English subtitles for clip: File:11-2-09- White House Press Briefing.webm
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1 00:00:09,667 --> 00:00:11,237 Mr. Gibbs: Take us away, Ben. 2 00:00:11,233 --> 00:00:12,433 The Press: Thanks, Robert. 3 00:00:12,433 --> 00:00:13,833 A few questions about Afghanistan. 4 00:00:13,834 --> 00:00:15,964 Can you tell us, first generally speaking, 5 00:00:15,967 --> 00:00:19,097 what's the President's reaction to the end of this election? 6 00:00:19,100 --> 00:00:22,170 And is he in any way relieved that this sort 7 00:00:22,166 --> 00:00:24,436 of messy process is over? 8 00:00:24,433 --> 00:00:26,433 Mr. Gibbs: Well, look, I think by all accounts, 9 00:00:26,433 --> 00:00:29,303 this has been a difficult process. 10 00:00:29,300 --> 00:00:32,870 This is the first election run by the Afghans. 11 00:00:32,867 --> 00:00:37,297 But I think the President, the embassy there, 12 00:00:37,300 --> 00:00:44,300 and everyone can take heart in the notion that the laws of 13 00:00:44,300 --> 00:00:51,600 Afghanistan and the institutions of Afghanistan prevailed in both instances. 14 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:56,330 The President will telephone -- President Obama will telephone 15 00:00:56,333 --> 00:00:59,963 President Karzai within the next half hour, 16 00:00:59,967 --> 00:01:04,837 and we'll have a readout from that phone call for you all 17 00:01:04,834 --> 00:01:06,064 right after that. 18 00:01:06,066 --> 00:01:08,536 The Press: Speaking of that, you've talked a lot about the 19 00:01:08,533 --> 00:01:11,233 need for a credible, legitimate partner. 20 00:01:11,233 --> 00:01:14,303 Does the President consider President Karzai to be a 21 00:01:14,300 --> 00:01:16,870 legitimate, credible partner? 22 00:01:16,867 --> 00:01:19,737 Mr. Gibbs: President Karzai has been declared the winner of the 23 00:01:19,734 --> 00:01:24,904 Afghan election and will head the next government of Afghanistan. 24 00:01:24,900 --> 00:01:28,970 So obviously he's the legitimate leader of the country. 25 00:01:28,967 --> 00:01:35,237 Obviously what we'll begin -- now that we know the government 26 00:01:35,233 --> 00:01:40,863 that will lead Afghanistan for the next five years, 27 00:01:40,867 --> 00:01:46,297 continue conversations about governance, civil society, 28 00:01:46,300 --> 00:01:51,700 and corruption, going forward to ensure that we have a credible 29 00:01:51,700 --> 00:01:56,430 partner in our efforts to help secure the country. 30 00:01:56,433 --> 00:01:58,703 The Press: How does this resolution, if at all, 31 00:01:58,700 --> 00:02:03,900 affect the President's timetable on war strategy? 32 00:02:03,900 --> 00:02:07,030 Mr. Gibbs: Look, again, I think there's -- we obviously now know 33 00:02:07,033 --> 00:02:08,303 who the government is going to be, 34 00:02:08,300 --> 00:02:11,330 so I think some of the conversations that I just 35 00:02:11,333 --> 00:02:16,603 alluded to can take place with who we know is going to lead the country. 36 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:21,630 I think the decision is still -- will be made in the coming weeks. 37 00:02:21,633 --> 00:02:23,063 Yes, ma'am. 38 00:02:23,066 --> 00:02:27,336 The Press: The President said today that he expect more job losses. 39 00:02:27,333 --> 00:02:31,403 And his comments today suggested more than ever that he might 40 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:36,630 take action -- more actions to stem the tide, 41 00:02:36,633 --> 00:02:38,563 to improve the jobs picture. 42 00:02:38,567 --> 00:02:40,637 What kind of thing might he want to do? 43 00:02:40,633 --> 00:02:44,463 And also, when do you think that the jobs picture might show some 44 00:02:44,467 --> 00:02:45,597 -- more improvement? 45 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:50,330 Mr. Gibbs: Well, I would point you to the meeting that was just 46 00:02:50,333 --> 00:02:53,203 held, which I think you all watched, 47 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:59,030 for ideas that the President's Economic Recovery Advisory Board 48 00:02:59,033 --> 00:03:04,103 -- ideas that they have and that they shared with the President today. 49 00:03:04,100 --> 00:03:06,130 I know that the President and the economic team will 50 00:03:06,133 --> 00:03:08,833 evaluate those proposals. 51 00:03:08,834 --> 00:03:16,664 In terms of help, we've said throughout this process that the 52 00:03:16,667 --> 00:03:20,997 team is continually looking at ideas that will create an 53 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:24,700 environment for sustained economic growth. 54 00:03:24,700 --> 00:03:26,800 I know that's what the President -- the ideas the President 55 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:32,270 wanted to hear today, and I think that's what he got. 56 00:03:32,266 --> 00:03:38,196 In terms of -- look, I don't know what the jobs picture will 57 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:46,430 be at the end of this week, but I know that the President is 58 00:03:46,433 --> 00:03:53,703 focused on working to create an atmosphere to create more jobs. 59 00:03:53,700 --> 00:03:55,330 I think we took a big step forward. 60 00:03:55,333 --> 00:03:58,963 We can't have job growth until we begin to have economic growth. 61 00:03:58,967 --> 00:04:01,797 And for the first time in more than a year, 62 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:04,170 the economy registered positive economic growth, 63 00:04:04,166 --> 00:04:07,796 according to statistics released last week. 64 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:09,000 Yes, sir. 65 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:11,330 The Press: President Obama, last month in Pittsburgh, 66 00:04:11,333 --> 00:04:15,263 said of the Afghan elections and the aftermath, 67 00:04:15,266 --> 00:04:18,136 "What's most important is that there's a sense of legitimacy in 68 00:04:18,133 --> 00:04:21,803 Afghanistan among the Afghan people for their government." 69 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:24,330 Is there a sense of legitimacy in Afghanistan among the Afghan 70 00:04:24,333 --> 00:04:26,963 people for the Karzai government? 71 00:04:26,967 --> 00:04:29,897 Mr. Gibbs: Well, I have no reason to believe there is not. 72 00:04:29,900 --> 00:04:32,030 The Press: Well, Abdullah Abdullah, as you know, 73 00:04:32,033 --> 00:04:34,363 one of the demands -- or the only demand at the end that he 74 00:04:34,367 --> 00:04:36,997 asked for from Karzai to continue with this runoff was 75 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:40,530 for the head of the IEC to be replaced because there was such 76 00:04:40,533 --> 00:04:44,703 a lack of trust in him after the last election. 77 00:04:44,700 --> 00:04:46,670 Karzai refused. 78 00:04:46,667 --> 00:04:51,067 So obviously Abdullah Abdullah feels that there is a lack of 79 00:04:51,066 --> 00:04:53,166 credibility in the IEC. 80 00:04:53,166 --> 00:04:56,666 Mr. Gibbs: Well, Dr. Abdullah made his own personal and 81 00:04:56,667 --> 00:05:01,637 political decision about this particular runoff. 82 00:05:01,633 --> 00:05:06,833 I think if you look at the election results even after the 83 00:05:06,834 --> 00:05:10,834 investigation of allegations of fraud, which, by the way, 84 00:05:10,834 --> 00:05:15,704 worked, throwing out enough votes to require a second round 85 00:05:15,700 --> 00:05:19,270 and convincing President Karzai to participate in that, 86 00:05:19,266 --> 00:05:23,966 which clearly was not a -- by any means a given -- I think 87 00:05:23,967 --> 00:05:30,467 even in that balloting you saw that Dr. Abdullah trailed by a 88 00:05:30,467 --> 00:05:34,167 fairly large margin President Karzai. 89 00:05:34,166 --> 00:05:37,836 So I don't see -- I don't think there's any reason to believe 90 00:05:37,834 --> 00:05:40,634 that the Afghan people won't think this government is as 91 00:05:40,633 --> 00:05:42,303 legitimate as it is. 92 00:05:42,300 --> 00:05:43,870 The Press: Well, the reason would be that the last election 93 00:05:43,867 --> 00:05:48,467 was considered tainted by fraud and that's the only 94 00:05:48,467 --> 00:05:49,737 election they've had. 95 00:05:49,734 --> 00:05:53,234 Mr. Gibbs: Well, and those results were thrown out. 96 00:05:53,233 --> 00:05:57,103 The fraud was reported, investigated. 97 00:05:57,100 --> 00:06:00,700 The committees that you talk about threw out those votes. 98 00:06:00,700 --> 00:06:04,000 A second round was scheduled and the participant, 99 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:07,470 the second participant in the second round, decided, again, 100 00:06:07,467 --> 00:06:08,797 for personal and political reasons, 101 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:11,000 not to take part in the election. 102 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:14,670 I don't know how you can have an election of two candidates if 103 00:06:14,667 --> 00:06:18,097 the one who finishes second decides not to participate, 104 00:06:18,100 --> 00:06:20,900 even after the laws and institutions of the government 105 00:06:20,900 --> 00:06:23,930 threw out what he declared were fraudulent results 106 00:06:23,934 --> 00:06:25,104 from the first one. 107 00:06:25,100 --> 00:06:26,670 The Press: Personal political reasons? 108 00:06:26,667 --> 00:06:28,697 Mr. Gibbs: I said "personal and political." 109 00:06:28,700 --> 00:06:30,870 The Press: The reasons were he said there would be -- he would 110 00:06:30,867 --> 00:06:32,667 have no faith or trust in this election because the last one 111 00:06:32,667 --> 00:06:35,367 was so riddled with fraud, and the same head of the IEC 112 00:06:35,367 --> 00:06:36,697 was going to be -- 113 00:06:36,700 --> 00:06:38,470 Mr. Gibbs: I don't know how you could presume something was 114 00:06:38,467 --> 00:06:40,067 going to happen before it did. 115 00:06:40,066 --> 00:06:42,036 The Press: So then how do you have a legitimate election if 116 00:06:42,033 --> 00:06:44,733 basically just the only other candidate drops out? 117 00:06:44,734 --> 00:06:46,734 I mean, it's not like they've actually moved forward and 118 00:06:46,734 --> 00:06:48,104 cleaned up the fraud. 119 00:06:48,100 --> 00:06:49,070 How is that legitimate? 120 00:06:49,066 --> 00:06:52,566 Mr. Gibbs: Well, first, let's understand the fraud 121 00:06:52,567 --> 00:06:57,667 was talked about, investigated. 122 00:06:57,667 --> 00:06:59,337 Millions of votes were thrown out, 123 00:06:59,333 --> 00:07:01,163 that it required a second round. 124 00:07:01,166 --> 00:07:04,196 Ed, if the participant, the second participant in the 125 00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:07,570 election decides for his own reasons not to participate in 126 00:07:07,567 --> 00:07:11,567 that election, would you suggest that the American government 127 00:07:11,567 --> 00:07:13,837 require a second participant to -- 128 00:07:13,834 --> 00:07:15,404 The Press: The person who allegedly committed the fraud or 129 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:19,530 had the fraud committed on his behalf, President Karzai, 130 00:07:19,533 --> 00:07:21,603 is now going to stay on as the leader. 131 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:24,670 Mr. Gibbs: But, again, you guys have -- I appreciate, 132 00:07:24,667 --> 00:07:27,137 but you've skipped an entire range of -- remember, 133 00:07:27,133 --> 00:07:31,333 we were talking just probably 10 days ago about whether President 134 00:07:31,333 --> 00:07:35,863 Karzai would even accept the ruling that threw out millions 135 00:07:35,867 --> 00:07:39,267 of ballots that required him to go through a second round. 136 00:07:39,266 --> 00:07:41,196 That was certainly not given. 137 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:44,070 That was something that -- again, 138 00:07:44,066 --> 00:07:47,496 the fraud -- the fraud was analyzed; 139 00:07:47,500 --> 00:07:51,570 a decision was made to throw out millions of ballots to push 140 00:07:51,567 --> 00:07:55,567 somebody under 50 percent, which required a second round. 141 00:07:55,567 --> 00:07:57,797 The Press: But you've repeatedly said in recent days that there 142 00:07:57,800 --> 00:07:59,030 -- you need to have a credible partner. 143 00:07:59,033 --> 00:08:01,003 When Ben asked you that question at the top, 144 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:03,630 is he a credible partner, you said he's a legitimate leader. 145 00:08:03,633 --> 00:08:04,903 You didn't say he's credible. 146 00:08:04,900 --> 00:08:07,270 Mr. Gibbs: Well, because -- listen to the second part of the 147 00:08:07,266 --> 00:08:09,536 question and my answer with Ben. 148 00:08:09,533 --> 00:08:14,403 Nobody said -- nobody has ever made the accusation that 149 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:18,270 credibility was going to be had simply out of one election. 150 00:08:18,266 --> 00:08:20,096 That would have been true, quite frankly, 151 00:08:20,100 --> 00:08:23,830 whomever got elected and whoever participated. 152 00:08:23,834 --> 00:08:26,534 The conversations that now have to be had and continue with the 153 00:08:26,533 --> 00:08:30,333 Afghan government are the steps that they're going to take to 154 00:08:30,333 --> 00:08:34,533 improve their governance, to improve their civil society, 155 00:08:34,533 --> 00:08:36,733 and to address fraud and corruption. 156 00:08:36,734 --> 00:08:38,334 There's no doubt about that. 157 00:08:38,333 --> 00:08:41,363 But that wasn't all going to be had at a ballot box. 158 00:08:41,367 --> 00:08:43,397 The Press: So why did you say a moment ago that the troop 159 00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:45,670 decision is going to come in weeks, 160 00:08:45,667 --> 00:08:47,467 which you've been saying for weeks, 161 00:08:47,467 --> 00:08:50,137 when Rahm Emanuel was on some programs a couple of weekends 162 00:08:50,133 --> 00:08:53,003 ago saying that we've got to wait till this runoff -- when we 163 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:54,830 have the runoff, then we'll know the leader, 164 00:08:54,834 --> 00:08:56,434 we'll know the government we're dealing with you. 165 00:08:56,433 --> 00:08:57,503 As you acknowledged a moment ago, 166 00:08:57,500 --> 00:08:58,570 we now know it's President Karzai. 167 00:08:58,567 --> 00:09:02,597 Mr. Gibbs: This decision was not dependent upon when a 168 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:04,270 leader was determined. 169 00:09:04,266 --> 00:09:07,036 We've never said that. 170 00:09:07,033 --> 00:09:08,233 The Press: Rahm clearly said we had to wait until after the 171 00:09:08,233 --> 00:09:11,003 runoff because you have to figure out who's actually going 172 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:11,830 to be in charge. 173 00:09:11,834 --> 00:09:12,704 We now know. 174 00:09:12,700 --> 00:09:13,900 Mr. Gibbs: There are a number of decisions that have to be made. 175 00:09:13,900 --> 00:09:18,070 One of them -- this was not simply predicated on when or if 176 00:09:18,066 --> 00:09:20,966 this election was held and when it was. 177 00:09:20,967 --> 00:09:22,897 The Press: What else does he need -- what else does the 178 00:09:22,900 --> 00:09:24,630 President need to make the decision then? 179 00:09:24,633 --> 00:09:27,503 Mr. Gibbs: The President is working with his national 180 00:09:27,500 --> 00:09:31,470 security team to evaluate, as I think you saw many people say 181 00:09:31,467 --> 00:09:38,697 yesterday on the news shows, how best to formulate a strategy 182 00:09:38,700 --> 00:09:42,170 that supports the goal of disrupting, 183 00:09:42,166 --> 00:09:45,496 dismantling and ultimately destroying al Qaeda. 184 00:09:45,500 --> 00:09:47,400 That's what the team is working on, 185 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:49,100 and they had a productive meeting with the Joint Chiefs 186 00:09:49,100 --> 00:09:51,270 just at the end of last week. 187 00:09:51,266 --> 00:09:53,796 The Press: Robert, you can talk all you want about the law 188 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:55,770 having prevailed, but in the end, 189 00:09:55,767 --> 00:09:57,967 you're left with somebody who the U.S. 190 00:09:57,967 --> 00:10:01,197 has been dodging for months because he hasn't been a 191 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:06,630 reliable partner, and yet he's now your only -- your only alternative. 192 00:10:06,633 --> 00:10:10,163 And what does this do to the decision-making process here? 193 00:10:10,166 --> 00:10:12,966 It hasn't been made any easier, certainly. 194 00:10:12,967 --> 00:10:16,037 Mr. Gibbs: Well, our problems don't generally get easier 195 00:10:16,033 --> 00:10:17,933 dealing with anything, Bill. 196 00:10:17,934 --> 00:10:21,734 As I said in response to at least two previous questions, 197 00:10:21,734 --> 00:10:27,764 now begin the hard conversations about ensuring credibility and 198 00:10:27,767 --> 00:10:30,397 ensuring -- improving governance, 199 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:33,970 addressing corruption. 200 00:10:33,967 --> 00:10:34,997 The Press: These are conversations you tried to have 201 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:36,230 before the election. 202 00:10:36,233 --> 00:10:41,603 Mr. Gibbs: Well, we are focused on what has to happen in order 203 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:46,000 to have a credible partner so that there is a -- there will be 204 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:49,200 a point in this process where the United States is not going 205 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:50,730 to stay forever. 206 00:10:50,734 --> 00:10:53,634 I've said that a hundred times. 207 00:10:53,633 --> 00:10:58,703 At some point, what is built and what is secured has to be 208 00:10:58,700 --> 00:11:02,630 transferred to somebody else, has to be transferred to a 209 00:11:02,633 --> 00:11:06,203 government in Afghanistan to do for itself. 210 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:09,500 That's what we're focused on now that we know who that government 211 00:11:09,500 --> 00:11:12,570 will be, going forward for the next five years. 212 00:11:12,567 --> 00:11:14,397 The Press: Yes, but now, given what's transpired, 213 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:17,030 how long is it going to take to decide whether you have a 214 00:11:17,033 --> 00:11:21,303 credible partner and whether the United States should commit 215 00:11:21,300 --> 00:11:23,730 further troops and resources? 216 00:11:23,734 --> 00:11:26,634 Mr. Gibbs: That's what -- that's part of the decision-making 217 00:11:26,633 --> 00:11:29,103 process that's ongoing. 218 00:11:29,100 --> 00:11:30,800 The Press: Yes, but it's been going on forever, 219 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:32,530 as your critics have pointed out. 220 00:11:32,533 --> 00:11:34,003 The Press: Can you elaborate on this "personal and political 221 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:36,300 decision" from Dr. Abdullah? 222 00:11:36,300 --> 00:11:37,800 You referred to it two or three times now. 223 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:40,030 He made a personal, political decision. 224 00:11:40,033 --> 00:11:43,303 That's a -- it sounds like -- are you playing Afghan pundit here? 225 00:11:43,300 --> 00:11:46,370 Mr. Gibbs: No. I generally avoid playing American pundit, 226 00:11:46,367 --> 00:11:47,667 let along Afghan pundit. 227 00:11:47,667 --> 00:11:48,997 The Press: What is the political -- what evidence -- 228 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:51,330 Mr. Gibbs: What's the equivalent of Afghan "Meet The Press?" I don't - 229 00:11:51,333 --> 00:11:52,333 (laughter) 230 00:11:52,333 --> 00:11:53,503 The Press: What is the equivalent -- 231 00:11:53,500 --> 00:11:54,430 The Press: You don't want to know. 232 00:11:54,433 --> 00:11:56,503 (laughter) 233 00:11:56,500 --> 00:11:57,970 The Press: It's the longest running show probably in Afghanistan. 234 00:11:57,967 --> 00:12:01,167 (laughter) 235 00:12:01,166 --> 00:12:05,266 Tell me about -- what's the evidence that it was a political decision? 236 00:12:05,266 --> 00:12:09,896 Mr. Gibbs: I'm just saying that he made a decision for probably 237 00:12:09,900 --> 00:12:12,100 a series of reasons -- 238 00:12:12,100 --> 00:12:13,000 The Press: Can you elaborate? 239 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:13,970 You've already said it's political. 240 00:12:13,967 --> 00:12:15,197 Can you elaborate a little bit? 241 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:20,970 Mr. Gibbs: I think you saw some of this over the weekend. 242 00:12:20,967 --> 00:12:25,637 There were decisions that he made to no longer be a 243 00:12:25,633 --> 00:12:27,933 contestant in this race. 244 00:12:27,934 --> 00:12:30,804 The Press: Who in the U.S. government has reached out to Dr. Abdullah over 245 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:32,830 the last few days? 246 00:12:32,834 --> 00:12:35,564 Mr. Gibbs: I don't know if folks at the State Department or 247 00:12:35,567 --> 00:12:38,497 others have -- you should check with them. 248 00:12:38,500 --> 00:12:40,330 The Press: Is the President at all having any -- 249 00:12:40,333 --> 00:12:41,703 Mr. Gibbs: Again, the President will speak -- 250 00:12:41,700 --> 00:12:43,870 The Press: Is there any chance he's going to make a phone -- 251 00:12:43,867 --> 00:12:45,937 Mr. Gibbs: -- is probably on the phone in the next few minutes 252 00:12:45,934 --> 00:12:47,764 with President Karzai. 253 00:12:47,767 --> 00:12:50,897 But, look, I don't think there's any doubt that Dr. Abdullah will 254 00:12:50,900 --> 00:12:57,270 play a role, it's quite clear, going forward in Afghanistan. 255 00:12:57,266 --> 00:13:06,436 And I think that anybody -- we would obviously want to be in 256 00:13:06,433 --> 00:13:09,333 consultation with a number of people that are going to have 257 00:13:09,333 --> 00:13:11,603 roles going forward in Afghanistan. 258 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:13,370 The Press: Are you still going to reach out to tribal leaders 259 00:13:13,367 --> 00:13:15,037 that don't really have a relationship with the central 260 00:13:15,033 --> 00:13:18,703 government in Afghanistan as you do the strategy review? 261 00:13:18,700 --> 00:13:23,000 Mr. Gibbs: Well, look, obviously there's an evaluation that's 262 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:28,570 going on on governance issues, not just in Kabul but throughout 263 00:13:28,567 --> 00:13:30,797 the country, and certainly that will be part of it. 264 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:36,470 The Press: On tomorrow's elections, 265 00:13:36,467 --> 00:13:42,697 what do you tell generic Democratic Congressman X not to 266 00:13:42,700 --> 00:13:45,600 read into the results in New Jersey or Virginia? 267 00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:48,770 Mr. Gibbs: Well, I would -- well, I think, one, 268 00:13:48,767 --> 00:13:51,367 I'd wait for the results to talk to Congressman X, 269 00:13:51,367 --> 00:13:54,797 without -- like I said, I don't want to play pundit in 270 00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:58,500 Afghanistan or certainly don't want to pre-play pundit here. 271 00:13:58,500 --> 00:14:01,500 Obviously, as we talked about -- 272 00:14:01,500 --> 00:14:03,170 The Press: Are you guys going to take a lot of credit if Corzine 273 00:14:03,166 --> 00:14:04,296 wins, but then -- 274 00:14:04,300 --> 00:14:07,530 Mr. Gibbs: No, I would point you to the answer I gave on Friday, 275 00:14:07,533 --> 00:14:11,963 which is I don't think that these elections will portend a 276 00:14:11,967 --> 00:14:18,237 lot for what happens in 2010 any more than the 2001 elections 277 00:14:18,233 --> 00:14:21,963 seemed to denote relative electoral legislative strength 278 00:14:21,967 --> 00:14:25,497 for President Bush in 2002. 279 00:14:25,500 --> 00:14:27,070 It's just -- 280 00:14:27,066 --> 00:14:28,736 The Press: But are you concerned that some Democratic incumbents 281 00:14:28,734 --> 00:14:31,064 in Congress might suddenly be tougher -- 282 00:14:31,066 --> 00:14:34,166 Mr. Gibbs: -- the results based on the pundits on cable TV? 283 00:14:34,166 --> 00:14:38,536 That and corporate governance -- or corruption in governance are 284 00:14:38,533 --> 00:14:40,133 at the top of my list today. 285 00:14:40,133 --> 00:14:44,163 The Press: I thought that al Qaeda was mostly defeated in Afghanistan. 286 00:14:44,166 --> 00:14:45,936 Mr. Gibbs: Well, we want to ensure that -- 287 00:14:45,934 --> 00:14:49,134 The Press: Isn't it now the Taliban that you're going after? 288 00:14:49,133 --> 00:14:52,003 Mr. Gibbs: We want to ensure that a safe haven can't be 289 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:55,600 created in which they could come back and establish a stronghold 290 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:57,570 with which to plan and attack us. 291 00:14:57,567 --> 00:15:01,397 The Press: So you're going to send 40,000 troops more to do that? 292 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:05,700 Mr. Gibbs: That's -- the discussion about what to do in terms of 293 00:15:05,700 --> 00:15:09,700 troop levels is one aspect of a larger strategy on 294 00:15:09,700 --> 00:15:12,930 how to deal with our goal of disrupting, dismantling, 295 00:15:12,934 --> 00:15:14,834 and ultimately destroying al Qaeda. 296 00:15:14,834 --> 00:15:18,504 The Press: How are you going to pull up short the Afghan government? 297 00:15:18,500 --> 00:15:19,500 Mr. Gibbs: I'm sorry, how are we -- 298 00:15:19,500 --> 00:15:21,600 The Press: How are you going to make them do more? 299 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:24,430 Mr. Gibbs: Well, I think that's a conversation that's probably 300 00:15:24,433 --> 00:15:26,263 beginning in the Oval Office right now. 301 00:15:26,266 --> 00:15:28,936 The Press: -- put no conditions on any country. 302 00:15:28,934 --> 00:15:32,964 Pakistan wants how many million and you say, okay, go ahead, 303 00:15:32,967 --> 00:15:34,297 we don't have any conditions. 304 00:15:34,300 --> 00:15:36,800 Mr. Gibbs: No, that's -- Helen, you know better than that, 305 00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:39,570 that that's not true with our assistance. 306 00:15:39,567 --> 00:15:41,167 The Press: Well, what conditions were there on Pakistan? 307 00:15:41,166 --> 00:15:43,596 Mr. Gibbs: Well, we had a big back-and forth about -- just two weeks 308 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:45,400 about whether there were too many conditions on our aid 309 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:47,130 in Pakistan, didn't we? 310 00:15:47,133 --> 00:15:48,403 Yes, ma'am. 311 00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:50,470 The Press: On the Economic Recovery Board meeting, 312 00:15:50,467 --> 00:15:53,737 how seriously do you take these proposals? 313 00:15:53,734 --> 00:15:56,064 Is this part of an ongoing dialogue with the White House, 314 00:15:56,066 --> 00:16:00,196 or are these three individual proposals or presentations, 315 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:03,230 as the President referred to them -- are they the beginning 316 00:16:03,233 --> 00:16:06,803 of a solid basis for creating jobs over the next year or so? 317 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:13,200 Mr. Gibbs: Well, you heard the President reiterate in his comments when 318 00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:20,130 the pool was in there that we have for years had 319 00:16:20,133 --> 00:16:25,833 sort of bubble and bust, and that with what happened a year 320 00:16:25,834 --> 00:16:31,334 ago, a little more than a year ago, we now have to find stable, 321 00:16:31,333 --> 00:16:35,333 fundamental economic footing for stable and fundamental economic 322 00:16:35,333 --> 00:16:40,703 growth; that we need to create jobs in things like clean energy 323 00:16:40,700 --> 00:16:46,700 that we know are growth industries for the future, 324 00:16:46,700 --> 00:16:52,700 rather than having economic growth predicated on free credit 325 00:16:52,700 --> 00:17:01,130 or other aspects of consumer spending; 326 00:17:01,133 --> 00:17:07,933 that we have to have stable ideas for that economic growth. 327 00:17:07,934 --> 00:17:14,864 These were obviously ideas that three believe can begin that 328 00:17:14,867 --> 00:17:19,137 process and the President wanted to listen to their ideas, 329 00:17:19,133 --> 00:17:23,633 and they'll be further examined here by the economic team in 330 00:17:23,633 --> 00:17:25,303 consultation with those individuals. 331 00:17:25,300 --> 00:17:26,870 The Press: But they were quite concrete ones -- an 332 00:17:26,867 --> 00:17:28,667 infrastructure bank -- 333 00:17:28,667 --> 00:17:30,397 Mr. Gibbs: Which is something the President has talked about 334 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:32,200 -- the infrastructure bank as far back -- 335 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:35,100 The Press: Right. So were these vetted and were these proposals created in 336 00:17:35,100 --> 00:17:36,630 concert with the White House? 337 00:17:36,633 --> 00:17:37,733 Were they vetted in advance? 338 00:17:37,734 --> 00:17:39,534 Mr. Gibbs: Well, again, some of the -- again, 339 00:17:39,533 --> 00:17:41,133 the infrastructure bank is something that the President 340 00:17:41,133 --> 00:17:46,833 discussed heading back into the campaign. 341 00:17:46,834 --> 00:17:49,504 Weatherization is something that is beginning to take place as 342 00:17:49,500 --> 00:17:52,170 part of the recovery plan. 343 00:17:52,166 --> 00:17:56,636 The question is, can you create more jobs by expanding that and 344 00:17:56,633 --> 00:18:01,933 also helping to take care of another problem like energy 345 00:18:01,934 --> 00:18:07,464 efficiency, which we all know is a big avenue towards saving -- 346 00:18:07,467 --> 00:18:10,697 toward doing something about greenhouse gases. 347 00:18:10,700 --> 00:18:13,330 The Press: So can we look at these proposals as the basis for 348 00:18:13,333 --> 00:18:16,303 a jobs creation program going forward over the next year? 349 00:18:16,300 --> 00:18:19,170 Mr. Gibbs: You can as -- for what was presented by this 350 00:18:19,166 --> 00:18:20,936 group to the President. 351 00:18:20,934 --> 00:18:24,104 The President will -- was happy to listen and was happy to get 352 00:18:24,100 --> 00:18:31,300 the ideas, and will now further evaluate whether they make the 353 00:18:31,300 --> 00:18:34,600 basis for something that we might propose. 354 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:35,500 Yes, sir. 355 00:18:35,500 --> 00:18:38,570 The Press: What does Karzai have to do to become a credible partner? 356 00:18:38,567 --> 00:18:41,767 Mr. Gibbs: Well, what I've broadly listed here before. 357 00:18:41,767 --> 00:18:46,037 Obviously there's -- we know there are problems related to 358 00:18:46,033 --> 00:18:51,933 corruption that have to be addressed moving forward. 359 00:18:51,934 --> 00:18:59,204 I think that's -- clearly we've got to -- as assistance is given 360 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:02,300 to Afghanistan, we've got to make sure that that assistance 361 00:19:02,300 --> 00:19:06,930 for things like economic development and growth get down 362 00:19:06,934 --> 00:19:08,904 to the people that need it. 363 00:19:08,900 --> 00:19:10,770 I would think that's certainly one good example. 364 00:19:10,767 --> 00:19:13,737 The Press: Is the President laying out guideposts for him or 365 00:19:13,734 --> 00:19:15,034 markers that he has to take to -- 366 00:19:15,033 --> 00:19:17,233 Mr. Gibbs: I don't know that the conversation that's 367 00:19:17,233 --> 00:19:18,903 happening right now will get that specific, 368 00:19:18,900 --> 00:19:22,230 but I can assure you that throughout this process our team 369 00:19:22,233 --> 00:19:26,333 at the embassy, under the guidance of Ambassador 370 00:19:26,333 --> 00:19:33,103 Eikenberry, have been discussing with both candidates the need to 371 00:19:33,100 --> 00:19:37,230 ensure that this happens with whomever is elected to lead this government. 372 00:19:37,233 --> 00:19:38,433 The Press: Just one more question. 373 00:19:38,433 --> 00:19:41,203 So would it be accurate to say then that thousands of American 374 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:45,970 troops are on duty in a country that's led by a guy who is not 375 00:19:45,967 --> 00:19:48,697 credible, not reliable, and running a corrupt government? 376 00:19:48,700 --> 00:19:50,170 Mr. Gibbs: I didn't say that. 377 00:19:50,166 --> 00:19:59,066 I said that we are working with our Afghan partners to ensure 378 00:19:59,066 --> 00:20:02,936 that as we move forward, as I said earlier, 379 00:20:02,934 --> 00:20:10,164 when ultimately we leave there's somebody there that can sustain 380 00:20:10,166 --> 00:20:11,636 the progress that's been made. 381 00:20:11,633 --> 00:20:14,303 Obviously one of the things that has been talked quite a bit 382 00:20:14,300 --> 00:20:19,900 about in the Situation Room meetings is how do we create an 383 00:20:19,900 --> 00:20:23,900 environment that best trains Afghan National Army and Afghan 384 00:20:23,900 --> 00:20:27,400 National Police as part of an Afghan national security force. 385 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:29,730 I'm sure those are conversations that are going to be had, 386 00:20:29,734 --> 00:20:33,034 because like we've seen in other countries, 387 00:20:33,033 --> 00:20:39,063 unless there's a protection and security force there, 388 00:20:39,066 --> 00:20:43,696 it really is not matter what we do if, 389 00:20:43,700 --> 00:20:47,200 when the area is vacated by American troops, 390 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:49,830 the same people that caused trouble that led us to come 391 00:20:49,834 --> 00:20:55,404 there come back because there's no resistance to them doing so. 392 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:58,270 The Press: Following up on Peter's questions, 393 00:20:58,266 --> 00:21:02,766 it seems like the President has some new leverage over Karzai 394 00:21:02,767 --> 00:21:06,967 now to insist on the governance reforms and the other ones 395 00:21:06,967 --> 00:21:11,537 mentioned and he could hold off, delay on his troop decision 396 00:21:11,533 --> 00:21:26,663 until he gets some pledge -- does he have some new leverage 397 00:21:26,667 --> 00:21:30,967 over this to insist on the reforms until he makes a decision? 398 00:21:30,967 --> 00:21:35,467 Mr. Gibbs: Well, I think -- well, 399 00:21:35,467 --> 00:21:38,037 obviously there are a number of decisions that have to be made 400 00:21:38,033 --> 00:21:40,363 before ultimately a troop decision. 401 00:21:40,367 --> 00:21:42,697 But, Roger, understand that what we talked about, 402 00:21:42,700 --> 00:21:45,170 what we've talked about for weeks now, 403 00:21:45,166 --> 00:21:49,996 is you're not -- we're not making a decision about whether 404 00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:53,130 we are leaving Afghanistan. 405 00:21:53,133 --> 00:21:58,063 We currently have 68,000 American forces in addition to I 406 00:21:58,066 --> 00:22:04,066 think probably another 35,000 or 40,000 NATO forces for a pretty 407 00:22:04,066 --> 00:22:05,536 large force there. 408 00:22:05,533 --> 00:22:08,263 And a number of countries throughout the world obviously 409 00:22:08,266 --> 00:22:15,636 have a great interest in these governance issues and the type 410 00:22:15,633 --> 00:22:18,033 of things that have to happen, which is why I mentioned that 411 00:22:18,033 --> 00:22:21,333 some of these discussions have been had even before today. 412 00:22:21,333 --> 00:22:23,003 The Press: But the President could still insist 413 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:25,330 that -- on a commitment. 414 00:22:25,333 --> 00:22:26,763 Mr. Gibbs: Well, look, I think -- I will tell you this. 415 00:22:26,767 --> 00:22:29,737 I don't think anybody -- I don't think anybody sitting and 416 00:22:29,734 --> 00:22:33,534 participating in any of the meetings about a strategy going 417 00:22:33,533 --> 00:22:38,333 forward would tell you that if we don't have a partner that can 418 00:22:38,333 --> 00:22:40,233 do all of the things that I mentioned, 419 00:22:40,233 --> 00:22:42,903 that all the troops in the world are going to make it successful. 420 00:22:42,900 --> 00:22:46,000 I've seen Democrats and Republicans on television say that. 421 00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:50,470 I've seen ambassadors and generals make the very same 422 00:22:50,467 --> 00:22:53,367 point in the meetings that we've had in the Situation Room. 423 00:22:53,367 --> 00:22:56,367 The Press: Can I do a separate quick question? 424 00:22:56,367 --> 00:22:58,697 On the campaign yesterday, the campaign trip yesterday, 425 00:22:58,700 --> 00:23:01,670 roughly how much did it cost yesterday? 426 00:23:01,667 --> 00:23:05,597 And did Corzine pay, or DNC, or -- 427 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:08,670 Mr. Gibbs: I'd have to refer to one of these guys on 428 00:23:08,667 --> 00:23:12,137 reimbursement and what the DNC does on that. 429 00:23:12,133 --> 00:23:13,003 Yes, sir. 430 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:14,830 The Press: You said now that we have -- know who's going to be 431 00:23:14,834 --> 00:23:18,134 the leader of Afghanistan, you can have conversations to ensure 432 00:23:18,133 --> 00:23:19,263 a credible partner. 433 00:23:19,266 --> 00:23:22,566 Do you mean that the President's talks with Hamid Karzai will 434 00:23:22,567 --> 00:23:25,897 figure into his decision about strategy -- 435 00:23:25,900 --> 00:23:28,730 Mr. Gibbs: Well, look, again, I think to assume that you're 436 00:23:28,734 --> 00:23:36,164 going to increase a force there without knowing -- without 437 00:23:36,166 --> 00:23:39,336 having a sense of what that entity is going to do, 438 00:23:39,333 --> 00:23:41,363 of course that plays into it. 439 00:23:45,033 --> 00:23:47,463 Like I said -- let me just repeat what I said to Roger. 440 00:23:47,467 --> 00:23:50,597 There's nobody -- again, there's nobody in the Situation Room, 441 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:54,830 whether they have -- whether they carry an ambassador's 442 00:23:54,834 --> 00:23:57,964 briefcase or a lock bag from the Pentagon, 443 00:23:57,967 --> 00:24:04,537 that would tell you that the partnership and the governance 444 00:24:04,533 --> 00:24:11,363 of Afghanistan doesn't mean -- well, let me say, 445 00:24:11,367 --> 00:24:15,297 nobody would make the point that any strategy could be successful 446 00:24:15,300 --> 00:24:19,530 without successful governance of Afghanistan. 447 00:24:19,533 --> 00:24:24,503 The Press: And given the somewhat less than sterling 448 00:24:24,500 --> 00:24:28,170 governance of Afghanistan, it would seem we're talking about 449 00:24:28,166 --> 00:24:31,396 what John Kerry called last week "good enough governance." 450 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:35,730 Is good enough governance in Afghanistan good enough to put 451 00:24:35,734 --> 00:24:38,234 the lives of American servicemen and women on the line? 452 00:24:38,233 --> 00:24:41,603 Mr. Gibbs: Well, obviously we have national security concerns 453 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:46,400 with ensuring, as I mentioned to Helen, 454 00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:50,500 that the Taliban are not able to create a safe haven that allows 455 00:24:50,500 --> 00:24:55,570 extremists like al Qaeda back into the country to disrupt the 456 00:24:55,567 --> 00:24:58,767 government in Afghanistan and Kabul and plan attacks 457 00:24:58,767 --> 00:25:00,897 on the United States. 458 00:25:00,900 --> 00:25:05,430 But again, I would reiterate simply that there isn't anybody 459 00:25:05,433 --> 00:25:07,333 involved in any of these meetings that wouldn't say that 460 00:25:07,333 --> 00:25:09,733 the situation doesn't have to get better in order for any 461 00:25:09,734 --> 00:25:11,264 strategy to work. 462 00:25:11,266 --> 00:25:15,766 Again, I think it was -- I'll go back and pull a quote from I 463 00:25:15,767 --> 00:25:20,297 think from Senator Graham on "Meet The Press" that said, 464 00:25:20,300 --> 00:25:22,800 you know, we can -- I think I've got this right -- that we could 465 00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:25,930 put a million troops there, but if you don't have a partner 466 00:25:25,934 --> 00:25:30,434 that's working with you, none of that's going to matter. Scott. 467 00:25:30,433 --> 00:25:35,203 The Press: A couple of logistics questions upon where the review is. 468 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:36,330 What happens this week? 469 00:25:36,333 --> 00:25:37,863 Who will the President be meeting with? 470 00:25:37,867 --> 00:25:40,937 Mr. Gibbs: I don't have an update for the week ahead and I 471 00:25:40,934 --> 00:25:43,564 don't know if another meeting this week will be scheduled. 472 00:25:43,567 --> 00:25:46,337 I know -- he mentioned at the end of the last meeting with the 473 00:25:46,333 --> 00:25:48,533 Joint Chiefs that he looked forward to seeing them again, 474 00:25:48,533 --> 00:25:50,603 and I don't know if that's this week or early next. 475 00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:52,770 The Press: Just a quick follow. 476 00:25:52,767 --> 00:25:57,797 Is the U.S. encouraging talks between President Karzai and 477 00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:02,030 Dr. Abdullah on his joining the administration in some capacity? 478 00:26:02,033 --> 00:26:06,833 Mr. Gibbs: Let me get some guidance from our guys in Kabul on that. 479 00:26:06,834 --> 00:26:08,204 The Press: Can you get back to all of us on that? 480 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:09,070 Mr. Gibbs: Yes. 481 00:26:09,066 --> 00:26:10,966 The Press: A couple of questions about the phone call between the 482 00:26:10,967 --> 00:26:12,737 President and President Karzai. 483 00:26:12,734 --> 00:26:13,734 First, when was the last -- 484 00:26:13,734 --> 00:26:15,434 Mr. Gibbs: Keep in mind that it's happening right now and I've -- 485 00:26:15,433 --> 00:26:17,503 The Press: I understand, but when was the last time they 486 00:26:17,500 --> 00:26:20,500 spoke, either by telephone or videoconference -- 487 00:26:20,500 --> 00:26:25,600 Mr. Gibbs: He spoke with both President Karzai, Dr. Abdullah, 488 00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:31,770 and Ambassador Eikenberry the morning that Karzai said he 489 00:26:31,767 --> 00:26:33,767 would participate in the second round. 490 00:26:33,767 --> 00:26:39,437 The Press: Okay. And how would you characterize the conversation 491 00:26:39,433 --> 00:26:42,133 -- realizing it's taking place right now -- this is not, 492 00:26:42,133 --> 00:26:43,303 I assume, a congratulatory - 493 00:26:43,300 --> 00:26:44,300 (laughter) 494 00:26:44,300 --> 00:26:45,330 Mr. Gibbs: This is like the Jeopardy version -- "What is" -- 495 00:26:45,333 --> 00:26:46,503 The Press: No, no, no. 496 00:26:46,500 --> 00:26:50,370 But was the President content to do something more than simply 497 00:26:50,367 --> 00:26:52,867 call President Karzai and congratulate him? 498 00:26:52,867 --> 00:26:55,897 Was this to be a substantive conversation about the 499 00:26:55,900 --> 00:26:58,000 President's decision-making process? 500 00:26:58,000 --> 00:26:59,330 Mr. Gibbs: I don't want to get ahead of the readout. 501 00:26:59,333 --> 00:27:04,363 Let me get a readout on exactly what transpired, 502 00:27:04,367 --> 00:27:05,697 rather than pre-judge. 503 00:27:05,700 --> 00:27:11,070 The Press: Can I ask is he asking specific things of President Karzai -- 504 00:27:11,066 --> 00:27:13,996 Mr. Gibbs: Let me get -- we'll get a readout out shortly to you 505 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:15,700 guys on the call. 506 00:27:15,700 --> 00:27:18,470 The Press: Okay. And then separately on a domestic issue, health care, 507 00:27:18,467 --> 00:27:22,537 a lot of chatter -- I know you addressed this last week -- on 508 00:27:22,533 --> 00:27:25,933 Capitol Hill about the constitutionality of an 509 00:27:25,934 --> 00:27:30,434 individual mandate, with conservatives like Orrin Hatch 510 00:27:30,433 --> 00:27:32,233 I think complaining it's not constitutional. 511 00:27:32,233 --> 00:27:35,633 Have the White House lawyers looked at this issue, 512 00:27:35,633 --> 00:27:38,463 or has this been examined in any way that you know of? 513 00:27:38,467 --> 00:27:39,597 Mr. Gibbs: Not that I know of. 514 00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:41,430 I mean, I don't think it's gotten to the point where 515 00:27:41,433 --> 00:27:43,763 anybody questions the legitimacy of it. 516 00:27:43,767 --> 00:27:46,137 The Press: Well, Orrin Hatch questions the legitimacy. 517 00:27:46,133 --> 00:27:50,633 Mr. Gibbs: Then you should ask him. 518 00:27:50,633 --> 00:27:53,033 The Press: Do you not feel that there's any concern at all about whether 519 00:27:53,033 --> 00:27:58,033 or not it's constitutional for Congress to impose a mandate? 520 00:27:58,033 --> 00:27:59,803 The Press: May or may not be simple to answer -- let me try 521 00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:01,500 it this way. 522 00:28:01,500 --> 00:28:03,770 The timing of the President's decision on troops, 523 00:28:03,767 --> 00:28:08,037 does the disappearance of the runoff hasten it, slow it down, 524 00:28:08,033 --> 00:28:09,633 or have no effect? 525 00:28:09,633 --> 00:28:13,463 Mr. Gibbs: You gave me multiple choice, didn't you? 526 00:28:13,467 --> 00:28:14,667 The Press: And there's also, D, all of the above. 527 00:28:14,667 --> 00:28:15,997 Mr. Gibbs: I may take all of the above, 528 00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:20,900 just further muddle the -- look, obviously we have a sense of now 529 00:28:20,900 --> 00:28:26,500 who will be the leader and who will comprise the government of 530 00:28:26,500 --> 00:28:28,600 Afghanistan going forward. 531 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:32,630 Obviously that's helpful in the discussions that have to be had 532 00:28:32,633 --> 00:28:35,203 and in the strategy that will be set. 533 00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:39,230 But I don't think, as I said in a couple of these responses, 534 00:28:39,233 --> 00:28:46,703 I don't think that was the single question left for a 535 00:28:46,700 --> 00:28:48,030 decision to be made. 536 00:28:48,033 --> 00:28:50,333 That's sort of a roundabout way of saying I still think we're 537 00:28:50,333 --> 00:28:51,963 looking at the next few weeks. 538 00:28:51,967 --> 00:28:53,737 The Press: But it sounds like it has at least taken one 539 00:28:53,734 --> 00:28:54,634 of the elements -- 540 00:28:54,633 --> 00:28:57,033 Mr. Gibbs: There's no question that it illuminates part of the 541 00:28:57,033 --> 00:28:58,963 equation moving forward. 542 00:28:58,967 --> 00:29:03,197 And I don't honestly know that it hastens it. 543 00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:08,700 I think it hastens the work of the discussions that have been 544 00:29:08,700 --> 00:29:12,970 had before this runoff was scheduled, 545 00:29:12,967 --> 00:29:15,497 again with Ambassador Eikenberry and others, 546 00:29:15,500 --> 00:29:20,670 in order to move forward on those very important governance issues. 547 00:29:20,667 --> 00:29:23,897 The Press: On politics, now that the President has had a chance 548 00:29:23,900 --> 00:29:27,500 to campaign a couple of times in both Virginia and New Jersey, 549 00:29:27,500 --> 00:29:29,130 and it's a year since his own election, 550 00:29:29,133 --> 00:29:32,263 what does he think the mood of the voters is? 551 00:29:32,266 --> 00:29:35,696 What did he find the mood of the voters to be when he was out there? 552 00:29:35,700 --> 00:29:36,970 Mr. Gibbs: Fired up and ready to go. 553 00:29:36,967 --> 00:29:41,397 At least that's what they told him, right? 554 00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:45,830 Well, look, I think -- again, we'll have plenty of time to 555 00:29:45,834 --> 00:29:49,634 hash this out, the election results, on Wednesday. 556 00:29:49,633 --> 00:29:51,703 Oh, I'm getting -- don't worry, it's just a big windup. 557 00:29:51,700 --> 00:29:54,670 (laughter) 558 00:29:54,667 --> 00:29:55,737 The Press: Is he going to talk about it -- 559 00:29:55,734 --> 00:29:56,534 Mr. Gibbs: Say again? 560 00:29:56,533 --> 00:29:57,503 The Press: Is he going to talk about it -- 561 00:29:57,500 --> 00:29:58,330 Mr. Gibbs: He may address it. 562 00:29:58,333 --> 00:29:59,333 I honestly don't know. 563 00:29:59,333 --> 00:30:01,033 That's a bit ahead of my guidance. 564 00:30:01,033 --> 00:30:05,963 But, look, I think the President mentioned yesterday in his stops 565 00:30:05,967 --> 00:30:11,197 in New Jersey that obviously there were a series of very 566 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:17,570 difficult challenges that he confronted upon coming into office. 567 00:30:17,567 --> 00:30:19,997 We've spent a decent amount of time here talking about one 568 00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:21,300 today in Afghanistan. 569 00:30:21,300 --> 00:30:26,430 We've alluded to an even bigger one on the economy. 570 00:30:26,433 --> 00:30:36,033 So, look, I don't doubt that he has found that -- in talking to 571 00:30:36,033 --> 00:30:41,433 voters, that we are making progress on getting this economy 572 00:30:41,433 --> 00:30:42,533 turned around again. 573 00:30:42,533 --> 00:30:45,503 But obviously there are still tens of millions of people that 574 00:30:45,500 --> 00:30:47,800 want to work and can't find a job. 575 00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:52,700 That's what the President is focused on continually. 576 00:30:52,700 --> 00:30:57,970 And, look, I would also point to what you heard advisors say over 577 00:30:57,967 --> 00:31:01,237 the weekend, that obviously fascinating developments of 578 00:31:01,233 --> 00:31:06,403 what's going on in New York, where the Republican Party 579 00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:14,830 picked a nominee and then a district known for generally 580 00:31:14,834 --> 00:31:20,004 sending moderate Republicans dating back to the 1800s to 581 00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:27,630 Congress kicked out the moderate and is now foursquare behind -- 582 00:31:27,633 --> 00:31:30,863 or at least part of -- part of the party seems to be foursquare 583 00:31:30,867 --> 00:31:33,437 behind somebody much more conservative. 584 00:31:33,433 --> 00:31:35,163 The Press: Does the President think that's a trend? 585 00:31:35,166 --> 00:31:37,166 Mr. Gibbs: It appears to be. 586 00:31:37,166 --> 00:31:41,266 And I think if you look at what I think is likely to happen next 587 00:31:41,266 --> 00:31:47,496 year, you already have Republicans -- some Republicans 588 00:31:47,500 --> 00:31:51,330 who are more aligned with the very conservative element of 589 00:31:51,333 --> 00:31:55,403 what's happening in New York saying this is a model for what 590 00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:59,370 you'll see throughout the country. 591 00:31:59,367 --> 00:32:03,267 The Press: Robert, you said that no amount of troops in the world could -- 592 00:32:03,266 --> 00:32:05,736 Mr. Gibbs: I think I was paraphrasing Senator Graham saying -- 593 00:32:05,734 --> 00:32:08,964 The Press: But the idea that without successful government -- 594 00:32:08,967 --> 00:32:10,967 governance and the reforms that you want there, 595 00:32:10,967 --> 00:32:14,167 that no military effort can be successful. 596 00:32:14,166 --> 00:32:17,296 What has changed since the election in March to make you 597 00:32:17,300 --> 00:32:20,170 think that those changes are more -- 598 00:32:20,166 --> 00:32:21,196 Mr. Gibbs: The election in March? 599 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:22,530 The Press: I mean the Afghan election, 600 00:32:22,533 --> 00:32:23,633 whenever the -- when was the first Afghan election? 601 00:32:23,633 --> 00:32:25,263 I meant August. 602 00:32:25,266 --> 00:32:29,136 What has changed since then to make you think that the kind of 603 00:32:29,133 --> 00:32:31,903 governance changes you're looking for are more likely to happen? 604 00:32:31,900 --> 00:32:36,900 Mr. Gibbs: Well, Mara, I think that process is ongoing. 605 00:32:36,900 --> 00:32:40,900 I would say I think one of the things that clearly worked in 606 00:32:40,900 --> 00:32:46,100 the August election and in the rulings that led to the 607 00:32:46,100 --> 00:32:51,670 definition of needing a second round was the institutions and 608 00:32:51,667 --> 00:32:53,067 law of Afghanistan. 609 00:32:53,066 --> 00:32:55,496 Understanding, as I said at the very beginning to Ben's 610 00:32:55,500 --> 00:32:58,600 question, we knew this was going to be a difficult process, 611 00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:02,470 an election run fully by the Afghans. 612 00:33:02,467 --> 00:33:08,197 But this was a process through the laws and institutions of the 613 00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:12,030 country which determined that allegations of fraud were true 614 00:33:12,033 --> 00:33:13,733 and threw those ballots out. 615 00:33:13,734 --> 00:33:17,664 Obviously that's the beginning of a process whereby the rule of 616 00:33:17,667 --> 00:33:19,197 law carries the day. 617 00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:25,370 That's I think the beginning of what one needs to see moving forward. 618 00:33:25,367 --> 00:33:27,797 The Press: Karzai's decision to accept a runoff even if one 619 00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:31,570 didn't happen is a sign to you that he would be more willing to 620 00:33:31,567 --> 00:33:33,067 make the changes you're looking for? 621 00:33:33,066 --> 00:33:36,236 Mr. Gibbs: I would say the circumstances that led to the discussion that 622 00:33:36,233 --> 00:33:40,363 a second runoff was necessary is the first part of it. 623 00:33:40,367 --> 00:33:43,967 Obviously it was not a given that he would participate 624 00:33:43,967 --> 00:33:45,267 in a second round. 625 00:33:45,266 --> 00:33:48,736 Through a lot of hard work that happened, 626 00:33:48,734 --> 00:33:52,264 and we were at that point until a little earlier. 627 00:33:52,266 --> 00:33:54,136 The Press: I just have one question about timing on this decision. 628 00:33:54,133 --> 00:33:58,233 Next week the President is leaving for a lengthy trip to Asia. 629 00:33:58,233 --> 00:34:00,063 If the Joint Chiefs come back next week, 630 00:34:00,066 --> 00:34:01,566 you're talking about maybe having that meeting, 631 00:34:01,567 --> 00:34:02,697 how does this all work? 632 00:34:02,700 --> 00:34:05,370 I mean it sounds like a decision realistically couldn't be made 633 00:34:05,367 --> 00:34:06,997 and announced until after he comes back from Asia. 634 00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:08,100 Is that -- 635 00:34:08,100 --> 00:34:13,370 Mr. Gibbs: I don't have any guidance on that except to reiterate 636 00:34:13,367 --> 00:34:15,937 that it will happen in the coming weeks. 637 00:34:15,934 --> 00:34:18,004 The Press: The President's budget director is going to New 638 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:21,830 York tomorrow to talk about the deficit. 639 00:34:21,834 --> 00:34:24,704 I just wanted to get a sense from you guys how much does the 640 00:34:24,700 --> 00:34:28,000 White House consider the deficit to be an ongoing concern, 641 00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:31,770 maybe even a growing concern among Americans going into next 642 00:34:31,767 --> 00:34:35,967 year, even after health care is potentially passed? 643 00:34:35,967 --> 00:34:39,367 How much of the issue do you guys feel like is the fault of 644 00:34:39,367 --> 00:34:40,467 the Bush administration? 645 00:34:40,467 --> 00:34:43,997 And do you still remain committed to cutting the deficit 646 00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:46,330 in half by the end of the first term? 647 00:34:46,333 --> 00:34:49,333 Mr. Gibbs: Let me take these somewhat in reverse order. 648 00:34:49,333 --> 00:34:53,533 In the first -- in the instance of your third part, yes. 649 00:34:53,533 --> 00:34:55,003 The Press: Remain committed -- 650 00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:59,730 Mr. Gibbs: Yes. In terms of health care, obviously the President has been 651 00:34:59,734 --> 00:35:07,664 insistent on health care reform being budget-neutral and cutting 652 00:35:07,667 --> 00:35:12,267 health care costs in the out-years of which the plans 653 00:35:12,266 --> 00:35:14,236 that have been scored do that. 654 00:35:14,233 --> 00:35:20,133 So I would mention that partly -- I think the budget deficit, 655 00:35:20,133 --> 00:35:23,533 if you talk to anybody that's followed the issue for the past 656 00:35:23,533 --> 00:35:28,803 five or six years, this isn't an issue that started this year. 657 00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:35,830 This has been an issue that's been ongoing in terms of our 658 00:35:35,834 --> 00:35:40,464 ability to continue to spend more and more than we take in 659 00:35:40,467 --> 00:35:42,997 each month or each year. 660 00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:49,470 Obviously this is a problem that the President discussed in the 661 00:35:49,467 --> 00:35:52,837 election and one that obviously has to be addressed. 662 00:35:52,834 --> 00:35:58,134 We can't continue to do what we've done. 663 00:35:58,133 --> 00:36:03,163 I think if you look at -- the President signed last week a 664 00:36:03,166 --> 00:36:08,896 defense bill that zeroed out a number of weapons systems, 665 00:36:08,900 --> 00:36:13,830 which hasn't always been the case in this town -- weapons 666 00:36:13,834 --> 00:36:17,104 systems the Pentagon said they didn't need. 667 00:36:17,100 --> 00:36:23,430 Usually that doesn't mean much and the prerogatives of the 668 00:36:23,433 --> 00:36:26,233 individual weapons systems carry the day. 669 00:36:26,233 --> 00:36:31,603 A lot of people told us we were crazy to even go down that path, 670 00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:34,200 but I don't think you're going to make significant progress on 671 00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:36,870 the deficit if you don't at least start with the fact that 672 00:36:36,867 --> 00:36:39,667 the President -- or the Pentagon has said they don't want a 673 00:36:39,667 --> 00:36:42,397 weapons system, yet you continue to fund it. 674 00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:44,300 The Press: Can you refresh our memory also on the President's 675 00:36:44,300 --> 00:36:48,630 position on like a bipartisan BRAC-type commission on -- 676 00:36:48,633 --> 00:36:51,263 Mr. Gibbs: You know, I saw the comments. 677 00:36:51,266 --> 00:36:54,636 I would point you to the comments that Peter made in the 678 00:36:54,633 --> 00:36:59,733 Sunday paper, where I think he said something like that 679 00:36:59,734 --> 00:37:01,504 would be looked at. 680 00:37:01,500 --> 00:37:02,270 The Press: Robert. 681 00:37:02,266 --> 00:37:03,696 Mr. Gibbs: Yes, sir. 682 00:37:03,700 --> 00:37:05,430 The Press: One important one-year anniversary coming up 683 00:37:05,433 --> 00:37:07,233 on Wednesday. 684 00:37:07,233 --> 00:37:09,703 What do you think the President has changed in the way 685 00:37:09,700 --> 00:37:11,570 Washington works since -- 686 00:37:11,567 --> 00:37:13,497 Mr. Gibbs: Well, I've noticed all of you all, 687 00:37:13,500 --> 00:37:17,070 despite not doing many stories in the beginning of September 688 00:37:17,066 --> 00:37:20,166 about a change in a 200-year policy of letting you know who 689 00:37:20,166 --> 00:37:22,536 comes into this White House, I did notice you guys were all 690 00:37:22,533 --> 00:37:24,103 very busy on Friday night. 691 00:37:24,100 --> 00:37:25,070 The Press: That's an answer? 692 00:37:25,066 --> 00:37:27,366 (laughter) 693 00:37:27,367 --> 00:37:29,367 The Press: What does the President feel needs to be done 694 00:37:29,367 --> 00:37:30,967 in this regard? 695 00:37:30,967 --> 00:37:31,997 Mr. Gibbs: I'm sorry, needs to be? 696 00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:33,230 The Press: Needs to be done in this regard. 697 00:37:33,233 --> 00:37:36,503 Mr. Gibbs: Well, look, I think the President would continue to 698 00:37:36,500 --> 00:37:41,630 tell you -- I think we've certainly seen in health care 699 00:37:41,633 --> 00:37:47,263 that change isn't easy, especially when special 700 00:37:47,266 --> 00:37:51,896 interests get involved, particularly in the way they've 701 00:37:51,900 --> 00:37:55,370 done in the last few weeks with the insurance industry. 702 00:37:55,367 --> 00:38:02,967 I think that's a pretty telltale sign that change is not a given. 703 00:38:02,967 --> 00:38:05,697 It's got to be worked at and it's going to be hard, 704 00:38:05,700 --> 00:38:08,900 and that's what the President is working on each and every day. 705 00:38:08,900 --> 00:38:11,070 The Press: Are you anticipating election activity tomorrow in terms of 706 00:38:11,066 --> 00:38:13,166 phone calls, attempts to get out the vote, 707 00:38:13,166 --> 00:38:14,336 and things of that nature? 708 00:38:14,333 --> 00:38:15,333 Mr. Gibbs: None that I know of now, 709 00:38:15,333 --> 00:38:18,763 but I can certainly -- I can check on -- 710 00:38:18,767 --> 00:38:22,497 The Press: Can you provide all the phone calls that he recorded 711 00:38:22,500 --> 00:38:24,430 for get out the vote? 712 00:38:24,433 --> 00:38:25,263 Mr. Gibbs: Let me see what I can -- 713 00:38:25,266 --> 00:38:26,096 The Press: And where? 714 00:38:26,100 --> 00:38:26,900 Mr. Gibbs: Yes. 715 00:38:26,900 --> 00:38:29,100 The Press: Robert, in light of the changes in Afghanistan, 716 00:38:29,100 --> 00:38:32,630 if a clear majority of the American public tell the White 717 00:38:32,633 --> 00:38:35,303 House, tell the President they don't want to send more troops 718 00:38:35,300 --> 00:38:37,570 to Afghanistan, does the President have an obligation to 719 00:38:37,567 --> 00:38:41,237 listen to the American public or to follow his own dictates? 720 00:38:41,233 --> 00:38:43,303 Mr. Gibbs: Well, the President has an obligation as 721 00:38:43,300 --> 00:38:47,430 Commander-in-Chief to make the very best decision in order to 722 00:38:47,433 --> 00:38:53,563 protect our national interest and to protect American citizens 723 00:38:53,567 --> 00:38:57,667 here as well as the troops we have on the ground. 724 00:38:57,667 --> 00:39:00,467 The President would expect that whatever decision he made, 725 00:39:00,467 --> 00:39:04,937 as I've talked about last week, he would walk the American 726 00:39:04,934 --> 00:39:08,434 people through the reasoning of why that decision was made, 727 00:39:08,433 --> 00:39:11,633 and the interest that he saw that had to be protected in 728 00:39:11,633 --> 00:39:15,203 whatever the outcome of that decision was. 729 00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:19,030 And I expect that that will take place once a decision is made 730 00:39:19,033 --> 00:39:20,233 and ultimately announced. 731 00:39:20,233 --> 00:39:22,733 The Press: -- the situation in the Vietnam War -- you were too 732 00:39:22,734 --> 00:39:25,104 young to remember that -- where a clear majority, 733 00:39:25,100 --> 00:39:27,700 voting majority of the American people were -- rebelled against 734 00:39:27,700 --> 00:39:31,830 the Vietnam War, and it brought down the Johnson administration. 735 00:39:31,834 --> 00:39:34,504 Is this President prepared to go that route? 736 00:39:34,500 --> 00:39:39,100 Mr. Gibbs: I hesitate to make those type of analogies. 737 00:39:39,100 --> 00:39:43,700 I think the President, again, will make the decision that he 738 00:39:43,700 --> 00:39:47,100 believes is best in our national interests, 739 00:39:47,100 --> 00:39:49,970 and I think that's the process that's ongoing. 740 00:39:49,967 --> 00:39:50,667 April. 741 00:39:50,667 --> 00:39:52,797 The Press: Robert, on the issue of jobs and the economy, 742 00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:56,130 this administration continues to push the green jobs initiative, 743 00:39:56,133 --> 00:39:58,863 an initiative they are particularly hoping that the 744 00:39:58,867 --> 00:40:02,897 black and brown communities of this country would take part of 745 00:40:02,900 --> 00:40:05,800 because it's a cyclical thing, from what I'm understanding. 746 00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:09,130 At the same time, we're hearing from the Hill that blacks and 747 00:40:09,133 --> 00:40:13,033 browns are not engaging in the green jobs initiative, 748 00:40:13,033 --> 00:40:15,933 as this administration thought or hoped. 749 00:40:15,934 --> 00:40:20,304 How is this administration planning to go out to make more 750 00:40:20,300 --> 00:40:23,670 of an outreach into a black and brown community for this initiative? 751 00:40:23,667 --> 00:40:25,167 Mr. Gibbs: I'm not dodging this, April, 752 00:40:25,166 --> 00:40:29,266 but I just -- I don't know what you mean in terms of what you're 753 00:40:29,266 --> 00:40:30,696 hearing from the Hill. I just -- 754 00:40:30,700 --> 00:40:33,230 The Press: Okay, for instance, the head of the Government 755 00:40:33,233 --> 00:40:34,863 Oversight and Reform Committee, Ed Towns, 756 00:40:34,867 --> 00:40:39,137 has said that black and browns are not engaging in this green 757 00:40:39,133 --> 00:40:40,103 initiative jobs -- 758 00:40:40,100 --> 00:40:41,270 Mr. Gibbs: I'd be happy to look at what he said, 759 00:40:41,266 --> 00:40:43,966 and try to come up with something, but I haven't -- 760 00:40:43,967 --> 00:40:46,467 The Press: Is it important that this community does engage -- 761 00:40:46,467 --> 00:40:49,397 Mr. Gibbs: Look, I think it's important that this community and every 762 00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:55,970 community take part in this important idea because 763 00:40:55,967 --> 00:40:58,367 creating jobs in a clean energy economy and creating a 764 00:40:58,367 --> 00:41:03,897 marketplace that incentivizes that job growth is important not 765 00:41:03,900 --> 00:41:08,470 simply for the extremely important idea of getting 766 00:41:08,467 --> 00:41:12,337 millions of people that want to work back to work in industries 767 00:41:12,333 --> 00:41:17,503 that are headquartered here, manufacturing products like wind 768 00:41:17,500 --> 00:41:20,330 turbines or solar panels. 769 00:41:20,333 --> 00:41:27,133 But this also impacts the steps that we're taking to wean 770 00:41:27,133 --> 00:41:29,863 ourselves off our dependence on foreign oil, 771 00:41:29,867 --> 00:41:35,197 which means progress as it relates to greenhouse gases 772 00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:36,230 and climate change. 773 00:41:36,233 --> 00:41:39,163 But it also impacts our national security. 774 00:41:39,166 --> 00:41:42,396 All of that is what makes green jobs so important. 775 00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:44,430 The Press: -- more of a demand, I mean, because people are saying the 776 00:41:44,433 --> 00:41:46,663 demand is not there right now for -- 777 00:41:46,667 --> 00:41:49,237 Mr. Gibbs: I think -- look, I think last week's trip was a 778 00:41:49,233 --> 00:41:51,333 very good example. 779 00:41:51,333 --> 00:41:58,333 You had Florida Power & Light, the largest -- the power company 780 00:41:58,333 --> 00:42:01,663 -- the largest power company in the state of Florida -- one of 781 00:42:01,667 --> 00:42:05,367 the biggest states in the country -- investing heavily as 782 00:42:05,367 --> 00:42:11,597 a result of the Recovery Act in a solar plant and clean energy 783 00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:15,270 projects that they know will produce jobs for the future, 784 00:42:15,266 --> 00:42:17,566 but also produce clean energy. 785 00:42:17,567 --> 00:42:21,237 And certainly as we get into a longer legislative debate on 786 00:42:21,233 --> 00:42:26,803 climate change, just in my conversations with the CEO, 787 00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:33,630 he talked about the notion of if you actually price greenhouse 788 00:42:33,633 --> 00:42:39,333 gas emissions into the production of power, 789 00:42:39,333 --> 00:42:42,733 you have a powerful incentive to find clean energy alternatives. 790 00:42:42,734 --> 00:42:44,104 David. 791 00:42:44,100 --> 00:42:48,270 The Press: You've said a few times that the laws and institutions 792 00:42:48,266 --> 00:42:50,666 in Afghanistan prevailed. 793 00:42:50,667 --> 00:42:53,667 But Abdullah Abdullah said that he pulled out in part -- maybe 794 00:42:53,667 --> 00:42:55,697 he had personal reasons -- because he expected there 795 00:42:55,700 --> 00:42:57,630 to be massive fraud. 796 00:42:57,633 --> 00:43:01,433 So there seems to be a little bit of a disconnect between 797 00:43:01,433 --> 00:43:04,503 saying in essence the system worked and Abdullah Abdullah 798 00:43:04,500 --> 00:43:07,070 saying the system can't work. 799 00:43:07,066 --> 00:43:10,766 Mr. Gibbs: Well, David, I can't render a judgment on what he predicted 800 00:43:10,767 --> 00:43:14,797 might happen in an election that will now not take place. 801 00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:19,330 I mean, that seems -- trust me, I don't have that kind of 802 00:43:19,333 --> 00:43:20,733 clarity and crystal ball. 803 00:43:20,734 --> 00:43:23,364 The Press: There are elections coming up, supposed to come up next year 804 00:43:23,367 --> 00:43:26,567 in 2010, for district councils and the parliament, I believe. 805 00:43:26,567 --> 00:43:30,197 I mean, do you have more confidence now that those 806 00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:34,630 elections can be free and fair and that the public will see the 807 00:43:34,633 --> 00:43:37,163 government as credible? 808 00:43:37,166 --> 00:43:39,736 Mr. Gibbs: I do and I think others do because, David, 809 00:43:39,734 --> 00:43:45,264 for the exact reason why a second round was called to begin with. 810 00:43:45,266 --> 00:43:47,966 There was alleged fraud. 811 00:43:47,967 --> 00:43:54,237 The fraud was investigated over a many-week period of time. 812 00:43:54,233 --> 00:43:58,233 Two commissions determined that a series of votes -- a big chunk 813 00:43:58,233 --> 00:43:59,633 of votes were fraudulent. 814 00:43:59,633 --> 00:44:02,103 They were thrown out, which required the sitting President 815 00:44:02,100 --> 00:44:05,370 to have to go through a second round. 816 00:44:05,367 --> 00:44:08,137 I think that demonstrates that the laws and institutions of 817 00:44:08,133 --> 00:44:09,503 Afghanistan worked. 818 00:44:09,500 --> 00:44:11,770 The Press: Well, you know, finding fraud is different than 819 00:44:11,767 --> 00:44:13,467 getting rid of fraud. 820 00:44:13,467 --> 00:44:17,067 And so if Abdullah Abdullah and his criticisms are being taken 821 00:44:17,066 --> 00:44:21,136 seriously -- he's saying, yes, fraud was found and dealt with, 822 00:44:21,133 --> 00:44:24,303 or at least recognized, but we haven't taken it out of the system. 823 00:44:24,300 --> 00:44:26,830 You can't have it -- this doesn't prove that we can have 824 00:44:26,834 --> 00:44:28,234 an election without fraud. 825 00:44:28,233 --> 00:44:32,463 Mr. Gibbs: Well, look, again, I said this process we knew all 826 00:44:32,467 --> 00:44:34,367 along was not going to be an easy one. 827 00:44:34,367 --> 00:44:36,737 It would be a difficult one. 828 00:44:36,734 --> 00:44:40,004 But again, David, it's sort of -- it's hard to evaluate what 829 00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:44,500 might have happened in an election that didn't take place. 830 00:44:44,500 --> 00:44:50,970 Obviously some steps were taken to ensure that the next round 831 00:44:50,967 --> 00:44:55,397 was done in a way that produced a legitimate government. 832 00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:57,530 We believe it would have. 833 00:44:57,533 --> 00:45:03,133 Dr. Abdullah decided not to participate; 834 00:45:03,133 --> 00:45:06,433 therefore the only candidate in the race was President Karzai. 835 00:45:06,433 --> 00:45:08,463 He was ruled the winner today. 836 00:45:08,467 --> 00:45:09,597 Thanks, guys.