File talk:Interview Aaron Saxton part 7 of 7.ogv

Transcript

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Aaron: The difference in the Sea Org is that they DO want that priest to imprison your mind. We DO want control and compliance. We DO want you to go to this penal colony. We DO want to assign you conditions. We DO want to put a head on a pike each week and RPF somebody and hurt them. We DO - this is our policy. And they're lying because the church the Catholic church says 'this is the bible, it's happy if you preach the bible'. But in scientology, the creed, you may NOT apply the creed, and you may not apply the tech when you're a member of the Sea Org. You cannot because the policies clearly contradict everything that scientology stands for. And THAT is a fraud. It's a lie. And the fact that you can have these people do this to other human beings and not consider consequence, like I did, is proof enough that there's something intrinsically and wrong and the systemic creation of the organisation in the first place.

Carmel: Got it.

Aaron: How could I do these things? How could I ask a woman to kill an unborn baby? How could I take this woman and send her away from her child and send her to Europe for two years and not allow any phone calls back to their family? How did I take all these people in the whole Guarantee Building and tell them family time is canceled because you're a down statistic? This is the very church that preaches family values? That breathes, that talks about creation of a great society? Oh, I'm sorry, you must be you must be talking about something else 'cause I haven't seen it. And every Sea Org member I, I know a great idea right now - get every Sea Org member in the world right now to do an affidavit about how they feel about it, go check on them in ten years. I guarantee you 80% of them will have left and have been declared.

Carmel: Yep.

Aaron: I guarantee it. I'll stake my life on it. I was one of those. "Cause I would have fought you 'til the hell(?) come home. I disconnected even from my own family to be the best messenger I could be. I sent my own brother to the rehabilitation force, into the penal colony for having thoughts and for having touched a woman. Now, if that's not a monster then please tell me what is?

Carmel: Got it. Hey thanks matey.

Aaron: Thanks for listening. Not a lot of people do.

Carmel: Nope. Good to have the info.

Aaron: I'd like some other people to come forward. I'd like some other people that were in positions similar to mine to admit that we just weren't victims, we did things. We did ask for those things to be done to other staff and we did them.

Carmel: Got it.

Aaron: And be responsible for their actions. Even if it means admitting that they were monsters. Because deep down none of us were. We thought we were doing something right.

Carmel: And you were a part of that machine.

Aaron: Yeah...

Carmel: Created by the machine.

Aaron: I was created by the machine and then I went off to create more. And I'm really sorry to those people that I got in there and I created them. Because I've run into a couple, and this is after I'd left, and I'm saddened to see how they've turned out as human beings. Because there's almost nothing human left in them. It's just almost nothing there, just compliance and it's like a 24-hour police officer with no, with no heart. And, stay there too long and I don't know how I still haven't been rehabilitated - I still have trouble, I still have nightmares, I still think about things that happened there. I have dreams of being dominated and dominating. And I still have that switch in my mind I can turn off and I want it to go. I don't like being like that.

Carmel: Mmm..

Aaron: Y'know I want my emotions to be real. It's really hard to have real emotions when they are forbidden for six years.

Carmel: Yeah especially at that time. When you were so young, fifteen to twenty-two or something...

Aaron: Those were my formative years as a human being. It's where, it's where humans find out what they want to do in life and go off and explore and start careers. But, my career was to hurt you. And I enjoyed it. And I'm sickened that I did. But back then I wasn't but now it's really hard to reconcile that other human being I see in my dreams or sometimes coming out in an argument or a debate with some other person. He just jumps out there and I'll look at him going uh 'Aaron how could you look at yourself and think of yourself as two people - you're clearly the same person.' The question I've got for myself is 'am I a good person that went bad or was I always just a bad bastard that just was given the chance to be even worse?' Which one is it? And if I'm even asking myself the question then I need help. And I'm not the only one out there having that same question. Y'know? Marty and Mike, Tom DeVocht - I know we had good times in the Sea Org. I worked with these people, we had great times, we had fun. But take a step back and look at what you did. You created an atmosphere of fear and loathing and, and family separations and you destroyed all family values and, and all those things that make us human, that got us to this great part of life that we know - artistic, singing, loving, dancing, music - all these things that make us human we, we, we stripped them from people around us and we made it ok to be less than human. I need, I need those people to come forward and talk and admit that it's ok to talk about it. It's not ok you ever did it, nothing will ever make it ok, pal - sorry, nothing ever will. If you can't live with that then I suggest you reflect on yourself and ask yourself 'what is a human being? What is a conscience? And what is morality, really?'

Carmel: Mmm..

Aaron: There's an answer there. You might not, you might have, you might have a, a couple of tears shed when you find out you shouldn't have done these things. And you'll have an even bigger tear when you find out that you enjoyed it. And you might look at yourself and want to kill yourself for it. And end your life because of what you put other people through. You don't have to do (7:11), you just have to stop and (7:12) down to others now. So step forward, talk. If you lose your, if you're a scientologist and you're in good standing, and you have the potential to lose them, understand one thing: the Sea Org is promising heaven, when in reality we're all going to hell according to them. And all of you are meant to be there (7:32). If you have to disconnect now, to make your stand and be heard, then do it. One day, down the road, your friends will come and join you 'cause they're all on the same side of the fence - it's just someone else telling you that we're not.

Carmel: Got it. Hey mate, thanks for your honesty.

Aaron: Alright, thank you.

Carmel: Cheers.