Template talk:Regions of France

Mixed French and English

Hi, why do some region names appear in English rather than in French? I see Corsica, French Guiana, Wallis and Futuna... What does it depend on? Existence of the category? --Eusebius (talk) 19:10, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Yes, this is the name of the category that determines the displayed names (at least when all=1 is used, to make the distinction visible when both pages exist, with one being a redirect to the first one).

When all=1 is not used, given that only one name will be visible (when it exists), we could support the auto-translation of the displayed name. For now this template is not internationalized, it just indicates how the existing categories are actually named. verdy_p (talk) 15:51, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

Note that the template is now fully internationalized (in the sandbox which is rebuilt in Lua using Module:Countries). Translation of linked labels should come from Wikidata. But a few titles still need to be translated separately in the data Module:Regions of France/sandbox, from which it can be synchronized to Module:Regions of France (translations to do are grouped the top of the data module).

That new version is smarter (for determining automatically the content that does not need to be displayed such as separators and static titles before items, or even the whole navbox) because it uses conditional subpatterns instead of a static pattern (which was the only possibility with the initial version of Module:Countries which was only initially made for displaying lists of countries). This data format used in Module:Regions of France is documented in Module:Countries, and explained in Module talk:Countries) where this module can generalize a lot of legacy navbox templates showing lists of items, possibly rendered in several groups or sections.

The sandbox version of the template uses this new version, but still not the normal version which is less flexible (but is blocked to all editors since years). verdy_p (talk) 14:10, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

Name both in French and English

Could someone remove Guyane française as French Guiana appears already in the list. Badzil (talk) 20:50, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

This as for legacy reasons. Most categories have not been renamed; most of them were in French (all departments and metropolitican regions), but not overseas because they were also listed in the list per country (they also have an ISO 3166 entry, in addition to France itself) where the naming convention was in English only.

The case of Corsica is special: it had already a lot of categories using the name "Corsica" and not "Corse", probably because it is also the name of the region in Corsican, while the official French name is still "Corse". Regionalists did not want to use "Corse" and preferred the Corsican and English name.

If one wants to rename Corsica to Corse, categories will have to be redirected (to maintain lots of foreign links, because they are updated on various wikis referencing the category and its related subcategories). verdy_p (talk) 15:29, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

Note that before this template was used, there was absolutely no consistant naming convention. I created it to make it consistant, and this explains the tests for some variants (the first name tested, when not using the "all=" attribute, is the preferred one, and it must not be a redirecting category).

Suggestion

Please add Category:Categories of France by region when switch = all so that all root categories are taken in the respective category: now, there are only 31 cats manually added out of the 1670. --Foroa (talk) 07:08, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

No. Don't do that. The switch "all=" is only used as a debugging tool to find existing categories (possibly under alternate names that are tested with one needing a redirection to the canonical one) and help creating missing ones. Its purpose is temporary, and tt is not intended to be used once the parent category (containing the subcetagory for all regions) has been maintained, becauseit will leave many red links to categories that should be renamed, or redirected or deleted. It was added to help regularizing the naming convention.

The "all=1" parameter can be readded at anytime temporarily, when one needs to add a missing regional catagory or when trying to fix the missing redirects for the non-canonical name (the "all=1" parameter removes all existence tests and will display apparent duplicate category names).

So the same template could be used with exactly the same parameters in the parent category "by region" (all existing regions), and the child category (specific to a region) where it is used to navigate from a regional subcategory to sister categories for other regions.

If what you want is to automate the inclusion of the parent "by region" category in the "Category:Categoies by region", we would need another optional parameter such as "parent=1". There's no real need for that, because it is just simpler to edit the parent (national) category directly rather than editing the template (which would also require editing all parent (national) "XXXX by region" categories).

Since the begining, this template has never been autocategorizing the pages where it was used (it was initially impossible to do due to naming inconsistancies).

The "Template: Departments of France" behaves exactly the same way.

Note that if you intend to change one canonical name to another, you'll need to rename all categories related to a renamed region. And make the old name a redirecting category, and change the order of tests for existence (the first tested name must be the preferred one: with the all=1 parameter you can do these changes without loosing the links).

Hope this helps. verdy_p (talk) 15:29, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

Centre-Val de Loire

The region Centre was renamed to Centre-Val de Loire in January 1st 2015, so I suppose the template needs to be updated to at least show the correct name. Cycn (talk) 16:00, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

This template has been blocked against edits since years.

However an updated version for this new region since 2015 is ready since long, and also incorporated all changes that were known in 2015.

In mid-2015, it was already prepared to support the new futrure regions when we knew what they would be. These new regions became effective in January 2016 (Centre-Val de Loire did not change at that date, it was just a new name already effective since 2015).

Recently it was updated to contain the new official names replacing the temporary ones for some of the new regions (some new regions have kept their temporary name). It is in the Template:Regions of France/sandbox version (which is now used in the major categories by regions).

I really ask updating the Template:Regions of France code with the code now in Template:Regions of France/sandbox (fully tested and already effective, it is testing names and will display the official names, and will link preferably to pages with the official names but will still find pages that were still not renamed with the official names). verdy_p (talk) 08:00, 4 October 2016 (UTC)

@Verdy p: Thank you for all your work on this. Per Commons:Bots/Work requests#Replacing_Template:Regions_of_France.2Fsandbox_by_Template:Regions_of_France, Template:Regions of France has been replaced by the contents of Template:Regions of France/sandbox, so everyone please use Template:Regions of France directly, and stop using Template:Regions of France/sandbox. Thank you.   — Jeff G. ツ 12:08, 30 May 2017 (UTC)

At least ! Nearly two years have past since my initial request. So please stop yourself ordering me to "stop using" the sandbox (because there was absolutely no emergency for stopping using it and because all its current uses can be now automatically substituted with the non sandbox version). I don't understnad why it took so long (my initial request was discussed since long and nobody found any problem in my sandbox version; which was only updated to take into account the new region names when thye were finalized (after the initial preparation period where the new regions had official but temporary names), but everything was ready.

Later this version may be updated to keep only the new region names, but they are still contested politically and adminsitratively in courts, and former regions are still widely used and needed for many historic reasons and because most open documents in Commons are still referencing the former regions and actually not the new ones except in cases that are still exceptional). I think the second sublist of former regions will remain for several years, possibly more (I bet they will remain in usage for more than 10 years, the new regions are still not very accepted politically in France, they came from a quite arbitrary decision when former regions or departments had different point of views; and anyway the territorial reforms in France are not finished, the new regions may still be temporary and will probably not last as long as the former regions that are known since centuries even if they were formalized at end of WW2, and got an autonomous status only in the 1980's with the first regional elections). Only the reunification of Normandie was claimed since long and accepted by the population, all other new regions have severe political/cultural and administratrive problems. verdy_p (talk) 01:12, 31 May 2017 (UTC)