User talk:尼古拉叶若夫

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PLA Garrison Positions

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I really like your ORBAT, I have been working on China military locations and pictures for years, I would like to add possible locations of these units you have found. I tried adding the picture but was denied by Wiki because I was using Google Earth images. I hope they will permit me to at least post grid coordinates on your page. I posted 1 already and I hope you are OK with me posting more or if you have a different idea or location to add my work to yours, I would really like to add to this project!

Of course and it's really appreciated. I have little knowledge about the exact garrison position of the PLA units. In this template[[1]] there are A LOT OF unit positions to be added. 尼古拉叶若夫 (talk) 03:23, 21 November 2016 (UTC)~[reply]

People's Liberation Army Ground Force

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Thank you for the information about the People's Liberation Army Ground Force. Here is the OrBat. Can you please check it for errors? Thank you very much for your help and time! Noclador (talk) 05:42, 6 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

(click to enlarge)


Wow! That was wonderful! Awesome! Thank you very very much.尼古拉叶若夫 (talk) 05:54, 6 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Special Operations Brigade, 38th Army stationed in DAXING(Daxing District, see [[2]] for reference) instead of DAXINGI.
The two Pontoon Bridge Brigades (31st and 32nd) are directly subordinated to the Eastern Theater of Operations, instead of 31st Army.

尼古拉叶若夫 (talk) 06:21, 6 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed the 1st error (DAXING). With the two pontoon bridge brigades... don't know how to integrate them now... I designed the chart expecting no units outside of the armies. Noclador (talk) 08:56, 6 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]


There are something more to fix:
  • 160th Mechanized Infantry Division of 54th Army should be 160th Mechanized Infantry Brigade.
  • 52nd and 53rd Motorized Infantry Brigade of Tibet Military District are Mountain Infantry units.
  • 121st Motorized Infantry Brigade of 41st Army, 32nd and 40th Motorized Infantry Brigade of 14th Army are Jungle Infantry units. - Please see note 1 below
  • 14th Armored Brigade of 31st Army is an Amphibious Armored unit.
  • 92nd Motorized Infantry Brigade of 31st Army is an amphibious formation.
  • There are no Army Aviation regiments for 16th or 40th Army, or Tibet Military District.
  • The Long-Range Rocket Artillery Brigades are equipped with PHL-03 MLRS (Chinese version of 9K58 Smerch), so it may be better to use the same symbol with Russian Smerch units, instead of the symbol of an SSM formation.
尼古拉叶若夫 (talk) 12:29, 6 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
PLA Mechanized Infantry formation can be further cataloged as (Army designation listed in brackets for convenience):
  • Tracked APC units: 31st (14), 54th (Tibet), 204th (16), 115th (39), 116th (39), 202nd (39), 188th (27), 160th (54)
  • Tracked IFV units: 34th (12), 35th (12), 62nd (21), 139th (47), 68th (16), 69th (16), 200th (26), 190th (39), 235th (27), 194th (65), 112th (38), 123rd (41) - Please see note 2 below
  • Wheeled APC/IFV units /w tanks: 31st (14), 42nd (14), 122nd (41), 6th (Xinjiang), 127th (54), 113th (38)
  • Wheeled APC/IFV units w/o tanks (/w wheeled SP gun): 178th (1), 58th (20), 60th (20), 118th (40), 162nd (54)
尼古拉叶若夫 (talk) 12:27, 6 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]


And last one: may I have your permission use your splendid military symbols to create my own TO&E figures, like this one?

112th Mechanized Infantry Division (People's Republic of China)'s Order of Battle, from 2011

I'm working on the organization of People's Liberation Army (see [[3]]), and plan to make a lot of OrBat figures. I think it may be better to do it by myself.

Regards, 尼古拉叶若夫 (talk) 17:28, 6 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Notes:
  1. There is no APP-6a symbol for Jungle, so I used a darker color to distinguish them.
  2. You listed the 31st (14) under "Tracked APC" and under "Wheeled APC/IFV units /w tanks" - please specify.
  3. Also: the 61st (21), 203rd (39), 193rd (65) 195th (65) units are not listed in your list of equipment of the brigades/divisions. Do you happen to have some info on these units?
  4. For the 5x Theatre commands: I would like to add the 5x locations where they are based. Do you happen to know them?
  5. For me the number of air assault/airborne units is way too low... are the more units of this type? Should we add them?
Last but not least - you're awesome! You're providing excellent material to work from! It's super-easy and fun to create Orbats in this way. And yes: you may use my work as basis to create your own OrBat graphics. Send me an email (link in the menu to the left) and I will send you the .psd file for the PLA's Ground Force. Also: if you have a need for more OrBats or for help, contact me anytime you want. cheers, Noclador (talk) 17:49, 6 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]


The 31st was a mistake. Officially the 31st is now a Tracked APC unit, however some evidence shows that it is now converting to a Wheeled IFV unit, and I mistakenly listed it in both catalogs. Both 193rd (65) and 195th (65) are re-equipping. They were tracked APC units before but I have no idea what they are transforming to. 61st (21) is a wheeled APC unit, and 203rd (39) still unknown.

The Theater Commands are quite confusing: under each Theater Command there are several Service Commands, in which there is an Army Command of the Theater, and they stationed in different location. I'm not sure which command should be counted in this chart so I will list them both:

  • Eastern Theater of Operations Command: Nanjing, Jiangsu; Army Command of the Theater: Fuzhou, Fujian.
  • Southern Theater of Operations Command: Guangzhou, Guangdong; Army Command of the Theater: Nanjing, Guangxi.
  • Western Theater of Operations Command: Chengdu, Sichuan; Army Command of the Theater: Lanzhou, Gansu.
  • Northern Theater of Operations Command: Shenyang, Liaoning; Army Command of the Theater: Jinan, Shandong.
  • Central Theater of Operations Command: Beijing; Army Command of the Theater: Shijiazhuang, Hebei.

There were indeed ONLY ONE Air Assault brigade in PLA formation, and before 2016 there were NO air assault units AT ALL! The PLA has three Airborne Divisions (43rd, 44th and 45th), but these divisions belongs to the People's Liberation Army Air Force, not the ground force.

And That's Really Appreciated! Thank you very much! And my e-mail address is c. Hoping for your message. 尼古拉叶若夫 (talk) 18:16, 6 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

re. The Theater of Operations Commands - I assume that they are multi-service commands? i.e. air force + army + naval forces? If so, then they should have a central command + 3x sub-commands from each service. (Like the Unified Combatant Commands, which all have a sub-commands for executing service-specific operations. i.e. CENTCOM has: US Army Central Command (USARCENT), US Air Forces Central Command (USAFCENT), US Marine Forces Central Command (USMARCENT), US Naval Forces Central Command (USNAVCENT) and US Special Operations Command Central (USSOCCENT)). Therefore I would assume the Chinese PLA to have similar sub-commands. Noclador (talk) 18:58, 6 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]


Yes, they should be some kind of multi-service commands. But it is hard to say how many sub-commands there are/will be. It is announced that there are now FIVE main services in PLA armed forces: the Army(Ground Force), the Navy, the Air Force, the Rocket Force (former Second Artillery Corps) and the Strategic Support Force. The on-going 2016 China Military Reform is pretty radical and, as a result, unpredictable.

Additionally, I find myself omitting two other units that directly belong to the theater of operations: the 132nd Motorized Infantry Brigade in Wuzhishan, Hainan, and the Hongkong Infantry Brigade in Hongkong, both belong to Southern Theater of Operations. If there are difficulties to deal with this kind of unit, I think we can just ignore any units outside of Armies and make the graphic as the Order of Battle of PLA "Field Mobile Units". 尼古拉叶若夫 (talk) 19:15, 6 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

graphic update

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2x more brigades? Ok, that's too many now to leave out. I added the 4x brigades in question directly under the Theatre commands now. Check out the revised graphic now. Noclador (talk) 20:31, 6 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  1. It's very fine now, I think.
  2. Someone told me that 193rd Mechanized Infantry Brigade is now a Wheeled IFV unit w/o tanks, and 203rd is a Motorized Infantry Brigade, and it seemed that he is right...Sorry for my mistake.
  3. One more question: there were once several "Tank Self-Propelled Artillery Regiments" in some of the PLA divisions, each composing of a tank battalion (24 T-34s) and a SPG battalion (16 SU-76s). Which military symbol should I use to represent this kind of regiment?尼古拉叶若夫 (talk) 01:35, 7 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  1. Thank you
  2. Ok, fixed it. No worries.
  3. Oh... ahem... no idea. This is kinda like the Soviet Machine-Gun Artillery Divisions, for which there is no symbol in APP-6a. In this case I would used the symbok for armored, tracked self-propelled artillery , but with the color used for tank units (not the artillery yellow). Btw. the color scheme I use is the Italian army one. US color scheme is different (much less colors). But I prefer the Italian one, as there is so much information that can be conveyed with colors. Noclador (talk) 13:14, 7 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah that is exactly what I'm thinking about--like this:

112th Army Division, 1960

尼古拉叶若夫 (talk) 13:34, 7 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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