User talk:81.229.40.207

re: NPOV templates ( rude message )

Many of the templates you have made are not NPOV, they are English Wikipedia POV. Some examples of the POV are:

• interwiki links to English Wikipedia get boxes on category pages while other languages only have ordinary interlanguage links
• main articles are always on English Wikipedia, never on other Wikipedias
• interwiki-tmp templates only link to English sisterprojects

I suggest you stop using those templates. If you need to link to English Wikipedia you can use ordinary interlanguge links ([[en:Category:xxx]] or [[:en:page]]) when linking to en.wp. /81.229.40.207 18:44, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Actually, the normal interlanguage links will become rather fundamental to the system proposed that these templates serve as trigger for auto-linking. Specifically:

1. English is used because all sister project types and all sister wiki's use it for linking information,
   1. just as all items here on the commons are required to have annotations in English
   2. and the categories and articles are in English
   3. and ... the interwiki language links are tied to English in the categories here
   4. and ... the interwiki language links are tied to English in the categories on en.wikipedia, which catches some ommisions on one or the other, and overlaps on those with differing category names,
   5. AS ARE the interwiki language links from all languages are tied to English on Wikipedia ON ARTICLES.

Now image you are a program given access to an auxillary data base with all those interwiki links and the datum that the users prefered language is Swedish. Given the template you are complaining about, do you imagine it would be difficult or hard to have that computer take those common links supervised by careful hand editing to point to the correct key links, for the users language of choice. In short, the template will in effect, allow an auto-translation AND LINK to the appropriate page that has been identified as being that language's equivalent to the English Key Word. In computer terms, the English term becomes a pointer to the correct language.

Since the servers processor does thousands of such substitutions in the course of parsing each and every page far faster than we can blink an eye, I don't think it would be hard at all... given the proposed system software changes. If you want to use something difficult and unweildy, try applying this. Hint, it's several pieces, see the similar names in Category:Interwiki utility templates. See some of the few places it's been used, like w:Category:categories or Category:Music.

Now do you really want to complain about the narrow scope of a project which will make those links automatically for anyone viewing the page in their chosen language of the day? Not so narrow is it. Nor so POV, which doesn't translate well in such matters as this. Look up biased, Anglo-centric , and prejudiced as alternatives.

Oh, and the -tmp templates are similarly designed. They need interwiki translations and installation and adaptation to other languages, but the software should work without alteration. As the English projects are in my language, I really had no interest in doing more than providing for that equivilent functionality. I presume any language group which wants to use them understands they can copy them and adapt them to their own language. Someone has to write the first one of anything, and the {{interwikitmp-grp}} tagging has no relation to anything but tools port and adapted to be used on a given language or project. I'm perfectly willing to admit I'm incompetent and should avoid working on every language but English, and some would argue my competence there. If I started porting things to Fr or De or whatever, that would be a real disaster.

Be well. Keep the blood pressure down. // FrankB 18:51, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Xpost answer from Template:Mw (Edit Discussion links Page history)

My you do have some opinions and aren't shy about voicing them.

If you're going to be this active here, sign in, and redirect this page to your talk. Ditto the user pages.

• Just left the below for you Template_talk:Mw. You seem bound and determined to add to my work loading. The problem with these, is they were designed to be site independent, and portable across all sister projects in a given language... as in the above discussion. So you are asking to change many pages on all the sister's potentially, as you did above. As that stands, installing one interwiki per language per template is a distributed and sensible work action. But what abbreviation works in Swedish is an itch it's not my place to scratch. Being a working man, I'm short on time most often these days, and am just now getting back to where I can give some time to wikimedia foundation projects with any regularity. I had real life matters to deal with this past quarter.

Comparisons: mw:Main vs. Main

Hmmmmmmm. Let me have a few days to dig in and see how complex a change this might be. With (apparently now) ten sister's, I'll have to look at links (Template:Mw (Edit Discussion links Page history)) so to see what's the easiest way to segue. I think we can subst a new name in, but it may take a BOT edit on each sister. A lot of work. Assuming say 'Wm' and 'WM' are clear on most other sister projects (and it's likely they weren't or I likely would have used way back when in July), this should be doable, and I'll grant the logic. Danged upstart newcomer projects! <g>

In any event, an equivalent shortcut for the currently more important Meta project will need to be found initially. More importantly, META services the foundation projects, not the external community. So links back to Wikimedia are going to be few and rare. Let me ask some programming talent for recommendations too.

So the best I'll promise now is to take it under advisement and gather information. Best regards // FrankB 21:17, 15 December 2006 (UTC)