User:Jcb/temp

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The files below have been deleted in the past for copyright/source related issues. Somehow they got undeleted, but without the issues being resolved. The established way to address this, is starting a regular DR. I started those DRs, but somehow the undeleting admin, Yann, decided to speedy revert those nominations, without addressing the issues. I have done all reasonable effort to resolve this with the involved admin, but without any success, except for one restored DR, which is not listed at this page.

For the files below, we first need to know whether we have sufficient information to establish a compatible copyright situation. If everything is in order, we need to find out what to fill in to the empty fields, in order to get the files out of the problem categories.

I will invite several admins to cooperate to clear up this mess. Jcb (talk) 16:35, 16 November 2016 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/File:Robert L Dennison.jpg

  • The hyperlink does not provide any helpful information. No authorship information, unknown copyright situation. The source website does not credit US Navy, so we have no evidence that the PD license is valid.
  • If kept, what to fill in to the author field?
  • If kept, additional source information will be needed, the currently present source page just displays the image, without any information.
Here. http://www.trumanlibrary.org/photographs/view.php?id=219 Reventtalk 16:49, 16 November 2016 (UTC)

✓ Resolved thanks to Revent, I updated the information template. Jcb (talk) 16:53, 16 November 2016 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/File:Rezomb.jpg‎

  • No source and no authorship information. The current PD license is based on nothing. There is simply not enough information present to determine the copyright situation.
  • If kept, the author field and the source field have to be filled in.
I agree, here, that we seem to have nothing but 'this looks really really old'. Reventtalk 17:17, 16 November 2016 (UTC)
I also agree -- and we have a better image of the tomb at File:Thombrez.JPG. .     Jim . . . . (Jameslwoodward) (talk to me) 18:47, 16 November 2016 (UTC)

I have asked Yann if he could agree to open a regular DR for this file, see here, but he refuses to even answer that question. Jcb (talk) 06:46, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

@Jameslwoodward: @Revent: what do you think we should do with this file and File:Rf-4c-68-0568-zr.jpg‎? I think basically we have two options: we can undo the undeletion, or we can start a regular DR. But I think in both cases somebody should try to bring Yann back to reason before taking action on the files, because nobody would gain anything from an edit war between admins. Jcb (talk) 12:53, 17 November 2016 (UTC)
Unless Revent, Jcb, or someone else has a better idea, I'll go to Yann's talk page and tell him that I am opening new DRs on the two files per the discussion here and, that if he agrees, none of Jcb, Revent, Yann, and I will make any comment on the DR beyond the opening. .     Jim . . . . (Jameslwoodward) (talk to me) 14:22, 17 November 2016 (UTC)
Seems fine to me. I propose that the opening statement of the DR contains a link to this discussion. Jcb (talk) 16:03, 17 November 2016 (UTC)
@Jameslwoodward: Any news on this? Jcb (talk) 22:26, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/File:Rf-4c-68-0568-zr.jpg‎

  • This picture was taken in Germany. What evidence do we have that this would be a work of the US government? Could as well have been taken by someone from Germany. The picture may be in some US archive with a credit to a 3rd party. We don't know with the currently present vague source information.
  • If kept, the source field should contain something that can be verified.
There was a stated source in the description, that Yann moved to the source field. Unfortunately, it's 'third hand', and NARA has many images that are not online, but I think AGF applies here, since it is cited to a verifiable source (we just don't have a copy). Reventtalk 17:22, 16 November 2016 (UTC)
The source given is "Image source listed as United States Army Air Forces via National Archives" -- that is not credible since the United States Army Air Forces went out of existence in 1947 and this is a 2004 image. I'd give it 50/50 that this is an image from a US Air Force photographer or from someone else -- maybe the plane's pilot or crew chief. .     Jim . . . . (Jameslwoodward) (talk to me) 18:51, 16 November 2016 (UTC)
@Jameslwoodward: Actually, the 'subject matter' (an RF-4C with a 68 tail number, at Zweibrucken) places the image itself sometime between 1968 and 1991... 2004 appears to be when the CD with this image (History and Units of the United States Air Forces In Europe) was published. You're right that it can't be the "Army Air Force", though. Reventtalk 20:20, 16 November 2016 (UTC)
Fae asked to me add the following here:
"This search shows 280 matches, all seeming to have been transferred from en.wp. The images are well used for such a set, with at least one I noticed having credible references to NARA. The named collator and their connection to the named society is credible, going by https://who.is/whois/usafe-history.net even if the site is no longer there. I suggest adding the lot to a category so that they can be researched further, even though there must remain doubts with the information so far. Thanks --Fæ (talk) 19:57, 16 November 2016 (UTC)"
.     Jim . . . . (Jameslwoodward) (talk to me) 21:25, 16 November 2016 (UTC)

Many of the images shown in Fae's search are very likely images taken from another military plane -- it is unlikely that a civilian pilot could get close enough to a USAF plane to take a picture of it in the air. However, that covers a great many possibilities -- a plane from another NATO air force, a photo by a US pilot or other crew whose MOS is not photography, a civilian contractor flying in the back seat, and so forth. And, of course, that is even more true of images taken from the ground. There is no solid evidence that any of these actually should be PD-USGov. It is certainly possible that the CD from which they were taken is more explicit, but until someone confirms that these are actually all taken by USAF photographers, their being on Commons is problematic. .     Jim . . . . (Jameslwoodward) (talk to me) 21:25, 16 November 2016 (UTC)

I have asked Yann if he could agree to open a regular DR for this file, see here, but he refuses to even answer that question. Jcb (talk) 06:46, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/File:RibbonO.jpg

  • Uploader provided not source or authorship information at all. Could as well be a hobby creation from somewhere, for which the license would not apply.
  • If kept, the author field and the source field have to be filled in.
As noted at UDR, see https://www.uscg.mil/yotf/udc/docs/ribbons_devices.pdf ... this is a 'real' USCG ribbon (the Coast Guard Unit Commendation), with the actual devices that are actually authorized for wear on this ribbon, as it would be worn by 'many' sailors. The 'base image' is itself https://www.uscg.mil/hr/udc/img/UCR.jpg (from a USCG site) with the devices added as they would be officially worn. There is no copyrightable originality here. Reventtalk 17:03, 16 November 2016 (UTC)
I agree with Revent that this is fine -- the PDF makes it clear that it is an authentic ribbon that can have both the "O" and the gold star. .     Jim . . . . (Jameslwoodward) (talk to me) 21:32, 16 November 2016 (UTC)

✓ Resolved, I have updated the information template. Jcb (talk) 21:44, 16 November 2016 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/File:2CRDUI.jpg

  • No source to support that this is indeed an official government version. No authorship information. Could as well be a hobby creation from somewhere, for which the license would not apply.
  • If kept, the author field and the source field have to be filled in.
As noted at UDR, the image is from http://www.tioh.hqda.pentagon.mil/Catalog/Heraldry.aspx?HeraldryId=5451&CategoryId=3110&grp=2&menu=Uniformed%20Services&ps=24&p=0 Reventtalk 16:59, 16 November 2016 (UTC)

Hmm. The Commons image is 192x215px. The two versions at TIOH are 133x150 and 305x344. Except for size, the three look identical. Best thing to do here, I think, is to load the larger one from TIOH and use TIOH as the source. .     Jim . . . . (Jameslwoodward) (talk to me) 21:38, 16 November 2016 (UTC)

✓ Resolved, Revent has updated the information template, I have uploaded the larger version. Jcb (talk) 21:50, 16 November 2016 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/File:3 Velikoe v malom i antikhrist.JPG

  • Insufficient information to determine copyright situation. The current license claims that the author has died over 70 years ago, but there is no authorship information stated.
  • If kept, the author field and the source field have to be filled in.
Did you read UDR? The book is named (and linked) in the description, it's http://catnyp.nypl.org/record=b3847373 and the title page is on Commons at File:1905 2fnl Velikoe v malom i antikhrist.jpg. Reventtalk 17:06, 16 November 2016 (UTC)
I did not read the UDR, but I think it's the task of the undeleting admin to make sure all necessary information is copied from the UDR to the file description page. Jcb (talk) 21:55, 16 November 2016 (UTC)
The author is en:Sergei Nilus, died in 1930. Reventtalk 17:09, 16 November 2016 (UTC)
I agree it's OK per Revent -- and, it's a table of contents, so I don't think it ever had a copyright anyway. .     Jim . . . . (Jameslwoodward) (talk to me) 21:41, 16 November 2016 (UTC)

✓ Resolved, Storkk has updated the information template. Jcb (talk) 21:55, 16 November 2016 (UTC)

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