File talk:Square rigged sail parts and running rigging.jpg

Corrections needed?

Criwright has suggested that some of the rigging in this image are mis-labeled. It would help to have a reliable source to assure correct labeling. I'll await direction to such a source, here. HopsonRoad (talk) 20:16, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

Hi Criwright, it appears that the top three yard arms are attached to the topmast and topgallant by sliding rings. If there are halyards directly attached to those rings, they're not readily visible in the image. It appears that the lines that are labeled "halyard" currently are not attached to the clews on the main yard, but to the yard arm, although the same line on the topsail yard appears to be attached to the clew on the topgallant sail. Perhaps, with your experience, we can work all this out. I can change the labeling on the image, once we agree. Cheers, HopsonRoad (talk) 16:33, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

Alternate theory on halyards

Hi Criwright, I notice a line leading from a sheave in two places: 1) behind the crosstrees that connect the topgallant mast to the topmast and 2) behind the connection point of the ratlines on the topgallant mast. Both lead to a block (one for each) that has a line running down to either rail (apparently). Could these be the halyards for the topsail yard and the topgallant yard? Cheers, HopsonRoad (talk) 18:09, 2 April 2017 (UTC)

Hi HopsonRoad, Sorry to have vanished there a bit, been somewhat preoccupied with rigging my own sailing dinghy and tax season... I'll have to go have look at the high res version of your image to see what specific lines we're talking about.

Meanwhile, as requested, I have found a good reference for you. As I'd thought, most anything about Halyards (or Halliards as he prefers to spell it) can be found here: Underhill, Harold A. (1972) Masting & Rigging the Clipper Ship & Ocean Carrier, Glasgow: Brown, Son & Ferguson, pp. 148−156 ISBN: 0851741738.

The plate (No. 29) on page 156 may be of particular value as it gives a side view of the arrangement of chains, lines and cable as they pass through the mast to raise yards. Subsequent pages also contain extensive information about the other lines in your diagram - possibly more than is desired. I have a copy of the book here, and could possibly send you an image of the plate, though I suspect that copyright prevents me sharing it with you here. It's also an interesting little book to have, if you can find a good copy. I don't know why my original published date doesn't appear in that citation, but it was 1946. No source I find knows when Underhill died. Is there a fair use area where something can be viewed but not truly published? Another thing I know little about in Wiki terms, sorry. --Crwright (talk) 15:39, 11 April 2017 (UTC)

Hello again - had a chance to go scrutinize the image. Yes - what you see there are the Halyards running through sheaves in the masts. The large blocks you see generally have a chain or wire rope leading through the mast down to the center of the yard at the parrel bucket/gate. The block itself will have a line or wire rope (or some combination thereof) leading down to deck at the rails on either side of the mast. One end of that will be shackled to a pad eye on deck, the other usually ends in some sort of purchase system, which may depend on the ship (and whether crew alone or with the help of machinery will be raising the yards). Generally the halyards will alternate port and starboard as you go up the sail stack (port for fore upper tops'l halyard, starboard for t'gallant, port for royal) - and that arrangement will typically be inverted from one mast to the next. (starboard for main upper tops'l yard, port for fore upper tops'l yard...) --Crwright (talk) 16:51, 11 April 2017 (UTC)

Thanks, Crwright! I'll re-label the image and upload it in the near future. Cheers, HopsonRoad (talk) 17:31, 11 April 2017 (UTC)

Done. Please check to make sure that all is in order, Crwright. Cheers, HopsonRoad (talk) 21:33, 11 April 2017 (UTC)

Looks good to me, HopsonRoad - particularly in light of the wild criss-cossing of lines you must account for in that image. The only thing I noticed is that you might have space to label the halyard, if you wanted to - though it's a little tricky to figure out where best to do that (and make it clear what you are indicating). If you'd like any help with the graphic end of that, I do have Photoshop and Illustrator at my disposal, and could probably align your labels so that they parallel the lines to which they refer fairly easily - if you think it would help to clarify anything. Nicely done. --Crwright (talk) 04:02, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for the expertise and encouragement, Crwright. I do have the file in *.psd format, but I can't upload it that way to Wikimedia. I could get it to you somehow, via DropBox. Then you could probably do better than I have done. Alternatively, you could start anew from the source file. Cheers, HopsonRoad (talk) 10:54, 27 April 2017 (UTC)