User:Donald Trung/Letters to Scott Semans/Continued correspondence

From Wikimedia Commons, the free media repository
Jump to navigation Jump to search
One of the many files we have thanks to Scott Semans.

Qing zips (01 D. 11 M. 2018 A.)

[edit]

Two (2) .zip files 📁 were sent as attachments, both were .zip files 📁 I had previously received from Mr. Scott Semans.

"Dear Scott Semans,

Simply forward these two files to “Permissions-Commons@Wikimedia.org” and state that all files in them are released under the same Creative Commons license as your website. That’s it.

You can simply select this e-mail, click “forward”, and then write that you’ll release these files under the Creative Commons 3.0 Commercial ShareAlike Unported copyright license.

By the way, one of your images might end up on the main page of the English-language Wikipedia next month. ;-)

Yours faithfully,
Trung Quoc Don

Sent 📩 from my Microsoft Lumia 950 XL with Microsoft Windows 10 Mobile 📱."

Congratulations, one of your images made the main page of the English Wikipedia (15 D. 12 M. 2018 A.)

[edit]
  • Attachment 📎
    Attachment 📎
  • Attachment 📎
    Attachment 📎

"If you see this mail in time, take a look here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Main_Page&mobileaction=toggle_view_desktop

Your images are priceless. 😊

Sent 📩 from my Microsoft Lumia 950 XL with Microsoft Windows 10 Mobile 📱."

I finally wrote some articles about Indonesian cash coins and amulets (22 D. 03 M. 2019 A.)

[edit]

"https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cash_coins_in_Indonesia&mobileaction=toggle_view_desktop

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesian_numismatic_charm

Sent 📩 from my Microsoft Lumia 950 XL with Microsoft Windows 10 Mobile 📱."

RE: I finally wrote some articles about Indonesian cash coins and amulets (23 D. 03 M. 2019 A.)

[edit]

"Dear Scott Semans,

Well, unfortunately I had to write with the sources I had on cash coins and at the time I didn't want to write an article on Gobogs, it’s basically the last article on cash coins that I didn't cover so I had to write it for both collectors and those interested in the subject. “ I can send you a printed and unpublished article by Bruce Griffith that would really lend perspective on this series. “ Unfortunately unpublished articles can’t be used as a source for Wikipedia as those can’t be verified. ☹ “I think you've got the gist of it, but the focus seems to be more on the junky ritual coins made lately than the important place Chinese cash and their imitations had in the economy. “ again, I can only work with the sources I’ve been given and Dutch people's general disinterest in Nusantaran culture up until the mid-1800’s didn't help either due to the lack of first-hand accounts, meanwhile there’s a treasure trove of French first-hand account of “Annamese Sapèques” (Vietnamese cash coins).

I will actually write about the Palembang Pitis too which are tin coins that largely resemble Chinese cash coins.

“I can also send you more photos if you want them, such as those modern fancy Bali cash, the ca. 1600 "Mint 1" series which are beautiful smaller imitations of Song reign titles and really the core of the indigenous Indonesia tin and mixed metal series that followed, as well as those same degenerated "chicken eye" series, such as the small xian-ping and shi-dan.” Yeah, but I need the sources to back up my writing, I didn't write the “Indonesian cash” article as a definite article but more as “a beginning” for others to expand upon based on the sources I could find. “These were really important circulating money, while the modern stuff from Bali and the like are a footnote.” But unfortunately almost every modern source that mentions cash coins goes on a whole diatribe about how they’re “Chinese lucky coins” or “Chinese spiritual coins” and focuses more on either Feng Shui or Hinduism than their historical significance, the numismatic world largely doesn't take cash coins seriously unless you have the appropriate sources (which I don't), I have Joe Cribb for Gobogs but cash coins are mostly treated themselves as a footnote in most works.

Also concerning images, if you want to send me something for usage in those Wikipedia articles you would also have to e-mail it too to “permissions-commons@wikimedia.org” who will have to verify it. But the list of stuff I still have to import is really long, I’m busy with banknotes now and want to do Bert Lijnema’s ENTIRE Zeno.ru account later (he gave permission, but I’ve only been able to upload 2 (two) images so far because of all the things I wish to import). Unfortunately no-one else on Wikimedia has the same level of passion for these subjects as I have so if I won't upload them now they may “disappear from the internet” in the years that it’ll take for someone who does have that level of passion to replace me. Many websites were lost and though I still find Lars Bo’s website to be “the most expansive” image-wise the 3000+ images I’ve already imported from your website have helped a lot. Though I'm not even done with your website yet, but I want to finish banknotes first.

I think that I’ve largely covered every cash coin now on Wikipedia, though I still never got to write the “List of privately produced Vietnamese cash coins by inscription” article. I’ve made Wikimedia websites “better than Gary Ashkenazy's Primaltrek / Primal Trek for cash coins and equal to it for Chinese charms”, but the lack of images still haunts many sections of many articles, and while I’ve basically been able to include all of David Hartill’s Cast Chinese Coins on Wikipedia (after he himself donated more than half of his book to Wikipedia) the fact that his book has illustrations still makes it “a better catalogue”. My next (and last) “large project” on Wikipedia is Qing Dynasty banknotes and the thing about banknotes is that you can’t own copyright on scans of them if they’re already in the public domain, there are 5000+ different variants of the Kaiyuan Tongbao, almost 900 (nine hundred) different types and over 1800 (eighteen hundred) varieties of Wu Zhu cash coins and Wu Zhu derivatives, according to David Hartill there are 5000+ different Chinese charms, amulets, and talismans (I’ve managed to get only 10% (ten percent of that) on Wikimedia Commons, so far), and between 1912 and 1949 there were over 5000+ variants of Chinese banknotes produced according to the Shanghai Encyclopedia... If I have to choose to focus on one of them it'll be Chinese banknotes because I could just upload scans of them without needing permission. I already uploaded a couple of thousand images of Chinese banknotes.

By the way “Shima sen” (島錢) means “Island coins” which is a name to Japanese (almost ironically) use to refer to Nusantaran cash coins, the irony comes from the fact that Japan 🗾 is a collection of islands itself. 🤣

Don

Sent 📩 from my Microsoft Lumia 950 XL with Microsoft Windows 10 Mobile 📱."

RE: RE: I finally wrote some articles about Indonesian cash coins and amulets (23 D. 03 M. 2019 A.)

[edit]

"Dear Scott Semans,

Coincidentally Dr. R. Allan Barker just replied to an enquiry into privately produced Vietnamese cash coins to which he said “my volume II (which was never written) was intended to cover the unofficial coins. I had even collected a significant number of pieces. Over time however, it became clear that so little was known about these coins that it was not possible to treat them in any way similar to volume I. I then considered a finders guide but decided against it. “ which also means that the “List of privately produced Vietnamese cash coins by inscription” Wikipedia article as well as no Part 2 (two) of the “Cash coins of Việt Nam” book by Dr. R. Allan Barker.

He further stated that “There are 1000s of these coins and even a single example like An Phap has generated great controversy. Considering the lack of available information, the Japanese probably had the best approach and simply try to sort the coins based on their perceived calligraphic style, as well as flan styles believing that different mints would use different manufacturing processes.” Which is a good manner to organise them and is also how Dr. Luke Shepherd Roberts did it on his website and how I used it when I imported all of his images to Wikimedia Commons, but unless you truly understand Chinese calligraphy this might be detrimental for Western collectors. Dr. R. Allan Barker further stated “You might want to take a look at Miura Gosen's three volume set of rubbings, volume II covers the unofficial coins. The Japanese are quite expert at calligraphy. There are some later and larger Japanses references also based on calligraphic style but they are considerably less rigorous (as in sloppy).” So I’ll be searching for mostly Japanese references, but it might be best to take cue from Dr. R. Allan Barker and give up on the subject completely, well until someone will actually write a standard catalogue for them. I could write the “List of Chinese cash coins by inscription” article purely by building on David Hartill's, Gary Ashkenazy's ( גארי אשכנזי), John Ferguson's, and Vladimir Belyaev’s work, Miura Gosen is simply not advanced enough for this, so I’ll cede this last chapter to Zeno.ru.

Regarding Thuan Luc he wrote: “On the other hand, Thuan Luc has as written 3 books of various depth on the subject. He took the opposite approach based mostly on scientific research, comparing which coins are found in which coin balls, were they were dug up, as well as chemical analysis on selected items. He added what historical information he could find but resources are scarce. In spite of being probably the top expert on the subject, his work still can't identify most of the coins. Here I use 'most' to mean number of different pieces not by the ton. “ which is interesting, however my attempts to contact Thuan Luc have been in vain.

Now giving up on privately produced Vietnamese cash coins seems to be the wise thing to do, I’ll let the experts over at Zeno.ru do it. I’m already halfway done with the Palembang pitis (cash coins) Wikipedia article.

Now if you want you could send your images of modern Balinese cash coins to the Wikimedia Commons OTRS, simply e-mail it too to “permissions-commons@wikimedia.org” who will have to verify it. Only then can I upload them to Wikimedia Commons for usage on Wikipedia.

Yours faithfully,
Trung Quoc Don

Sent 📩 from my Microsoft Lumia 950 XL with Microsoft Windows 10 Mobile 📱.

Sent 📩 from my Microsoft Lumia 950 XL with Microsoft Windows 10 Mobile 📱.

Now regarding what you wrote at “I think I understand better the limitations on what you can do with the time and resources available - and the need to document things on Wikipedia. “ yeah, but I’ve used up so much of the resources that Wikipedia and Wikimedia as a whole is now basically “the best website on cash coins, Chinese charms, Chinese amulets, Chinese talismans, Chinese currency tokens, and Chinese Bamboo 🎍 tallies behind Vladimir Belyaev’s Zeno Oriental Coins Database (Zeno.ru)” . So when it concerns EVERYTHING EXCEPT FOR BANKNOTES then Wikimedia is the #1 (number one) website, I’m still working on Chinese banknotes, though.

Now regarding what you wrote at “Indeed, you have made a good start on the Shima sen. The reason I recommend the Griffith article is for its general background on the whole series of Shima Sen (trade cash). It's no irony that Shima sen means islands, the Japanese call their own island cash Bita Sen, a subcategory of the Shima Sen, with Vietnam being I suppose an honorary island.” I was very much aware of how trade cash coins (Dutch: “Handelskèpèngs”) work and even Ryukyuan cash coins have made it to Java and Sumatra.

Now regarding what you wrote at “ In 2002 a three-volume Japanese work on Shima sen came out, nearly tripling the listings in the previous 1987 work that Western researchers use - the crowd at Zeno is still working through it and its categories will likely be the structure for this series in Zeno. “ yeah, I was aware of this, but the listings are based on Chinese calligraphy, this is not the best way to organise them.

Now regarding what you wrote at ”The Japanese classify these things into many groups based on the calligraphy and fabric of the coins, and speculate on where they were made. The new work finally makes a nod toward the more degenerate Indonesian copies, but much of he revelations from dredging came later, and the Japanese collectors are biased toward full-size, better-looking coins than these, so the cutting edge for the Indonesian series is still those zeno listings. “ yeah, this is my issue with most Japanese literature, they’re very much obsessed with what’s actually written on the cash coins (actually, this is exactly how I am as a collector but not as a writer). It’s very interesting how they’re categorised by the ajalabese but the Ajablese have Japanese cash coins first. Thankfully unlike the rest of the world the Japanese see cash coins as an actually currency and not just as “Chinese lucky coins” which really annoys me to no end, though for you this is highly profitable. Of course, after having written SO MUCH about Chinese charms, Chinese amulets, and Chinese talismans I’ve grown to appreciate some part of them, but to me it kind of “perverts” Chinese cash coins, Chinese people themselves “pervert” their culture by seeing them as “magical FeNgShUi (Feng Shui) coins”, as long as there’s no modern currency in which cash coins are used then people’s first and only experience with Chinese cash coins with be as “Chinese lucky coins”.

Now regarding what you wrote at “The background on those Bali cash you dug up is really interesting to me because I have perhaps the best collection of "modern" Indonesian cash. A local friend imported container-loads of Chinese cash from Indonesia from about 2000-2015 to sell to manufacturing jewelers. He had to go through them one by one to cull out the cracked, etc. that they didn't want, so he accumulated hundreds of these crude moderns, which I got for nearly nothing. He also alerted me to interesting strings (such as all Song, or all large-size early Qing reigns). Still, it was clear there were Japanese dealers on the ground there checking all these coins before they were strung up for sale to my friend, so we never found anything really scarce. “ Now that’s quite interesting how much local Asian dealers don't want them.

Now regarding what you wrote at “Also, re. your list of privately produced VIETNAMESE coins, the sources you find - including Hartill's newest book - will be classifying as Vietnamese all sorts of things that may have been made in Indonesia, China, or elsewhere and simply turned up in Vietnam. Hartill didn't have access to the 2002 work, just the 1987.” I actually wasn't aware that David Hartill had written a work on privately produced Vietnamese cash coins, however your points make it quite clear that it’s not the best work to quote, unfortunately most Western works have largely ignored privately produced Vietnamese cash coins.

Now regarding what you wrote at “Anyway, definitely a good start here and maybe someday one of those experts at zeno will go in and tune it up. I don't envy you the Chinese banknote project. I have the Shanghai Encyclopedia volumes on them, but I doubt they even try to cover regional series - 5000 seems to me only a fraction of what is out there.” I’m beginning to see that Chinese Republican era banknotes are “the Notgeld of the east”, there’s so much to cover and I’ve spent so much time on cash coins, Chinese charms, Chinese amulets, Chinese talismans, Chinese currency tokens, and Chinese Bamboo 🎍 tallies that Chinese banknotes have become “an afterthought” that will take a lot of work. Yeah, this will be a lot of hard work.

Sent 📩 from my Microsoft Lumia 950 XL with Microsoft Windows 10 Mobile 📱.

By the way this is the state of the Wikipedia “Palembang pitis” so far:

“Official issues had to be approved by the sultan of Palembang, Most pitis had an inscription like al Sultan fi balad Palembang sanat [date] (the sultan of Palembang year [date]). However in many cases the production was outsourced to the local Chinese population, who did not use Arabic script and also used Chinese production technology to manufacture pitis coins. Generally speaking most Palembang pitis were made from tin alloyed with lead (except for a single bronze issue), the pitis coins of Palembang could be divided into two categories based on the fact if they were holed or not, the holed ones were known as pitis buntu and the coins without a hole were known as pitis teboh. The pitis butu were strung together like Chinese cash coins which had already been circulating in the archipelago while the non-holed coins were packaged in leaves to form a box known as a kupat. The value of the pitis was based on both the Spanish dollar and the VOC duiten. The pitis buntu were strung together in strings of 500 coins on rotan and a string was referred to as a chubchub, while the pitis teboh were packaged per 250 coins in a kupat. During the colonial era a kupat was worth 20 duiten or 1⁄16 Spanish dollar while a chuchub was worth 40 duiten or 1⁄8 Spanish dollar.<ref name=>De Munten van Nederlandsch Indië by Netscher and Van der Chijs</ref>

The value of the units of the pitis was also dependent on the actual size of the coins, with the standard size of the pitis buntu being around fifteen millimeters. However as most pitis coins were either in a box of leaves or strung together very tightly most traders couldn't see the coins and their value was very much dependent on an act of trust. There weren't any alternatives on the Palembang market until the Dutch introduced their duiten. Under the reign of Mahmud Badar ud din, the sultan tried to force their circulation on the market with severe penalties for refusing to accept the pitis, it is likely that both he and the Chinese must have profited handsomely from them.NEDERLANDSCH INDIË”

What do you think 🤔 of it, by the way?any commentzzz? I actually have been doing some research on it but this means that I have to spend less time on Manchu Qing Dynasty banknotes, but that’s worth it as I wish 🌠 to finish 🏁 ALL cash coin topics before going fully into banknotes.

I'll keep you up to date 📅. "

RE: RE: RE: I finally wrote some articles about Indonesian cash coins and amulets (23 D. 03 M. 2019 A.)

[edit]

"Dear Scott Semans,

Actually I don't exclusively do cash types, Pitis Buntu are the holed ones while the Pitis Teboh are unholed. This is an excerpt of the unpublished English-language Wikipedia article “the pitis coins of Palembang could be divided into two categories based on the fact if they were holed or not, the holed ones were known as pitis buntu and the coins without a hole were known as pitis teboh. The pitis butu were strung together like Chinese cash coins which had already been circulating in the archipelago while the non-holed coins were packaged in leaves to form a box known as a kupat. The value of the pitis was based on both the Spanish dollar and the VOC duiten. The pitis buntu were strung together in strings of 500 coins on rotan and a string was referred to as a chubchub, while the pitis teboh were packaged per 250 coins in a kupat. During the colonial era a kupat was worth 20 duiten or 1⁄16 Spanish dollar while a chuchub was worth 40 duiten or 1⁄8 Spanish dollar.” Now I use Robinson as a source, but I read somewhere that the unholed Palembang coins (Pitis Teboh) were probably cast since before the British occupation but I’ll have to dig through my references to see where I read that, I believe that the use the Islamic dating system was used to confirm this (“After Hijra”).

“For Palembang, do you have the ONS Journal articles of 2012 and 2013 by Mitchiner & Yih? “ No, but I’ll look for it later, I’m still working on the skeleton of the article.

Yours faithfully,
Trung Quoc Don

Sent 📩 from my Microsoft Lumia 950 XL with Microsoft Windows 10 Mobile 📱."

RE: RE: RE: RE: I finally wrote some articles about Indonesian cash coins and amulets (23 D. 03 M. 2019 A.)

[edit]

"Dear Scott Semans,

First of all, regarding permission for items for Wikimedia Commons probably send something along the lines of, “I, Scott Semand hereby confirm that I release the attached files under the International Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License 3.0.”

Second of all, currently the English-language Wikipedia covers the Brunei Pitis, Kelantan Keping, and Trengganu Keping as local Nusantaran derivatives of Chinese cash coins. As Dr. R. Allan Barker himself is an Orang Nusantara he would probably come into contact with such coins fairly often so I could enquire him about them later.

And third of all, limiting myself to only cash-type coins would only tell half the story, I’ve written a lot about the Spanish Dollar and later the Mexican Peso in Chinese and Vietnamese monetary history as these were the coinages the Dynastic cash coins were valued against. I can’t afford to actually start collecting chopmarked Spanish Dollars and Mexican Pesos, but I do enjoy writing about them as well. But as non-cash coins are already extensively covered on the English-language Wikipedia I tend to focus more on cash coins but have been able to write “a complete story” about them, well excluding privately produced Vietnamese cash coins and Nusantaran cash coins.

The Javanese Rupee (₹) is actually a part of the Dutch coin almanac, but no other (indigenous) coinages from the area which is a shame. It’s a shame that most Western collectors aren’t that interested in the indigenous coinages because if the demand would rise the research and categorisation of them would rise too. I kind of also hope that my coverage of Oriental coinages on the English-language Wikipedia will raise more awareness on them for “international readers” and make more people interested in them. But from what my conversations with White Western collectors at coin-collector conferences have told me it’s that most of them think that cash coins are “Chinese lucky coins”, even most of the sellers I meet at them know more about their place in Feng Shui and/or Hinduism than how they were used (even simple things like stringing) or from what dynasty they are from. I actually bought a couple of Qian Long Tong Bao cash coins in a second-hand shop in Groningen which had the texts “Kèpèng” (Dutch for “Cash coin”) and “Qianlong Qing periode, 19e eeuw” (Qianlong Qing period, 19th century) on them indicating that the seller knew what they were and when they were made, and then above the barcode “Chinese geluksmunt” (Chinese lucky coin) and oddly enough the seller told me that “only Asians and Hippies” buy them while he also sold Dutch coins which were bought by a more wider demographic. I just hope that if the right context and all information also on Chinese charms, amulets, and talismans is also listed to differentiate between them and cash coins and where there’s overlap.

The information is there, so hopefully “the next generation” of collectors will respect them.

Yours faithfully,
Trung Quoc Don

Sent 📩 from my Microsoft Lumia 950 XL with Microsoft Windows 10 Mobile 📱."

RE: RE: RE: RE: I finally wrote some articles about Indonesian cash coins and amulets (24 D. 03 M. 2019 A.)

[edit]

"Dear Scott Semans,

Pardon, cataloguing everything but Nusantaran cash coins for the very simple reason that I can’t read Arabic script and because Arabic is written from right-to-left I have a lot of trouble adding it to templates, just like with Hebrew. Cash coins written in non-Chinese, non-Manchu and non-Latin scripts have usually been a challenge to add, I was lucky that Andrew West was so helpful with Tangut cash coins but when I tried adding the Arabic cash coins from Sayyid Ghazi Rashidin Khan (سيد غازي راشدين خان) I spent more time with the inscription than with the actual research into the cash coins.

I am really not a fan of Arabic script and while I can appreciate the beauty of non-Chinese scripts on cash coins I really can’t catalogue Nusantaran cash coins purely because of all the Arabic script (Jawi).

Yours faithfully,
Trung Quoc Don

Sent 📩 from my Microsoft Lumia 950 XL with Microsoft Windows 10 Mobile 📱."

RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I finally wrote some articles about Indonesian cash coins and amulets (27 D. 03 M. 2019 A.)

[edit]

"Dear Scott Semans,

In reply to what you (the honourable cash coin master, Scott Semans) wrote at the following well constructed sentence following marked by quotation “I was able to show Manchu script on my web page simply by copying the header information from the Wikipedia article and adding some simple command also cribbed from that page, to each entry. I was very surprised that it worked!” I told you that it would work, Manchu is in Unicode so it should work, contrary to popular belief emoji's are also in Unicode and only an idiot would describe them as “non-Unicode” characters, this is because people simply don't know how Unicode works and just think that “strange characters” should be rendered as an image, maybe sometimes for scripts like Tangut but Manchu is too common for it.

In reply to what you (the honourable cash coin master, Scott Semans) wrote at the following well constructed sentence following marked by quotation “Maybe Arabic is constructed on the web some different way. The problem I suppose would be creating the script in the first place, otw running around looking for it somewhere on a website to copy.” I am literally doing the EXACT SAME THING in fact I only have a Traditional-Chinese (BoPoMoFo) Taiwanese keyboard 🎹 and only rarely have to insert the characters myself, in fact for transliterating between Chinese scripts I can simply use the Microsoft Bing Translator for Traditional-Chinese <-> Simplified-Chinese.

In reply to what you (the honourable cash coin master, Scott Semans) wrote at the following well constructed sentence following marked by quotation “I am always copying Chinese characters from websites and emails, finding the html from a website, and putting them in my own database so I can use them when I find that character on a coin.”

In reply to what you (the honourable cash coin master, Scott Semans) wrote at the following well constructed sentence following marked by quotation “Anyway, I am not critical of your decision to not catalogue, but that would be the first real catalog of the series in either print or the web (as far as I know) because those Mitchiner ONS articles are so scattered and incomplete, and zeno so inscrutible.” I am literally doing the EXACT SAME THING in fact I only have a Traditional-Chinese (BoPoMoFo) Taiwanese keyboard 🎹 and only rarely have to insert the characters myself, in fact for transliterating between Chinese scripts I can simply use the Microsoft Bing Translator for Traditional-Chinese <-> Simplified-Chinese.

In reply to what you (the honourable cash coin master, Scott Semans) wrote at the following well constructed sentence following marked by quotation “Since the Arabic script on them is so corrupt in the first place, it would add little value to include the formal rendering in a catalog - what's useful is the transliteration, which is often provided in zeno.” I could understand where you’re coming from but I would still prefer to catalogue Arabic script inscriptions.

In reply to what you (the honourable cash coin master, Scott Semans) wrote at the following well constructed sentence following marked by quotation “One issue for any catalog of this series is how to treat the degeneration process, since each type seemed to start out with a "good" (relatively) legend, then get copied to garbage, plus the thin and small versions which might be private copies. BG on Zeno, for some types, actually lines up two examples side by side and explains which arabic letter is missing or written some different way, but this would be an endless task for many types. More reliance would have to be on the photos, such as a fine style and a mid or late style.” Yeah, this is exactly the same for ANY unofficial-style of (Chinese) cash coins, just look at the Bitasen from Japan or the privately produced Vietnamese cash coins, as Nusantara is so far from China Proper this would probably affect them a lot more than it would Japan 🗾 and/or Vietnam.

In reply to what you (the honourable cash coin master, Scott Semans) wrote at the following well constructed sentence following marked by quotation “I'm actually trying to talk myself into doing something like this, but it's premature - so much new is turning up all the time, and our understanding of these series is just beginning.” Yeah, that’s why I wrote “a beginning” so others can build on it, it’s better to have “something” than “nothing”, amirite? 😉

Yours faithfully,
Trung Quoc Don

Sent 📩 from my Microsoft Lumia 950 XL with Microsoft Windows 10 Mobile 📱.

Sent 📩 from my Microsoft Lumia 950 XL with Microsoft Windows 10 Mobile 📱."

RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I finally wrote some articles about Indonesian cash coins and amulets (27 D. 03 M. 2019 A.)

[edit]

"Dear Scott Semans,

Manchu script is quite easy to copy and paste, most of the Manchu script I use on Wikimedia websites I copy from Ulrich Theobald’s China Knowledge encyclopedia, see this page:

http://www.chinaknowledge.de/History/Terms/money-qing-pul.html

Gary Ashkenazy's ( גארי אשכנזי) Primaltrek / Primal Trek usually only contains Simplified-Chinese characters so I had to use two (2) different online sources for Qing Dynasty mints and then cross-examined it with Hartill. Arabic script works very differently, as it’s written from right-to-left (like Chinese was historically when used horizontally) the webpage completely “changes direction”, I can’t properly add spaces and it randomly appears at different parts of the webpage when I try to write it.

Could you link to those Mitchiner ONS articles? I couldn’t find them.

Well, step one of cataloguing is having the photographs, I’ve been reading through a couple of 19th (nineteenth) century ancient Greek coin catalogues and the lack of images make them almost unusable, they’re good for identifying your coins, but you can’t compare them with other specimens, using pictures ends you up in a completely different ballpark. This is why I find it so important to get scans and why the “List of Chinese cash coins by inscription” article works so well.

Yours faithfully,
Trung Quoc Don

Sent 📩 from my Microsoft Lumia 950 XL with Microsoft Windows 10 Mobile 📱."

RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I finally wrote some articles about Indonesian cash coins and amulets (27 D. 03 M. 2019 A.)

[edit]

"Dear Scott Semans,

The following link 🔗 just crashed my e-mail 📧 client:

https://www.ecosia.org/search?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.elsevierweekblad.nl%2Fopinie%2Fopinie%2F2019%2F03%2Fcliteur-te-controversieel-universiteit-groningen-doe-normaal-680138%2F%3F%26utm_source%3Delsevierweekblad%26utm_medium%3Dnieuwsbrief%26utm_campaign%3DEWD%2520-%25202019%2520maart%26utm_term%3D5209%26utm_content%3DEW%2520Nieuwsbrief%2520Afbeelding%2520boven%252050%25&addon=opensearch

I will try to re-write my “lost e-mail 📧” as soon as possible, but thank you very much for those amazing articles from the NOS.

Yours faithfully,
Trung Quoc Don

Sent 📩 from my Microsoft Lumia 950 XL with Microsoft Windows 10 Mobile 📱."

RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I finally wrote some articles about Indonesian cash coins and amulets (27 D. 03 M. 2019 A.)

[edit]

"Dear Scott Semans,

First of all, my family name is Trung (pronounced “Chüühng”), it’s Chinese but we migrated to the south during the Song Dynasty so my birth certificate says I’m a “Kinh” (“Metropolitan”, “City folk” or “Vietnamese”) my first name is Don, I also have an Australian passport and in Australia I usually go by “Donny” and people mistakenly call me “Donald” because some people thought that “Don” is an abbreviation (it’s not, but I did choose it for my Aussie passport). I have no relation with the current American president and I’ve heard jokes about me being “his Asian twin” since the 1990’s, they weren’t funny then and aren't funny now. Generally I rarely look “across the pond” as I’m in the Netherlands now, in fact I live 35 minutes away from Bert Lijnema.

Second of all, thank you very much for the scans of those articles, I actually won't be able to use those images so the information suffices, I am currently working on “my last planned Wikipedia article” which is about Manchu Qing Dynasty era banknotes which I deliberately postponed so long (basically “to the last”) for the simple reason that sources are abundant meaning that I have a lot to incorporate, I’m currently just done with one page from Ulrich Theobald’s ChinaKnowledge.de encyclopedia and have a lot more to go. I will probably work on the Palembang Pitis (cash(-like)) coins at the same time and expect to finish them earlier. I basically did all Chinese paper money Wikipedia articles before 1644 and will bridge it now to 1912. Chinese paper money is extremely complicated and the same monetary units get thrown around but different neighbourds in the same village have their own definitions, thankfully the French Revolution straightened Western systems out and gave the world decimalisation, this failed in China multiple times and both the Qing and Republic must’ve tried it a couple of dozen times before it worked (mostly because inflation rendered all smaller units unusable). I hope to be done by April but due to personal circumstances probably won't.

Yours faithfully,
Trung Quoc Don

Sent 📩 from my Microsoft Lumia 950 XL with Microsoft Windows 10 Mobile 📱."

RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I finally wrote some articles about Indonesian cash coins and amulets (27 D. 03 M. 2019 A.)

[edit]

"Dear Scott Semans,

No, thank you.

I have too much work on my hands (even though I only have 1 (one) more Wikipedia article left to write, but it’s quite intricate) as is and I know you have a business to run. I’ll download the articles you scanned momentarily.

But as not much information on Indonesian cash coins could be found online I’ll probably ask you in a couple of months. My wife is about to deliver a baby so I won't have that much time online a few days.

I am still very grateful for the scans, but honestly I want to “finish Wikipedia” before all my time is consumed by my upcoming kid, so I want to create the Qing Dynasty banknotes article.

Yours faithfully,
Trung Quoc Don

Sent 📩 from my Microsoft Lumia 950 XL with Microsoft Windows 10 Mobile 📱."

Palembang Pitis (24 D. 03 M. 2019 A.)

[edit]

"Dear Scott Semans,

This is how the “article” looks:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palembang_pitis

I overestimated the amount of information I would find and ended up writing essentially “a blogpost”. Apparently there are a lot of Nusantaran coinages on Zeno.ru and very little of it is covered by the English-language Wikipedia, too bad that the experts over there won’t join me in writing about those topics.

My experience with a lot of coin-collectors is that usually they’ll first look for information through Wikipedia, then a search engine like Google, Microsoft Bing, Ecosia, Etc. And then ask in their favourite online forums, many people simply don’t know Zeno.ru but I could best link to there in the hope that collectors will find more resources.

Yours faithfully,
Trung Quoc Don

Sent 📩 from my Microsoft Lumia 950 XL with Microsoft Windows 10 Mobile 📱."

Version of the article referenced for future 🔮 reference: "Palembang pitis" (Mobile 📱). --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 16:07, 24 March 2019 (UTC)

RE: Palembang Pitis (26 D. 03 M. 2019 A.)

[edit]

"Dear Scott Semans,

In reply to “Well, I think some of those zeno experts are spending long hours on that site, just as you do with Wikipedia. It's a changing world, and when more of us old-timers realize that the new collectors are on Facebook and Wikipedia and other new entrepots found with search engines, they will move over and add depth to articles like this on Palembang. You've again made a good start. Scott{.}” yeah I think that since the National Science Foundation Network (NSFNET) has existed since 1985 and then became the internet in 1995 it's growth may have been explosive going into every aspect of our lives but the people themselves don't necessarily grow with it.

Partially this is because of copyright laws prohibit the mass migration of “old media” online, you won’t believe how often I have to look in provincial libraries and archives or even museums to find books. We're actually still in “the transitional phase”, the first phase was “mainstream acceptance” (1995-2000), then becoming more accessible (2000-2010) and then the global smartphone and cloud computing era. People are doing more and more with the internet regardless of generation, I meet both children and the elderly interested in cash coins. David Hartill told me that he drafts his books entirely digitally and that more and more of his research is done through coin forums as he says that the number of new Chinese charms he discover online is “endless”.

The world is still transitioning into “an online world” as paper newspapers, cable and satellite television, TiVo DVR, telephony, the radio, books, Etc. Are slowly but surely going online. I enjoy listening to obscure Chinese and Japanese music from the 1920’s and 1930’s which I would've never been able to find offline. While all new information is immediately published online a lot of older information has yet to be digitised but archives around the world are doing so.

I see myself as a part of that movement with my work, you too have brought A LOT of information online, and so does over half of the human species globally. Two decades from now “offline people” will be a thing of the past. I see my work as “bringing all information on Chinese cash coins, Chinese charms, Chinese amulets, Chinese talismans, Chinese tokens, Chinese bamboo tallies, and related subjects in one place”, this is something which Dr. Helen Wang also states is her motto at “Chinese Money Matters”.

My work isn't exactly “completing the information” it's basically “laying the infrastructure” so decades of future contributors could build on it. The same could be said about the Zeno Oriental Coins Database, it’s a work in progress not meant to be build in a day. The largest difference is that while Wikimedia has a huge financial backing of donors I’m afraid that Charm.ru and Zeno.ru might one day be taken down because they didn't pay in time as I’ve seen happen with dozens of websites on Chinese cash coins which aren’t archived. Lars Bo’s website is probably the largest one now and it contains so many photographs, too bad that the entire internet isn't archived daily for future generations.

Yours faithfully,
Trung Quoc Don

Sent 📩 from my Microsoft Lumia 950 XL with Microsoft Windows 10 Mobile 📱."

RE: Fwd: [Ticket#2019032310005429] Permission to use photos grantedto Wikimedia (11 D. 05 M. 2019 A.)

[edit]

"Dear Scott Semans,

First of all I am sending this from my Google Account because my Microsoft Outlook inbox is full so I can’t send anymore e-mails from that account, I will use it as an archive.

Second of all, you should probably send the .zip files Qing1 and Qing2.

Also, I also received the original e-mail.

Yours faithfully,
Trung Quoc Don

Sent 📩 from my Microsoft Lumia 950 XL with Microsoft Windows 10 Mobile 📱."

RE: RE: Fwd: [Ticket#2019032310005429] Permission to use photos grantedto Wikimedia (11 D. 05 M. 2019 A.)

[edit]

"Dear Scott Semans,

I actually am not planning on paying for e-mail services, I click on advertisements quite regularly so I give Microsoft enough money.

You should probably write that the Creative Commons permission applies to those folders and that I will upload those (.zip) folders and that the OTRS agent can confirm that the files are identical to the ones I uploaded.

Yours faithfully,
Trung Quoc Don

Sent 📩 from my Microsoft Lumia 950 XL with Microsoft Windows 10 Mobile 📱."

RE: RE: RE: Fwd: [Ticket#2019032310005429] Permission to use photos grantedto Wikimedia (11 D. 05 M. 2019 A.)

[edit]

"Dear Scott Semans,

First of all, let me apologise for my late reaction as I have been very busy as of late and did not find the opportunity to respond in a more timely manner. I would personally respond with this:

“Dear Mr. [OTRS Agent] (forgot his name already, it was German),

I, Scott Semans confirm that the files attached in these .zip folders of Late Jin Dynasty and Qing Dynasty origin are released under are covered under a Creative Commons 3.0 Attribution license. Anyone may use them as they wish, but have to (legally) attribute me (Scott Semans) as the author and name my website (www.CoinCoin.com).

Trung Quoc Don will upload these files to Wikimedia Commons and then you (or another OTRS agent) can examine and compare the here attached files with the files uploaded to Wikimedia Commons which are also listed into a special maintenance category to verify that these are the same files. I hope that I have sufficiently stated the nature of their copyright © and how they will be published.

Yours sincerely, Scott Semans

Sent 📩 from my Microsoft Lumia 950 XL with Microsoft Windows 10 Mobile 📱.“ (probably not this line as it’s highly unlikely that you (or anyone in general) owns this phablet, this is just a part of the draft.).

This letter would probably suffice, as long as you attach the “Qing1” and “Qing2” folders, also if they’re too big to send together reply more than once to the same ticket, the computer will organise them together.

Yours faithfully,
Trung Quoc Don

Sent 📩 from my Microsoft Lumia 950 XL with Microsoft Windows 10 Mobile 📱.


Sent 📩 from my Microsoft Lumia 950 XL with Microsoft Windows 10 Mobile 📱."

Retrieved from "https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Donald_Trung/Letters_to_Scott_Semans/Continued_correspondence&oldid=351048491"