User talk:Canbrit01

Welcome to Wikimedia Commons, Canbrit01!

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File tagging File:Steve Kent signature large.jpg

This media may be deleted.

Thanks for uploading File:Steve Kent signature large.jpg. This media is missing permission information. A source is given, but there is no proof that the author or copyright holder agreed to license the file under the given license. Please provide a link to an appropriate webpage with license information, or ask the author or copyright holder to send an email with copy of a written permission to VRT (permissions-commons@wikimedia.org). You may still be required to go through this procedure even if you are the author yourself; please see Commons:But it's my own work! for more details. After you emailed permission, you may replace the {{No permission since}} tag with {{subst:PP}} on file description page. Alternatively, you may click on "Challenge speedy deletion" below the tag if you wish to provide an argument why evidence of permission is not necessary in this case. Please see this page for more information on how to confirm permission, or if you would like to understand why we ask for permission when uploading work that is not your own, or work which has been previously published (regardless of whether it is your own). Warning: unless the permission information is given, the file may be deleted after seven days. Thank you.

 

     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 11:59, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

Blocked -- Uploading deleted images

You have uploaded File:Steve Kent - Chair of the Board & Chief Commissioner - Scouts Canada 01.jpg a third time after being warned not to recreate it. I'm giving you a week off to consider whether you would like to continue working on Commons within our rules or to fight them.

If you believe that the image was deleted incorrectly, the correct procedure is to ask for undeletion at Commons:Undeletion requests, not simply upload it repeatedly. You were told that above.

For the record, the first two uploads were named File:Steve Kent - Chair of the Board & Chief Commissioner - Scouts Canada.jpg, but all three are the same image.
Also, the identical images File:Steve kent MHA.jpg and File:Steve_kent_mha_nov2008.jpg      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 11:30, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

You have been blocked from editing Commons. The reason for the block is available in the block log as is the name of the administrator who blocked you. If you believe this block is unjustified, you may add {{Unblock}} below this message explaining clearly why you should be unblocked. For more information, see Appealing a block.

     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 11:56, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

Honestly the commons are not an easy place to work in for a novice user, in comparison to other sites (wikipedia). I understand that you want me to stop uploading for a week, but I can't even communicate with Zoofari to figure out what I'm doing wrong and fix things. Canbrit01 (talk) 13:53, 20 April 2011 (UTC)!

We try to be as helpful as possible to newbies -- we were all beginners ourselves at one point. I think we tend to stretch that more than some other parts of the WMF projects, because we have many users who do not have a common language. Most Admins respond rapidly to questions from all users, whether on the user's talk page, the Admin's talk page, or on Commons:Administrators' noticeboard.

With that said, though, there are limits to our patience. The third upload of the Scout picture passed my limit. On April 16, I posted "Please do not recreate deleted content" above. I think that is an unambiguous warning not to upload the image again. On April 18, you did so. What did you expect?

The overall problem is that you have uploaded a number of images of Steve Kent which show him as the subject, the source, and the author and no relationship to you. In general, the subject of the image is not the author -- obviously there are exceptions, photographs taken with a self-timer and painters' self portraits -- but they seem unlikely here. It is equally unlikely that Steve Kent owns the copyrights for all of them -- photographers very rarely sell unrestricted licenses for their photographs, but even if he does, there is no evidence that you have any right to upload them.

You have pointed out in the Deletion Requests that they all have OTRS pending tags, but those are old and the current OTRS backlog is not long. It seems unlikely to me that a satisfactory license is actually going to be forthcoming through OTRS -- I could be wrong, but it seems unlikely.

I would be happy to be shown to be wrong or unreasonable in your case, but so far you appear to be a new user

• who bulls ahead against a clear warning
• who claims that OTRS e-mails have been sent when it appears they have not.

That's not a good start here -- we have more than ten million media files and 257 Administrators watching over them. We don't have a lot of time for people who don't ask questions when they don't understand something.

Since you've invoked ZooFari's name, I've asked him to take a look at this.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 15:48, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

Let's take this one image at a time then. I think I've got http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Loyola_Sullivan.jpg fixed now (tagged by Jameslwoodward). OTRS permission has been sent in, let me know what needs to be done otherwise. Canbrit01 (talk) 17:29, 20 April 2011 (UTC)!

--

Looks like the orginal infraction is fixed now [Ticket#2011042010010557] File:Steve Kent - Chair of the Board & Chief Commissioner - Scouts Canada 01.jpg

I am concerned about some of the comments which have been made such as this one: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Steve_Kent_in_the_house.jpg

What process must I go through now to get images undeleted if the OTRS permission has already been sent through? Canbrit01 (talk) 18:56, 20 April 2011 (UTC)!

Hi Canbrit01. Let's organize what's going on with the files. File:Loyola_Sullivan.jpg and File:Steve Kent - Chair of the Board & Chief Commissioner - Scouts Canada 01.jpg supposedly have verified OTRS tickets. They are resolved, maybe. Next there is an OTRS email in the system that mention these four files:

• File:Steve_Kent_in_the_house.jpg
• File:Steve_kent_mha_nov2008.jpg
• File:Steve_Kent_signature_large.jpg, Resolved
• File:Steve Kent Pearlgate Recreation Multiplex.jpg

The signature image is resolved because signatures do not require permission as far as I know. The other three are still unverified because there have been some concerns. The OTRS agent has responded to the sender requesting some more information, so the person who sent the email should follow up with the OTRS agent until it can be verified. Now, let's talk about the deleted files. I only know two deleted files that you might be talking about. One of them is File:Steve Kent - Chair of the Board & Chief Commissioner - Scouts Canada.jpg, but that is the same image as File:Steve Kent - Chair of the Board & Chief Commissioner - Scouts Canada 01.jpg which is supposedly already resolved (remember that you ignored the warnings about reuploading). I have to admit that there is something peculiar with that permission. First you mention that the author is "Scouts Canada" from the source "http://www.scouts.ca/dnn/Portals/0/Scouts%20-%20Steve%20Kent%20-%20Oct%2008%20-%20dark.jpg", but when you reuploaded the file, you say that Steve Kent is both the source and author. What's going on here? Please clarify whether the files have authentic permission. The other deleted file is File:Steve kent MHA.jpg, which is the same as File:Steve_kent_mha_nov2008.jpg. Again, you completely change the author and source information when you reuploaded. Not only do we question the permission claims, but it is also the type of impatience Jameslwoodward was talking about regarding reuploading. The next step for you is just to clarify this, and we'll go from there. --ZooFari 22:52, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

[added after edit conflict -- I wrote the following at the same time ZooFari was writing above. Amazing how similar they are.]

Wow. Quick work with two politicians. We are stretching a little with respect to the Scouts picture -- Kent simply declared that the image was made by a friend at his request -- normally we would require the actual photographer to provide the release, but we do cut a little slack for senior politicians.

I have unblocked your account. I hope you have a little better understanding of how we work, now, and can avoid trouble. Please just ask -- don't just bull ahead.

Recap:

• File:Steve Kent - Chair of the Board & Chief Commissioner - Scouts Canada 01.jpg OK (but not great) OTRS received, undeleted.

• File:Loyola_Sullivan.jpg OK, good OTRS received, DR closed

The following three have the same problem:

• File:Steve Kent Pearlgate Recreation Multiplex.jpg
• File:Steve kent mha nov2008.jpg
• File:Steve Kent in the house.jpg They are not OK, the release was from Steve Kent, but he did not elaborate on the photographer. He really should ask the photographer to send the release, but we will settle for Kent's declaration that it was a work for hire (hire does not require actual payment).

     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 23:13, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

--

Right I think I'm figuring this out now. The first problem I had was how to communicate with admins/users. Can I assume that this is the best method then? Thanks for all of your help so far, clearing this all up.

I'll answer ZooFari first and try not to repeat myself. The OTRS Agents questions went to someone who is not 100% on the answers, so I shall try to assist with your guidance. Expect a response to the agent to come through by the morning. This was my first time uploading images into the commons. What I knew then is vastly different from what I know now. The reuploading of images was a mistake, the OTRS permission took a while to be sent through then the image was deleted, so then I thought it was best to start from scratch and learn from my mistakes. Looks like I’ve made different ones this time, which I will learn from. To clarify, Steve Kent is with Scouts Canada and at times its hard to differentiate the person from the organisation as to some they appear synonymous. After the first set of problems, I talked to the subject of the images to ascertain who took the photos to find out that it was “work for hire”.

Jim, thanks for the clarification on “work for hire” this does make more sense, given the context of when/why the photos were taken. I pass on the information so that the updated information can be sent on to OTRS agents. I think I can see the end of the tunnel now.

Canbrit01 (talk) 02:11, 21 April 2011 (UTC)!

Glad to hear a foreseeable resolution. Thanks for clarifying. --ZooFari 02:50, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

That's all good. None of this is terribly hard, but we do have certain hoops that must be dealt with.

One comment. Almost all of us on Commons like to have conversations where both sides are in one place, so both ZooFari and I have your talk page (this page) on our watch lists and and, as you said above, will respond to messages you leave here for a while. When this conversation dies down, then at some point, I will take this page off my watchlist and if you want to start a new conversation with me, you will need to go to my talk page and start it there. If you do that, you will need to check "Watch this page" above "Save page" when you're finished leaving the message.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 10:25, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

Well that all makes more sense now. So after OTRS permission has been received and updated, when would an image have it's nomination for deletion removed? Canbrit01 (talk) 03:37, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

Three possibilities:

• Routinely, DRs are can be closed a week after their creation, so one or more of us will go through the seven-day-old log daily and close most of them -- although it is not an organized process, it works. You might add a comment to each of the DRs that a new e-mail is expected.
• When the new e-mail arrives at OTRS, the OTRS volunteer will tag the image with the new information and may close the DR.
• And,of course, when you see the new information posted, you could ask one of us to close them.

     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 11:56, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

--

Thanks looks like they're all slowly getting fixed now, your advice has been very helpful. When can I tidy up this page, is it OK to delete some of the previous subjects/talking points after they have been dealt with, or is there some other protocol on this? So in future, if I need an administrator to answer a question, where do I post it? Canbrit01 (talk) 23:58, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

You can archive your talk page so that you can preserve past discussions. This can be done several ways, but first you should decide if you want to archive by age, number of sections, or manually.

• To archive by age you can use a bot to automatically archive each section depending on their age. For example, this section can be archived once it is 3 days old without editing. Instructions for setting a bot are here.
• To archive by number of sections I recommend as many sections as you feel comfortable with before archiving. This is how I archive my talk page. Wait for your talk page to grow a certain amount of sections (15 or 20 is good number) and then move your talk page to a subpage such as User talk:Canbrit01/Archive/1 using the move button.
• To archive manually then simply copy the sections you want to archive and paste them into a subpage (like the example above).

You can obtain general help at the Help desk, administrator help at Commons:Administrators' noticeboard, or Commons:Village pump where community discussions take place. You can also come by my talk page or Jameslwoodward's talk page and we'd be happy to help (we are both administrators). --ZooFari 00:39, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

ArchiveBot

Hi, I noticed you have set up User:MiszaBot to archive your talk page. Unfortunately, the bot has stopped working, and given how its operator is inactive, it is unclear when/if this will fixed. For the time being, I have volunteered to operate a MiszaBot clone (running the exact same code). With that said, your input would be appreciated at Commons:Bots/Requests/ArchiveBot 1. Regards, FASTILY 07:44, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for offering to help. Feels like it's been ages since I made the request for help with the archive. --Canbrit01 (talk) 17:18, 24 April 2014 (UTC)