User talk:Artamart

Welcome to Wikimedia Commons, Artamart!

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-- Wikimedia Commons Welcome (talk) 08:51, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

Welcome and warning

User:Artamart, you are completing your first week in Commons today and you already began to revert experienced users without having -as I will show below- any idea about our ways and deeds here. You opened a new cat, Category:Women's beach handball players from Turkey‎, for which I thanked you. I added that cat to Category:Female handball players from Turkey, where it belongs, as the people in there are all female handball players. I see that you had no objections to that contribution of mine until this moment. Later, naturally, I began to remove the cat Category:Female handball players from Turkey, which I myself had initiated (a couple of years ago) and added to those individual cats before, when we had no Category:Women's beach handball players from Turkey‎. To my surprise I saw you, in an incomprehensible way, beginning to re-add those Female handball players from Turkey cats to individual people cats within Category:Women's beach handball players from Turkey‎. Therefore these people are "twice" under Category:Female handball players from Turkey, something which goes against our categorization principles and practice. As if that was not enough, you also began a campaign to remove the Category:Women of Turkey by name from each of those female sportspersons' individual cats, with a ridiculous edit summary about women and girls! (You even happened to forget that you yourself opened the cat "Women's beach handball players‎" for them. :) Look, we have similar "women by name" cats in many junior female sportsperson cats and child actresses from all around the world. Are you going to begin a clean up campaign for all those cats too? Your DRs about adolescent girl pictures in Commons really worry me. If you observe the DRs I opened or participated and see my attitude about unnecessary nudity, you will understand that you succeeded in surprising the person most caring on the issue. Now, returning to our subject, I really (sorry to say this) doubt your revert motives (anger?) as you did not only change in my edits things about what you claim to defend but carried away other correct edits, as in this case by a user who has many thousands of edits and other contributions here and patrols newcomers. I suspect the motive of your edits because you removed the "women by name" category even from the female coach of these youngsters, who is a married woman!

I will be open to you: Revert your wrong edits and also read, observe and learn our ways of doing things here. I have met here obstinate people before and for a personal choice always stayed inactive, even went away not to quarrel. This time I will not. If you continue the escalation you will find yourself in a platform where you will have to convince people that your edits are not disruptive or will face blocks. Take care. E4024 (talk) 21:00, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

Warmer welcome

Beach handball Euro 2019 Preliminary Round Women TUR-NOR 046

Hi. I understand the first week syndrome (something that I invented the first time I entered some WM project, changing everything to my own taste without respecting the accumulated collective experience or community culture :) is passing and you're making a sincere effort to understand and apply our ways and customs here. Now I will ask you a help: Please write me the names of the players at the image, together with their chest numbers, so I will use this and other images in their respective WD items. To give your answer you have to click the title of this talk chapter and use the button for "edit source". To keep a dialogue in order, we respond after adding a ":" at the beginning of our first sentence. Good luck und auf wiedersehen. --E4024 (talk) 20:55, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

4 İrem KÖSELER 10 Sibel Karameke KICIROĞLU 8 Buket KESKİN CENGİZ 12 Esma ADNAR

These two players have new last names, the category names for their pictures should be amended 7 Merve ADIYAMAN ÖZBOLLUK 14 Nurceren AKGÜN GÖKTEPE

Not really. Women get married and get divorced. We do not change their surnames all the time. We only add at WD. (Want me to show you examples?) Thanks for the information also. --E4024 (talk) 15:48, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Ah, another thing: You are doing a whole lot of extra, unnecessary work like adding "defaultsort" to categories. There is no need for them as long as we make a complete WD item for every player. Then their names and surnames enter into an "automatic" order everywhere... Take care. --E4024 (talk) 16:00, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

why is 'Category:Female handball players from Turkey' deleted for player İrem Köseler?

Women are females

Hi. Category:Women's beach handball players from Turkey is already under Category:Female handball players from Turkey. Therefore, those handball players from Turkey who are in Category:Women's beach handball players from Turkey do not need to be categorized "also" under the Category:Female handball players from Turkey. Is it too complicated? --E4024 (talk) 17:34, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

All Women's beach handball players are also Female handball players but not vice versa. There is no pure beach handball player. Why single out only player İrem Köseler? Shouldn't all women's beach handball players also be listed under female handball players but not all female handball players under women's beach handball players? That was the way before I started editing. Check out the categorisation of the other players prior to my editing. This is not something I created or invented. Shouldn't all females handball players be listed under Female Handball players irrespective of whether they have played beach handball or not? Most Women's beach handball players of Turkey were already listed under Female handball players of Turkey before I edited any category. I just added the missing players. Whichever is the correct way has to be applied generally and not selectively to one player. Alternatively, you could delete the category Female handball players from Turkey from the subcategory Women's beach handball players (and leave that category separate), and then individually add all Women's handball players into category Female handball players from Turkey, and also keep them at category Women's beach handball players separately. Whatever is the correct way should be applied generally to all players wherever applicable. I have no particular preference but whatever is correct should be applied generally. Please have a general look at this. Maybe separating subcategory Women's beach handball players from Turkey from the category Female handball players from Turkey and then keeping individual players at one or both of these categories would be better? Which way is applied for other countries such as Croatia?

Step by step. First learn the use of indent (:) then I will explain you the rest. Please while I am busy doing other stuff, correct your mistakes of categorization. Ah, did you not read my note on how to sign your talk? --E4024 (talk) 17:50, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

I would not do any mistaken categorisation if I knew they were mistakes. You are free to amend. Please keep in mind that all beach handball players are also indoor handball handball players without exception but not vice versa. That means, if you categorise any player as a beach handball player but not as a handball player in general, than that would be a mistake, since that particular player might take part in a indoor handball tournament and any record or image of that would then not be listed under handball players but only under beach handball players which would be a mistake. Once again, you are free to amend, but please keep in mind that all beach handball players are also indoor handball players. Whichever way you categorise individual players have this general point in mind. Thanks.

Looking once again at the categories I think the mistake is the placement of Beach handball players category under the category of Female handball players. Maybe even my mistake. They should be separate, with any player listed under both or one of them depending on their characteristics. Have a look and amend accordingly.