04:43, 12 February 2020 (UTC)

• If you look at Bengt Hildebrand (Q5805326) I added a link to his entry at Geni and I created an entry at Familysearch where he is linked to his appearances in the Swedish Household examination books. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 05:14, 12 February 2020 (UTC)

@Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ): , Reg your queston above, concerning Hans Christoffer von Rohr I (Q20706196), really have no idea, two sources is the house of Lords in Finland, where theres waves, as well as with adelsvapen.com. Dan Koehl (talk) 14:15, 12 February 2020 (UTC)

• If you already downloaded the article SLÄKTEN MAKELIER (MACKLIER)— MACLEANS HISTORIA, can you email it to me so I can upload it to Familysearch, I am richard.arthur.norton at gmail. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 14:28, 12 February 2020 (UTC)

You tried to CC me on an email, It did not come through, if you want to send me a copy, you can use the same email. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 18:41, 12 February 2020 (UTC)

Erican arms?

Grave cover Hollinger of Sweden († 1248)

Hey Dan! I saw somewhere, I think it was on Swedish Wikipedia, where you had commented on the arms of the Erican dynasty (Erikska ätten) that it was the same as the Bielbo dynasty's (Bjälbo) background, that is without the lion & the hearts. What is your source for that? Because of a book release coming up this spring, I need to know asap. Thanks! --SergeWoodzing (talk) 10:10, 1 March 2020 (UTC)

Its indeed interesting @SergeWoodzing: , and I promise to get back to on the subject within a day, first its based on Holmger Knutssons, coa, but it seems same coa was used by others within the Eric family. The last Erik Eriksson seems to have used three leopards, while his sister, Birger jarls wife, if I remember right, used the the three streams.

Meanwhile, somehwere to start for you, you can see that coat of arms on the textile from Holmger Knutsson, Hans gravtäcke från andra hälften av 1400-talet förvaras nu i Historiska museets textilkammare link to online pictures and there are visible the three streams that later made the background on the royal Bjelbo coat of arms. Read also about "Det bekanta gravtäcket från Holmger Knutssons grav i Sko klosterkyrka"

Interesting also is that this makes Swedish heraldry older, since the coat of arms on Holmgers coins are from 1180, long before the present official coat of arms of Boberg family, dating 1219. see wasling page.

Personally, I start to think this was the reason why Gustav Vasa put his weapon on the background of the eka coat of arms, he copied what Birger Jarl did before, making a fusion of two families.

Dan Koehl (talk) 11:26, 1 March 2020 (UTC)

Very interesting so far - thank you! --SergeWoodzing (talk) 12:00, 1 March 2020 (UTC)

@SergeWoodzing: , did you see the picture of the heraldry on Holmger Knutssons textile Grave cover? Dan Koehl (talk) 14:40, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

i certianly did. How do we know for sure what's what? --SergeWoodzing (talk) 21:34, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

We dont, @SergeWoodzing: . But Id say the indications lead to an increased interst, to research more. Please see, so far changes to sv:Knut Långe (ancestry), sv:Holmger Knutsson (gravtäcket), sv:Erikska ätten (gravtäcket), Bjälboättens oäkta gren, vapnet, and Bjälboätten, vapnet. Dan Koehl (talk) 22:24, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

It seems also @SergeWoodzing: that before the present cross flag of Sweden was used, a flag with three stripes was used, which looks very much like the coats of arms to the left on the textile. Most probably, the three stripes in the Stora Riksvapnet, with origin from the royal line of Bjälboättens COA, also goes back to those three stripes, which are background to Bjälboättens lion.Dan Koehl (talk) 13:40, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

Radering

Hej!

Vid radering av osannolika omdirigeringar kan man begära snabbradering under CSD G2 vilket är ett av kriterierna för snabbradering. Detta görs genom {{SD|G2}}. {{Delete}} används bara när raderingen kräver en lite längre diskussion. Ha det gott!Jonteemil (talk) 18:18, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

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EugeneZelenko (talk) 15:46, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

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Skogselefant

Hej Dan. Har du en större, mer högupplöst version, av File:Loxodonta cyclotis.jpg? Mvh – GeMet [talk] 13:13, 22 July 2020 (UTC)H

Hej @GeMet: , möjligen, eller troligen, har jag det på någon äldre hårddisk i Sverige, men befinner mig strandad i Phnom Penh med en ny dator, där den bilden saknas.Dan Koehl (talk) 13:33, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

Ingen brådska, jag tyckte bara den var i lite minsta laget. Allt gott. – GeMet [talk] 13:42, 22 July 2020 (UTC)